NBA Playoffs 2019 - Kawhi So Serious?!

[Jaime L]

1 hour ago, David Selig said:

Fouls are part of the game, and the ability to draw fouls has been a key part of the skill set of most elite scorers since Mikan's days. And the vast majority of the calls he gets are legit under current rules. Is it annoying and ugly to watch? Also, his effective field goal percentage in the last two seasons (scoring efficiency without FTs taken into account) has been 54.1%, which is above the league average and fantastic for his usage rate, especially considering that the almost all of his shots are unassisted.

As for defense, I think his effort level this season has been pretty good, especially once Paul and Capela came back and he didn't have to score 40 in every game to keep the offense afloat. His defensive stats show him as an average defender for his position, which given his offensive load is not bad at all. His ability to defend almost anyone in the post is huge for the Rockets' switching defense. The Rockets in the second half of both this and last season were an elite defense with him playing 38 MPG and they have hold their own on this end against GSW's superteam in 2 straight postseasons. His advanced defensive stats this season are solid too. He's not as good as the superstar SFs on this end, but offensively only LeBron is anywhere near him.

Yes, he's not among my favorite players to watch -- the leg kick thing on 3's remains total bullshit -- but I can only respect how good he's become. Dude's like a basketball genius. He's taken another leap since he first entered the MVP conversation a couple years ago vs. Westbrook. He went from being a Nash level assists guy to a Jordan level scorer all based on what his team most needed him to be. There's not a lot of transcendent beauty to his game, beyond the occasional absurd step back 3, but his efficiency is ruthless. I'd argue the team around him has declined. Capela and Paul certainly have, but his reaching another level has offset it. His improvement defensively is part of it. 

And yes I've noticed GS hasn't been able to really attack him on defense. Hell, sometimes he's the one manning up Durant. The guy holds his own. 

Could you imagine if he and Durant were ever on the same team? 

[IamMe90]

On 5/6/2019 at 8:28 PM, Triskele said:

That is odd!

Dang, have the deer vaulted back into being favorites in the East?  And Brogdon would potentially return at some point.  

Maybe Kyrie has only one game remaining as a Celtic.  

Honest question, when have they not been the favorites, other than overreactions to one game? 

[DanteGabriel]

6 hours ago, Rhom said:

Listening to Stephen A. show today, they played a clip of Jalen Rose talking about the Celtics.  Basically, he argued that pre Kyrie, the Celtics played a space and shoot style where they passed the ball and whoever was open shot.  He pointed out that Al Horford at center was their assist leader the year before Kyrie got there.  Then you bring in a ball dominant guard who has to have the ball in his hands to be effective and it messed everything up.

Then Stephen A went off on a rant about how their chemistry got screwed up because they put Gordon Heyward into the starting line-up at the start of the season even though he wasn't ready to be back yet and it killed the confidence of Jalen Brown/Jayson Tatum and caused them to resent the situation.  All downhill ever since.

I usually don't like his rants, but its hard for me to poke holes in either of those scenarios.

I don't think Kyrie has changed the play style that much, since IT at his King in the Fourth peak was a ball dominant guard. Kyrie has mostly done fine as a facilitator. That's not my complaint.

I'm tired of his shitty attitude where he simultaneously courts attention and then acts resentful for getting asked questions by the media. He whines about guys like Tatum and Brown, who yes do dumb young player things. I've never believed in bitching about teammates to the press. I think you praise your teammates in public and yell at them in private. I didn't like it when Brady bawled out his young receivers on the sideline, and I lost a lot of respect for him then. So yeah, I think Kyrie's public wavering on his commitment and his criticism of teammates infected the locker room.

Maybe they didn't want to listen to him because he's not actually a good leader, but an inconsistent and entitled dick who points fingers in public, and they know he's checking out at the end of the season anyway. Brown has actually been good and I think he's been playing hard even when he wasn't playing so well at the beginning of the year.

Stephen A isn't wrong about Tatum and Brown having trouble adjusting to Hayward's taking court time from them, but everyone wondered how that would work when Hayward was coming back.  I must imagine it bred resentment when Stephens played Hayward a lot when he was still a liability, while I understand why Stephens felt like he had to keep running Hayward out there. And the egalitarian ethos breaks down when a guy isn't earning his minutes.

Combine this with Jayson Tatum spending time with Kobe in the summer and getting a serious case of Kobe Brain, the willingness to jack up contested 20 foot shots, and the Celtics were just a frustrating team to watch this year. This team was so much fun to watch in the playoffs when Kyrie was injured.  Brown has been good, Hayward has been mostly fine. Kyrie's attitude and Tatum's regression were the difference. Well, that and the fact that the Bucks, Sixers, and Raptors are all a lot better this year.

[IamMe90]

12 minutes ago, DanteGabriel said:

I don't think Kyrie has changed the play style that much, since IT at his King in the Fourth peak was a ball dominant guard. Kyrie has mostly done fine as a facilitator. That's not my complaint.

