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NBA Playoffs 2019 - Kawhi So Serious?!

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3 hours ago, DireWolfSpirit said:

I think the Bucks take them with or without Durant.

Talking bout the same Bucks team that just lost by 20 last night?

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The Raptors are looking like they're getting their feet under them.  They are an older team with a lot more playoff experience, and it's starting to tell.  The Bucks look like a bunch of roleplayers + Giannis.  In the playoffs, that is hard/impossible to win a title with.  Other guys have to step up. 

Not that the series is over, but the Bucks need to play better and adjust.  What they've brought to the table thus far isn't going to cut it. 

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1 hour ago, Maithanet said:

The Raptors are looking like they're getting their feet under them.  They are an older team with a lot more playoff experience, and it's starting to tell.  The Bucks look like a bunch of roleplayers + Giannis.  In the playoffs, that is hard/impossible to win a title with.  Other guys have to step up. 

Not that the series is over, but the Bucks need to play better and adjust.  What they've brought to the table thus far isn't going to cut it. 

Bledsoe is killing them on the offensive side of the ball. I think id start George Hill and bring EB off the bench for defense at this point. If he's upset by that so be it. 

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19 minutes ago, Maithanet said:

The Raptors are looking like they're getting their feet under them.  They are an older team with a lot more playoff experience, and it's starting to tell.  The Bucks look like a bunch of roleplayers + Giannis.  In the playoffs, that is hard/impossible to win a title with.  Other guys have to step up. 

Not that the series is over, but the Bucks need to play better and adjust.  What they've brought to the table thus far isn't going to cut it. 

The Raptors made adjustments in Game 3, such as Kawhi's defensive skills, and their 2 OT victory looks like it gave them a boost for Game 4.

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Its like I said upthread... the NBA has always been notoriously cruel to young superstars.  There's always a period of banging your head against the wall before you finally can break through in the playoffs.  (Unless your name is Steph...)

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Posted (edited)
36 minutes ago, Rhom said:

Its like I said upthread... the NBA has always been notoriously cruel to young superstars.  There's always a period of banging your head against the wall before you finally can break through in the playoffs.  (Unless your name is Steph...)

If you really subscribe to that theory, you could argue that the 2015 Warriors really only won because of an almost astonishing run of injury luck, where every single one of the Warriors opponents were missing their point guard, and often another key player as well. 

Pelicans were missing PG Jrue Holiday for most of series.

Grizzlies had PG Mike Conley and SF Tony Allen missing significant time and often playing hurt. 

Rockets were missing starting PG Patrick Beverley.

Cavaliers lost PG Kyrie Irving in Game 1 and were missing PF Kevin Love all series. 

Would the Warriors (who had the best record in the NBA that year) have won those series anyway?  Maybe.  But the 2016 Warriors were better than the 2015 version, and they still came up short against the healthy 2016 Cavs.  So it seems quite possible they would have fallen in 2015 as well.  Instead, the Warriors won in 2015 in spite of looking pretty terrible for much of the Finals and their only real standout player was the veteran Iguodala, rather than Curry or Thompson or Green. 

It is really disappointing that the 2015 Warriors didn't have to face the defending champion Spurs, because that team would have given them a real test.  But alas, they lost on the road to the Clippers in game 7, who themselves ran out of gas one game short of making the WCF. 

EDIT:  Patrick Beverly plays PG not PF

Edited by Maithanet

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1 minute ago, Maithanet said:

Would the Warriors (who had the best record in the NBA that year) have won those series anyway?  Maybe.  But the 2016 Warriors were better than the 2015 version, and they still came up short against the healthy 2016 Cavs.  So it seems quite possible they would have fallen in 2015 as well.  Instead, the Warriors won in 2015 in spite of looking pretty terrible for much of the Finals and their only real standout player was the veteran Iguodala, rather than Curry or Thompson or Green.

The momentum of the 2016 series shifted fairly drastically once Green was temporarily suspended. Would the Cavs have won had that not been the case?

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10 hours ago, Triskele said:

Anyone still think that the Warriors need Durant in order to beat the Big Bad Bucks, presumed champions of the might Eastern Conference?  What will poor Steph, Klay, and Dray do?  

Kawhi has been putting up some absurd defensive stats against Giannis. If Green can replicate that, the Bucks are in deep trouble even without Durant.

And speaking of Kawhi, it appears that he’s gotten banged up in the last few games. These short rest periods are likely taking their toll on him.  

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10 minutes ago, Matrim Fox Cauthon said:

The momentum of the 2016 series shifted fairly drastically once Green was temporarily suspended. Would the Cavs have won had that not been the case?

In 2016?  Probably not.  But I'm not sure that's proving the point you think it is: Green fell for Lebron's sneaky goading and got ejected in an already decided Game 4.  That's the kind of thing that happens to young teams which holds them back. 

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1 minute ago, Tywin et al. said:

Kawhi has been putting up some absurd defensive stats against Giannis. If Green can replicate that, the Bucks are in deep trouble even without Durant.

And speaking of Kawhi, it appears that he’s gotten banged up in the last few games. These short rest periods are likely taking their toll on him.  

Yeah, I hope Kawhi can get healthy.  Word is that he hurt himself early in game 3, but still played 52 minutes.  That's definitely not good for you.

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4 hours ago, Rhom said:

Talking bout the same Bucks team that just lost by 20 last night?

