So Now We Know...

[Ice Queen]

11 minutes ago, Larger than Average Finger said:

I keep thinking that the Children of The Forrest may be the real enemy here. It feels like they have been controlling the Three Eyed Ravens, perhaps to cause the events that get men off of their continent completely.

I've thought that too, and they're downright creepy. It's THEIR world that was destroyed by the First Men, THEIR gods (weirwoods) that were cut down. The gods can no longer see because the trees are gone. 

 

[LadyNoOne]

3 minutes ago, Ice Queen said:

No, it's Night's King. 

Darn.... Well, thanks

[Gianna Dorenberg]

I'm a bit disappointed by his motives sadly. It's pretty much a cliche at this point, villain gets cursed wants revenge by killing everyone etc.

I was hoping that there was more to him than just wishing for the death of everyone.

[Bran Snow]

10 minutes ago, Gianna Dorenberg said:

I'm a bit disappointed by his motives sadly. It's pretty much a cliche at this point, villain gets cursed wants revenge by killing everyone etc.

I was hoping that there was more to him than just wishing for the death of everyone.

I see it as bad programming then revenge. He was created by the CotF as a weapon to fight the First Men. They just did too "good" of a job creating him that he just wants to destroy everything. They didn't really make a way to control him so the weapon turned on everyone. The CotF then had to work with the First Men to stop the NK. Ironically, the weapon did stop the war between the Cotf and The First Men when they had to band together.

[Kajjo]

1 hour ago, lakin1013 said:

Bran told us that the NK had harmed other 3ER. 

He killed the Bloodraven. He didn't try to interrogate him.

1 hour ago, lakin1013 said:

I do predict, at the end of the story, we will see a council type government with representatives from the 7.  Bran will be gone.

I am with you here.

[TwiceBorn]

6 hours ago, a girl knows nothing said:

I still want to know why the Night King wants to destroy all of mankind and its memory. Is he just evil incarnate? Is it revenge for being turned by the children of the forest? I am not satisfied by only knowing what his aim is.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Unmaker

also

https://robinhobbelderlings.fandom.com/wiki/The_Pale_Woman

[Nightwish]

I may sound really stupid but I didn’t understand how killing Bran will erase humanity. Like ok Bran has the power to move through time collecting several information throughout history of Westeros. He is a data bank. But how his death affects humanity? Sam did explain how humanity can not exist without memories but I don’t remember him making the connection from Bran to all humanity. Did you understand that part? 

[Ice Queen]

6 minutes ago, Nightwish said:

I may sound really stupid but I didn’t understand how killing Bran will erase humanity. Like ok Bran has the power to move through time collecting several information throughout history of Westeros. He is a data bank. But how his death affects humanity? Sam did explain how humanity can not exist without memories but I don’t remember him making the connection from Bran to all humanity. Did you understand that part? 

Essentially, Bran has humanity's genetic memories or collective unconscious. There isn't much that hits at humanity's pith and core, but with no memories we could not exist as a species or learn from our mistakes, or progress at all. It would erase who we are. Maybe the point is that the NK wants to do to humans what humans have done to every other species on the planet.

The third eye is a window to the unconscious--past, present and future. He can see endless streams of possibilities, including nothingness. 

[Nightwish]

2 minutes ago, Ice Queen said:

Essentially, Bran has humanity's genetic memories or collective unconscious. There isn't much that hits at humanity's pith and core, but with no memories we could not exist as a species or learn from our mistakes, or progress at all. It would erase who we are. Maybe the point is that the NK wants to do to humans what humans have done to every other species on the planet.

The third eye is a window to the unconscious--past, present and future. He can see endless streams of possibilities, including nothingness. 

Yes but practically what happens if Bran dies? Do humans forget, stop having memories the next moment? This is what I didnt understand. So essentially there has to be always a 3eyeraven? 

[Ice Queen]

17 minutes ago, Nightwish said:

Yes but practically what happens if Bran dies? Do humans forget, stop having memories the next moment? This is what I didnt understand. So essentially there has to be always a 3eyeraven? 

Well, damn, I don't know what happened to my post.

Basically, this is making me nuts because it reminds me of something I read many years ago, but I can't remember what it was or who wrote it. I think it was a natural philosophy treatise and I need to track it down. 

Give me time, it'll come to me. I feel like Gandalf at the Mines of Moria right now but I know I've seen something similar somewhere before.

Edit: In some ways, humanity has already forgotten its past. The North Remembers, but does it really? Ned doesn't really believe that the WW are back despite more and more reports. The Starks have forgotten the history of the North and their place in it. They follow the old gods, but they don't remember what that means.

The Maesters--supposedly the ultimate compendium of all human knowledge--don't believe any of it. Even when the dragons come back, the WW aren't on their radar. 

All of this has happened before and all of this will happen again. Humanity seems doomed to keep repeating the same mistakes over and over again. 

[a girl knows nothing]

1 hour ago, Nightwish said:

I may sound really stupid but I didn’t understand how killing Bran will erase humanity. Like ok Bran has the power to move through time collecting several information throughout history of Westeros. He is a data bank. But how his death affects humanity? Sam did explain how humanity can not exist without memories but I don’t remember him making the connection from Bran to all humanity. Did you understand that part? 