I'm tired of his shitty attitude where he simultaneously courts attention and then acts resentful for getting asked questions by the media. He whines about guys like Tatum and Brown, who yes do dumb young player things. I've never believed in bitching about teammates to the press. I think you praise your teammates in public and yell at them in private. I didn't like it when Brady bawled out his young receivers on the sideline, and I lost a lot of respect for him then. So yeah, I think Kyrie's public wavering on his commitment and his criticism of teammates infected the locker room.

Flat Earth, "basketball genius," ball energy, 'nuff said. 

Naw, but seriously, I think he's been getting maybe a bit of unfair hate for his poor play, but it's (at least in part) exactly because of the aforementioned annoying as fuck attributes he has, and the shitty leadership you mentioned. It's like, way too easy to root against and hate him now that he's "the guy" on a team. He was much less obtrusively obnoxious as LeBron's #2 guy.  

[Proudfeet]

8 hours ago, DanteGabriel said:

Combine this with Jayson Tatum spending time with Kobe in the summer and getting a serious case of Kobe Brain, the willingness to jack up contested 20 foot shots, 

Kawhi has been playing like Kobe much of his career. It just isn't a problem because he makes his shots. All of last year's stand out rookies are having a tougher time this season anyway.

Also, Stevens has had an entire season to work out whatever shot selection problem you think that Kobe has left Tatum with. 

[Maithanet]

I don't know what is up with Embiid this series.  He looked awesome in Game 3, but the entire rest of the series, he's been plagued by minor injuries (game 1), illness (game 2), a different illness (game 4), and apparently diarrhea last night.  This is like the opposite of Jordan's flu game, Embiid may or may not be sick, but he is undeniably playing terrible.  Last night he was clearly the worst player on the court, with 13 points offset by 8 turnovers. 

This is a weird series, both teams have looked shaky (even overmatched) at times.  I think Toronto has it in the bag although Philly could win game 6 and force it back up North. 

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

Jokic had a play last night that I feel like sums up his entire existence. Beginning at the top of the key, he drives incredibly poorly past two defenders, nearly losing the ball the entire time. He then recovers and attempts a bunny jumper, however, he only jumped like three inches, and a Portland player easily blocked him. The ball bounces all over the place before going off the backboard and landing directly in his hands. Jokic then proceeds to make an easy layup.

I have no idea how this ball of dough is so dominate, but he seems to always make things work.

[DanteGabriel]

3 hours ago, Proudfeet said:

Also, Stevens has had an entire season to work out whatever shot selection problem you think that Kobe has left Tatum with. 

Lol okay, maybe Brad Stevens should call Noted Leadership Expert Phil Jackson and ask him how he got Kobe to improve his shot selection.

[Proudfeet]

7 minutes ago, DanteGabriel said:

Lol okay, maybe Brad Stevens should call Noted Leadership Expert Phil Jackson and ask him how he got Kobe to improve his shot selection.

A couple of workouts with Kobe is a greater influence than an entire season under Stevens before the workouts and another season after. You're right, Kobe speaks the gospel. That's why Tatum started playing worse after the Kobe feature on Tatum during last year's post season. Surprised that you thought the summer workouts were necessary to convert Tatum. He was already converted. The workouts were his pilgrimage.

[DanteGabriel]

1 hour ago, Proudfeet said:

A couple of workouts with Kobe is a greater influence than an entire season under Stevens before the workouts and another season after. You're right, Kobe speaks the gospel. That's why Tatum started playing worse after the Kobe feature on Tatum during last year's post season. Surprised that you thought the summer workouts were necessary to convert Tatum. He was already converted. The workouts were his pilgrimage.

Is it crazy to think that a legendary player that Tatum grew up idolizing has more impact on Tatum's shot selection than the coach Tatum had been under for less than two years?

But you're right, Tatum was already on that road. I probably misstated things if I implied that the summer workouts were all it took to go very Tatum the dreaded Kobe Brain disease. I think I started to get incensed about the connection thus summer when Kobe started trying to brand Tatum with his dumb "Mamba mentality" on social media. But Tatum did become a less efficient shooter this year, and it's hard not to draw the line to Kobe.

It was pretty dumb of you to counter by suggesting that one year of coaching by Stevens could deprogram Tatum, though. I think it overestimates the impact a coach can have on a blue chip player who's had his ass kissed since he was prepubescent.

[Proudfeet]

13 minutes ago, DanteGabriel said:

Is it crazy to think that a legendary player that Tatum grew up idolizing has more impact on Tatum's shot selection than the coach Tatum had been under for less than two years?

But you're right, Tatum was already on that road. I probably misstated things if I implied that the summer workouts were all it took to go very Tatum the dreaded Kobe Brain disease. I think I started to get incensed about the connection thus summer when Kobe started trying to brand Tatum with his dumb "Mamba mentality" on social media.