I'll believe the Raptors have a chance when I see them take a road game against Milwaukee. Absent that im still picking Bucks to advance.

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3 minutes ago, DireWolfSpirit said:

I'll believe the Raptors have a chance when I see them take a road game against Milwaukee. Absent that im still picking Bucks to advance.

I tend to agree.  But in that same vein... I wouldn't pick the Bucks over the Warriors if they can't win on the road at Toronto either.

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I get that the Warriors will be heavy faves. My anarchist streak demands that I root for all dynasty's to be taken down and destroyed lol.

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37 minutes ago, Maithanet said:

Yeah, I hope Kawhi can get healthy.  Word is that he hurt himself early in game 3, but still played 52 minutes.  That's definitely not good for you.

He also came down funny on a contested dunk last night. But if you’re looking for a bright spot, the lead was only 10 points at the time, so the Raptors were able to add a lot to their lead after it occurred.

Getting back to my previous post, I caught some defensive stats regarding Kawhi and Giannis. During the regular season, the two went head to head 31 times. Giannis only got 3 shots up. In game 3, when Kawhi was guarding Giannis, Giannis went 1/9. Kawhi has to be considered the best defensive wing in the NBA (I don’t know what Green qualifies as, point forward?).

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Posted (edited)
6 hours ago, Maithanet said:

If you really subscribe to that theory, you could argue that the 2015 Warriors really only won because of an almost astonishing run of injury luck, where every single one of the Warriors opponents were missing their point guard, and often another key player as well. 

Pelicans were missing PG Jrue Holiday for most of series.

Grizzlies had PG Mike Conley and SF Tony Allen missing significant time and often playing hurt. 

Rockets were missing starting PG Patrick Beverley.

Cavaliers lost PG Kyrie Irving in Game 1 and were missing PF Kevin Love all series. 

Would the Warriors (who had the best record in the NBA that year) have won those series anyway?  Maybe.  But the 2016 Warriors were better than the 2015 version, and they still came up short against the healthy 2016 Cavs.  So it seems quite possible they would have fallen in 2015 as well.  Instead, the Warriors won in 2015 in spite of looking pretty terrible for much of the Finals and their only real standout player was the veteran Iguodala, rather than Curry or Thompson or Green. 

It is really disappointing that the 2015 Warriors didn't have to face the defending champion Spurs, because that team would have given them a real test.  But alas, they lost on the road to the Clippers in game 7, who themselves ran out of gas one game short of making the WCF. 

EDIT:  Patrick Beverly plays PG not PF

Yeah, I think the Cavs take 2015 if Irving is healthy.  Missing Love hurt too, but LeBron just needed at least one more guy who could score consistently and Irving has a history of coming up big when it counts.  The fact that LeBron basically won two games in that series by himself is ridiculous.

Of course, if they take 2015, who knows if they win in 2016, and that historic comeback and destroying the Warriors fairy tale season was far more satisfying than a win in 2015 would have been.  It still would have been awesome, just less so.

Edited by briantw

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52 minutes ago, briantw said:

Yeah, I think the Cavs take 2015 if Irving is healthy.  Missing Love hurt too, but LeBron just needed at least one more guy who could score consistently and Irving has a history of coming up big when it counts.  The fact that LeBron basically won two games in that series by himself is ridiculous.

Of course, if they take 2015, who knows if they win in 2016, and that historic comeback and destroying the Warriors fairy tale season was far more satisfying than a win in 2015 would have been.  It still would have been awesome, just less so.

How dare you besmirch the legend of Matthew Dellavedova.

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9 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said:

How dare you besmirch the legend of Matthew Dellavedova.

It was hilarious how pumped Cleveland fans were when he got traded back to Cleveland.  

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9 minutes ago, briantw said:

It was hilarious how pumped Cleveland fans were when he got traded back to Cleveland.  

Every team needs a fan favorite, which is either a scrappy white guard who everyone wants to fight or a white lumbering giant stiff who seems to always be falling down.

Melo saw how Lin was breaking the mold, so he had him traded so all could be right in the NBA again.

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Just catching up.

Part of why I'm beating the drum I'm beating is that, while the East is interesting in a new way this year, I'm not sold that it's not the same old East until someone proves it.  I don't apologize for that position.  

Milwaukee had a great regular season, but along @Rhom's lines about the new teams getting really challenged in their early forays into the playoffs, there's also the thing about the teams that overextend in the regular season because they don't have the confidence to coast the way that GS does.  

Now that sentiment led fools like me to think stuff after Boston won game 1 against Milwaukee, but it shouldn't go too far in the other direction.  And if I believe it's kinda sorta still the same old East then I cannot anoint the Bucks to be some juggernaut just yet.  Or Toronto.  And none of that is the slightest disrespect to Giannis or Leonard who are both clearly unreal.

Then on the other side, yes, I pointed out that the Portland series was bizarrely competitive for a sweep.  But GS also beat Houston in 6 without KD to close it out.  Do we think the Bucks are better than the Rockets?  If so, why?  

I think that Houston, Denver, Portland, OKC, and San Antonio would all have great chances to win series against Milwaukee or Toronto, and I might even bet on all of those western teams.  And I would give Utah and LAC a puncher's chance too.  And yet here's GS having just shredded their way back to their 5th straight finals whether KD plays or not.  Someone tell me why this thinking is actually wrong and why Milwaukee or Toronto has earned this level of respect yet.

My theory is that certain commentators are really desirous of a league where the East and West are evenly matched.

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