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Kajjo

Jon dying and resurrected a second time?

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17 hours ago, Kajjo said:

What do you think about Jon dying during the battle, but then Melisandre arriving and resurrecting him a second time?

This was forshadowed a bit when Jon explicitly told Melisandre not to do so but she denied.

Melisandre has not arrived yet, so that could be a good entry in S8E4.

 

I could see the show doing it, but I sincerely hope it doesn't. GRRM has spoken at length about the importance of death mattering in his universe, and how he thought it would have been better had Gandalf stayed dead in LotR, so I have a hard time believing he'd have intended that to happen, and as much as D&D have taken liberties with his story, that's a really big liberty to take.

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18 hours ago, Kajjo said:

What do you think about Jon dying during the battle, but then Melisandre arriving and resurrecting him a second time?

This was forshadowed a bit when Jon explicitly told Melisandre not to do so but she denied.

Melisandre has not arrived yet, so that could be a good entry in S8E4.

 

Who says Mellisandre has yet to arrive. Why can't she just use a different glamour and project her image as a different girl, hint hint the girl with the burn scar. It makes no sense, for Mel, who knows she has a part to play, to miss this battle. Way too much at stake, if she were to miss it, and Jon dies, then what?

And no, if Jon dies, and is resurrected again, he would be less himself than before. I just can't see that happening. 

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13 hours ago, King Jon Snow Stark said:

I want him to look at the Throne and say “My watch has ended” and go home to Winterfell. Jon on the Throne would be disappointing.

Agree totally. He didn't even want to be KitN.

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1 hour ago, Tywin Tytosson said:

i could see Melisandre doing that, and giving up her own life willingly in the process.  jon and davos have promised to execute her if she come back to the north, and Arya likely has her on her list.  Resurrecting the PtwP/AA I would think would be something Melisandre would trade her own life for.  She may have even already 'seen' this.

I've thought about this also, but somehow is just seems so, contrived.

 

13 hours ago, Arya's Sideboob said:

I think Sansa winds up on the Iron Throne.

I've been thinking that for a few years now--if there is an Iron Throne left. I like the idea of the Seven Kingdoms being torn apart and Dany being queen of the ashes. Right now I think that's all she deserves to rule over.

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4 hours ago, Error-504 said:

Who says Mellisandre has yet to arrive. Why can't she just use a different glamour and project her image as a different girl, hint hint the girl with the burn scar.

I wouldn't like a new disguise. We have seen Melisandre only in exactly two forms: The Red Woman and her very old self. This could very well be the same woman in different ages. To suddenly come up with shape-changing for Red Priests, too, would be disappointing, a simple trick. 

I believe the little girl with the burn scar was just to remind us of Melisandre and Shireen. Or remind Davos of it, in-show.

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Someone said a few posts back if job dies again he’s get resurrected by NK, what if that did happen and Jon being brought back once by fire/lord of light and once by ice , turns him in to the ptwp/azor/magical force that can end it all

realize not likely but would be a good additional twist on the ice and fire thing 

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On 4/23/2019 at 6:55 PM, Kajjo said:

Who thinks this will have a happy ending... so know the quote. So this is not a good counter argument.

Anyway, may idea is of course just a wild theory without any claims.

I didn't mean it like "once you start resurrecting characters, the story is bound to have a sad ending" or something like that. What I meant is that when you introduce the possibility of resurrection into the story, the death stops to being so definitive, shocking and sad because if one (or multiple) characters can be resurrected, why not the rest too? It imo more or less ruins the story. I don't know if you've seen American Horror Story Coven but in that series basically everybody could be immediately resurrected because one of the characters had resurrection powers and so basically no viewer cared when someone died because there were so many resurrections going on. GRRM managed to handle the resurrections relatively decently (like that they are exceptions under very specific conditions) but another resurrection of Jon would be a bit too much imo.

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1 minute ago, Nerevanin said:

that when you introduce the possibility of resurrection into the story, the death stops to being so definitive, shocking and sad because if one (or multiple) characters can be resurrected, why not the rest too?

Completely agree. I don't like the resurrection stuff at all. But we have seen it with Beric and Jon now. It's part of the world. 

1 minute ago, Nerevanin said:

It imo more or less ruins the story

Agreed. I would have preferred death to be death and no resurrection possible.