It was pretty dumb of you to counter by suggesting that one year of coaching by Stevens could deprogram Tatum, though. I think it overestimates the impact a coach can have on a blue chip player who's had his ass kissed since he was prepubescent.

To me, I believe that either Stevens doesn't think it is a problem, or he is unable to communicate it effectively to Tatum. I don't doubt that Kobe encourages people to take contested shots nor that Tatum feels emboldened by Kobe, but the coach is responsible to actually coach and he has had ample time. 

Also, it is only a problem because Tatum doesn't make the shots. I think that taking 20 footers open or contested is pretty dumb most of the time, but taking contested shots isn't. Somebody has to force the issue, and doing that could be the difference in career trajectory between developing into the next Kawhi or Danny Green. Maybe you'd prefer more developed players like Kyrie do it now, but if Hayward is not fully recovered, isn't Tatum the next best option?

[The Mother of The Others]

other players in the league must have started drinking chocolate milk too , to cancel out Klay Thomson's advantage from last year.    I want Houston to get it done, but I don't expect.    

After the league breaks up the Warriors and disbands that franchise, their logo should also be forbidden in public, so it becomes like a Targaryen banner your family has to hide away in the basement.   I don't like golden state, Jim.   Too bad Philly tried so hard as an organization only to have their supergroup not try as hard.  They fooled me into getting all excited to see something.

I'm not quite tired of Yiannis yet, so instead of breaking up the Deer I'll settle for breaking up [Atetemkumpo's] name into more manageable syllables, and there should be a national workshop where he spends half an hour on television walking us through the pronunciation....and spelling.    In fact, this could be done as he's being awarded the championship trophy.

[DanteGabriel]

2 hours ago, Proudfeet said:

To me, I believe that either Stevens doesn't think it is a problem, or he is unable to communicate it effectively to Tatum. I don't doubt that Kobe encourages people to take contested shots nor that Tatum feels emboldened by Kobe, but the coach is responsible to actually coach and he has had ample time. 

Also, it is only a problem because Tatum doesn't make the shots. I think that taking 20 footers open or contested is pretty dumb most of the time, but taking contested shots isn't. Somebody has to force the issue, and doing that could be the difference in career trajectory between developing into the next Kawhi or Danny Green. Maybe you'd prefer more developed players like Kyrie do it now, but if Hayward is not fully recovered, isn't Tatum the next best option?

It's naive to think that the only two options are just that Stevens thinks Tatum's shot selection is fine or that he is unable to tell Tatum about it effectively. The more likely explanation, which I referred to with my Phil Jackson comment, is that the player simply doesn't care what his coach is telling him -- i.e. Kobe Brain.

I'm glad you agree that taking 20 foot shots is dumb. I don't want Kyrie or Tatum or anyone else taking contested 20 foot jumpers. I mean, I recognize why sometimes it has to happen and I know that superstars are the ones who can make that shot. Still not a good idea to take those shots, and the Celtics take too many of those shots when they don't have to, and Tatum is one of the prime offenders. So what are you disagreeing with me about?

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

I feel pretty confident that Boston is going to pull a 1, 2, 3. Cancun tonight. 

I have no confidence in the Warriors tonight. What I do have confidence in is that one team will take a huge early lead, and then that team will proceed to choke and lose the game. Whoever wins tonight is winning this series.

[Relic]

I rrrrrrrrrrrrrrrreally don't want Kyrie on the Knicks next year. Fuck that dude.

[Relic]

9 hours ago, Maithanet said:

I don't know what is up with Embiid this series.  He looked awesome in Game 3, but the entire rest of the series, he's been plagued by minor injuries (game 1), illness (game 2), a different illness (game 4), and apparently diarrhea last night.  This is like the opposite of Jordan's flu game, Embiid may or may not be sick, but he is undeniably playing terrible.  Last night he was clearly the worst player on the court, with 13 points offset by 8 turnovers. 

This is a weird series, both teams have looked shaky (even overmatched) at times.  I think Toronto has it in the bag although Philly could win game 6 and force it back up North. 

Raps have the best player by a mile in the match-up tho. Think they will advance in 7. 

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

3 minutes ago, Relic said:

I rrrrrrrrrrrrrrrreally don't want Kyrie on the Knicks next year. Fuck that dude.

If I'm the Knicks, I'm doing everything in my power to lure KD and Kawhi. Imagine getting those two and the number one pick.

Only the Knicks could mess that up. 

[briantw]

49 minutes ago, Relic said:

I rrrrrrrrrrrrrrrreally don't want Kyrie on the Knicks next year. Fuck that dude.

Kyrie is so weird.  I don't think there's a single guy in the NBA I'd pick over him to take the last shot in a big game, but he seems like such a miserable prick as a person.  He doesn't seem like he'll be happy anywhere. 

[DanteGabriel]

The way they're playing, looks like the Celtics are booking their vacation travel from the bench.

[KingintheNorth4]

Paul Pierce was right about one thing:

This series is over.