Good question. I hadn’t really thought about it until now - I guess I just accepted it as one of those magical elements that defies rational explanation. Mankind hasn’t exactly been using the previous three eyed raven’s knowledge bank for anything explicit, unless it’s sole purpose is just to exist and be preserved (or to be transferred to Bran to use now). No one in the present time seemed to know what a three eyed raven was or that one existed until Bran.

[a girl knows nothing]

9 hours ago, Larger than Average Finger said:

I keep thinking that the Children of The Forrest may be the real enemy here. It feels like they have been controlling the Three Eyed Ravens, perhaps to cause the events that get men off of their continent completely.

That’s an interesting theory! I had assumed the children were all extinct now but I suppose this hasn’t been confirmed concretely.

[Wik]

I have trash short term memory but I didn't think they killed all the CotF in the previous seasons....

 

I hadn't considered a "council" type of ruling.....if for no other reason that there are some that CLEARLY have stronger claims to the throne. 

I had always assumed that post NK War would have Westeros in some similar setup, a king, several powerful houses with sub houses, but that there would be a serious trimming down. But I have always felt that Jon would be king at the end....

As time has passed it seems like the show has paralleled Bran and the 3ER with the NK but if Jon is supposed to be the hero and one that kills him, other than the "history of man" Bran is somehow less important...and I agree with a previous post.....people are so focused on Westeros they forget the world is march larger. All of the Free Cities are on the other side and they all have memories and history and books, regardless of what happens in Westeros, so that makes Bran and the 3ER even more anti climatic for me. 

[MinscS2]

Re. Bran being the worlds memory: Didn't the masters at the citadel proclaim that they where the worlds memory last season as well? 

[LadyOlenna]

13 hours ago, a girl knows nothing said:

I still want to know why the Night King wants to destroy all of mankind and its memory. Is he just evil incarnate? Is it revenge for being turned by the children of the forest? I am not satisfied by only knowing what his aim is.

Me too! I will be very disappointed if this is all the explanation we are going to get. Martin made it very clear that he doesn't want to portrait a war between the good guys (who are completely good and beautiful) and the bad ones (evil, ugly, dressed all in black). I was hoping that at some point there would be some kind of dialogue between the parts, and a deeper understanding of the Other's point of view.

[MinscS2]

Yeah a faceless, silent, unyielding, evil force which tries to eradicate all life is as cliche as it gets.
Not that GoT is beyond cliche's, that's just a myth.

I like the small "twist" that the NK was created as a weapon of self-defense by the CotF, who then essentially started to malfunction and went rogue.
Still doesn't change the fact that if there's no deeper meaning to the NK, then his motivations are pretty boring.

[Kristoff]

I can't help but feel the White Walkers in the shows and the Others in the books will have entirely different motivations and origins. I think the general gist of it is the same, as in The Others will invade Westeros the same as the White Walkers, but for different reasons. I'd even go as far as to say the Others end up getting an Ice Dragon in the books and D&D just used one of Dany's Dragons as a substitute.

[The Dragon has three heads]

14 hours ago, lakin1013 said:

I wonder if the Night King wants relevant, useful information that resides in each of the 3-Eyed Ravens.  Bran told us that the NK had harmed other 3ER.  If the NK captures Bran, then he gets a massive download of information.  Many called the weirwood trees as the weirnet.  I would image the NK had zero access.  While this story has elements of power, and climate change, and fantasy, maybe the underlying story is about the information age.  I know - out there but a society that puts its history and knowledge in one person is doomed to die. I do predict, at the end of the story, we will see a council type government with representatives from the 7.  Bran will be gone.

Har.

This is the tv show we’re talking about here.  

[House Cambodia]

16 hours ago, a girl knows nothing said:

I still want to know why the Night King wants to destroy all of mankind and its memory. Is he just evil incarnate? Is it revenge for being turned by the children of the forest? I am not satisfied by only knowing what his aim is.

That's like asking why Gaia/Climate Breakdown wants to destroy us. It's nothing personal. That's not a random comparison - GRRM himself has admitted that the story is an allegory of our behaviour in the face of climate change.

[House Cambodia]

8 hours ago, Ice Queen said:

Essentially, Bran has humanity's genetic memories or collective unconscious. There isn't much that hits at humanity's pith and core, but with no memories we could not exist as a species or learn from our mistakes, or progress at all. It would erase who we are. Maybe the point is that the NK wants to do to humans what humans have done to every other species on the planet.

The third eye is a window to the unconscious--past, present and future. He can see endless streams of possibilities, including nothingness. 

I think you're missing a key point by anthropomorphising the point too much. Bran's 'memories' are the memories of the weirnet - he 'sees' and 'remembers' everything weirwood trees have ever seen. He doesn't become emotional about anything because trees don't have emotions, they just exist for thousands of years.

 

Now, that's how the three-eyed raven explains his 'powers' in the books. Where this falls apart for me is that all the weirwood trees south of the North (apart from the God's Eye lake) were cut down long ago, so he shouldn't know what happened at the Tower of Joy and other such locations.