2 minutes ago, Nerevanin said:

GRRM managed to handle the resurrections relatively decently (like that they are exceptions under very specific conditions)

Too much for me anyway. But it's the way it is.

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3 minutes ago, Kajjo said:

Too much for me anyway. But it's the way it is.

I'd prefer less resurrections too. Let's say that Beric is a chosen one or simply a freak of nature and so he gets resurrected or more simply is unkillable. I'm not happy about it but I can accept that. Let's say unGregor is a zombie without his own mind, blindly following the orders, and that he was created by dark magic and necromancy. I can accept that too. The wights are perfectly acceptable too. But than you have stuff like Jon (his resurrection didn't happen in the books so far, but it is bound to happen one way or another) and (books only stuff) :

Spoiler

there is Victarion, whose current state is unsure, but it is hinted that he is a kind of fire zombie too (like Beric is)

and there is unCat (Catelyn Stark) who was resurrected by Beric who gave his "immortality" to Cat and so he ultimately died. Really? Transferable resurrections? That's way too much.

I agree that it is already getting a bit over the top. Double resurrection of Jon would be terrible imo.

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On 4/23/2019 at 9:18 PM, dbunting said:

If Jon gets resurrected again it will be by the NK, not Mel. 

Yes!  Having Jon be resurrected by the NK, or the NK tries to bring him back as a soldier but something about Jon's special circumstances having already been resurrected causes something to go not-quite-right seems a distinct possibility and could actually lead to some interesting story dynamics.

On 4/23/2019 at 11:24 PM, Error-504 said:

Who says Mellisandre has yet to arrive. Why can't she just use a different glamour and project her image as a different girl, hint hint the girl with the burn scar. It makes no sense, for Mel, who knows she has a part to play, to miss this battle. Way too much at stake, if she were to miss it, and Jon dies, then what?

And no, if Jon dies, and is resurrected again, he would be less himself than before. I just can't see that happening. 

Jon doesn't seem to be any less himself after the first resurrection, which may be a failure in the writing or acting.  But we've seen zero consequences for his resurrection.  There's no reason to believe if he is brought back again it will have any affect on him other than making him brood even more than normal because someone didn't heed his request not to resurrect him again.

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3 hours ago, Dragons Are Real said:

Yes!  Having Jon be resurrected by the NK, or the NK tries to bring him back as a soldier but something about Jon's special circumstances having already been resurrected causes something to go not-quite-right seems a distinct possibility and could actually lead to some interesting story dynamics.

Jon doesn't seem to be any less himself after the first resurrection, which may be a failure in the writing or acting.  But we've seen zero consequences for his resurrection.  There's no reason to believe if he is brought back again it will have any affect on him other than making him brood even more than normal because someone didn't heed his request not to resurrect him again.

His wounds don't seem to be healing very well,, and then there is the fact he has to change his shirt every time he has a drink.......

;)

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I'm going with Beric resurrecting Jon the second time.

In the books he's dead at this point with Lady Stoneheart taking his place. There Catelyn basically hated Jon, but after seeing events unfold, she has a change of heart and resurrects Jon. 

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On 4/24/2019 at 5:10 AM, Kajjo said:

I wouldn't like a new disguise. We have seen Melisandre only in exactly two forms: The Red Woman and her very old self. This could very well be the same woman in different ages. To suddenly come up with shape-changing for Red Priests, too, would be disappointing, a simple trick. 

I believe the little girl with the burn scar was just to remind us of Melisandre and Shireen. Or remind Davos of it, in-show.

We have already seen Mel shape shift on screen so why would this be new? When we see Mel we see a beautiful middle aged woman with a rocking body.  When we saw the much older Mel her body was aged as well, wrinkles, sagging skin and hunched shoulders. I can't see how she isn't already shape shifting.  

A different thing but truly the same issue is Arya when she uses faces, her entire body changes and it kind of sneaks by people. Arya is considerably smaller than Walder Frey and yet she used his face and was his size.  When we see the hall of faces in the House of Black and White we only see faces, and yet when the FM use them, their hair changes as well.   Some things you just have to take with a grain of salt. That girl could very well be Mel. I don't think it is because it, to me anyways, seems cruel, like she is taunting Davos.

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Jon dies in Dany's arms.. Mel appears out of no where and brings Jon back.. Dany tells Mel she can have anything she wants, she's a hero yada yada.. Davos walks in and beheads her..  Dany sentances Davos to death but Jon says no...   ooooo drama drama..

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