What’s going to go down in the crypts?

[MarienneOfTarth]

Discussing E03 with my husband and we started to wonder about how “safe” the crypts of Winterfell will actually be during the battle. It’s mentioned many times in E02 that the crypt is believed to be the safest place for the vulnerable women and children which in GOT usually means that it’s the exact opposite. Isn’t it a bit problematic that the crypt is filled with dead people—and the attacking army can raise the dead? 

So my thoughts—will those buried in the crypts be raised by the Night King and become Wights? Is that even possible? That would mean Wight Ned and Lyanna potentially.

Might be why Dany says “The dead are already here” in the episode preview.  

Sorry if this has been discussed before just wondering how you all feel about the plausibility of this happening.

 

 

[dbunting]

4 hours ago, MarienneOfTarth said:

Discussing E03 with my husband and we started to wonder about how “safe” the crypts of Winterfell will actually be during the battle. It’s mentioned many times in E02 that the crypt is believed to be the safest place for the vulnerable women and children which in GOT usually means that it’s the exact opposite. Isn’t it a bit problematic that the crypt is filled with dead people—and the attacking army can raise the dead? 

So my thoughts—will those buried in the crypts be raised by the Night King and become Wights? Is that even possible? That would mean Wight Ned and Lyanna potentially.

Might be why Dany says “The dead are already here” in the episode preview.  

Sorry if this has been discussed before just wondering how you all feel about the plausibility of this happening.

 

 

Yep, this is covered in a few different threads in Ep 2 forum. Most think that they said the crypts are safe way too many times for them to actually be safe. Plus they are crypts, with dead bodies, and well the NK is coming.

Also there is a book reference from Jon in the first book where he is thinking of a Winterfell dream he has, he is in the crypts going deeper down looking for his dad (I think) and then the crypts all start busting open and the dead Starks come for him.

[longest night]

There are dead bodies in heavy stone caskets. If they can't get out of a wooden box, how will they get out of a heavy stone box with a heavy stone lid? Also, if they didn't consider the possibility and simply burn the corpses, the show writers need fired and never write another TV show again.

[dbunting]

Just now, longest night said:

There are dead bodies in heavy stone caskets. If they can't get out of a wooden box, how will they get out of a heavy stone box with a heavy stone lid?

Lol...damn. Good point. Umm, the one in the wooden box had chains on? Plot strength? Continuity issues?

 

[House Cambodia]

White Walkers could open the sarcophagi. Yes, the surviving Starks ought to have taken the precaution of opening up all the tombs and having a mass bonfire, but they didn't. I'm sure all the women and children down there will become zombies - the emphasis in the opening credits on the crypts guarantees a lot of nasty stuff is about to happen down there!

[longest night]

1 minute ago, House Cambodia said:

White Walkers could open the sarcophagi. Yes, the surviving Starks ought to have taken the precaution of opening up all the tombs and having a mass bonfire, but they didn't. I'm sure all the women and children down there will become zombies - the emphasis in the opening credits on the crypts guarantees a lot of nasty stuff is about to happen down there!

Sure, they could, but if the white walkers already made it that far and there still people down there, I don't think a few more dead will matter at that point.

[House Cambodia]

1 minute ago, longest night said:

Sure, they could, but if the white walkers already made it that far and there still people down there, I don't think a few more dead will matter at that point.

Don't think it's a numbers game to the Undead - they reanimate any corpse they get their hands on.

[Runaway Penguin]

TBH... It may just be a misdirection for us to expect something horrible to happen there while the real stuff is set up elsewhere. Maybe the crypts are safe.

I think the Stark Dead will not rise. And if they will, they will rise AGAINST the Night King. That is why they are there with swords on their laps, they are to guard something - or against something. Night King is not necromancer, he raises only people he killed (directly or by cold and wights). He has no power over long time dead (that we know of).

At the same time, from narrative point of view, basically "all of North" is down there, so mass killing would mean Jon ultimately lost in his efforts to protect the Kingdoms of Men. So I think the crypts and their inhabitants will be in danger, but not overrun/suffering massive losses. After all that would make Sansa's story arc utterly pointless (working her way to be a great leader for the North... Only to have everyone in the North die? Don't think so). And Jon's as well. 

Maybe it would be a way for the NK to get into the castle. Maybe it will be his escape route. Maybe he will launch attack on the crypt as a spoiling attack to let NK get away. I mean ultimately all NK has to care about are his Craster's Sons and himself - he can launch wights to certain undeath without any reprecussions, so even if they would not be able to break into the crypts, the heroes would surely have to stop them.

[House Cambodia]

9 minutes ago, Runaway Penguin said:

he raises only people he killed

Now that's a very interesting point - is it fact or speculation? Guess we'll find out soon enough!

[north of the wall]

17 minutes ago, Runaway Penguin said:

TBH... It may just be a misdirection for us to expect something horrible to happen there while the real stuff is set up elsewhere. Maybe the crypts are safe.

I think the Stark Dead will not rise. And if they will, they will rise AGAINST the Night King. That is why they are there with swords on their laps, they are to guard something - or against something. Night King is not necromancer, he raises only people he killed (directly or by cold and wights). He has no power over long time dead (that we know of).

At the same time, from narrative point of view, basically "all of North" is down there, so mass killing would mean Jon ultimately lost in his efforts to protect the Kingdoms of Men. So I think the crypts and their inhabitants will be in danger, but not overrun/suffering massive losses. After all that would make Sansa's story arc utterly pointless (working her way to be a great leader for the North... Only to have everyone in the North die? Don't think so). And Jon's as well. 

Maybe it would be a way for the NK to get into the castle. Maybe it will be his escape route. Maybe he will launch attack on the crypt as a spoiling attack to let NK get away. I mean ultimately all NK has to care about are his Craster's Sons and himself - he can launch wights to certain undeath without any reprecussions, so even if they would not be able to break into the crypts, the heroes would surely have to stop them.

I couldn't agree more. My and my husband had the same discussion. I think if the dead Starks rise then they help the living. He disagrees but since I'm the bigger ASoIaF nerd he believes I could be right lol

[Bran Snow]

As Runaway Penguin said, I think the Crypts will be a misdirection. I don't think the dead will rise. Maybe there is magic down there maybe only the Stark bones are buried, either way I don't see the dead Starks rising. I do see the crypts being the worst place to be though. As far as we know, there is only one way in and out. If the castle get over ran, you would be trapped there.

[Johnston]

48 minutes ago, Bran Snow said:

As Runaway Penguin said, I think the Crypts will be a misdirection.

I actually just had a thought, isn't it mentioned (In books anyway) that the castle has a second graveyard for non-Lords/Ladys and servants. 

 

Isn't that where Ned sent Lady to be buried? 

[Red Dragon10]

2 hours ago, Runaway Penguin said:

Night King is not necromancer, he raises only people he killed (directly or by cold and wights). He has no power over long time dead (that we know of).

Is there proof anywhere of this?  I had assumed that he could raise any dead but I may certainly be wrong!  It was just an assumption.  As far as 'long time dead', some of the dead (reduced to skeletons) seem to be pretty long dead... 

That said, I'm not convinced that the Stark dead will rise.  Most of them would just be skeletons, and I don't think that would be frightening because they would be unrecognizable.  Except for Rickon.  From the size of the box Ned came back in, I think his body is disassembled and his bones boiled.  What are they going to do, have his head clacking around biting ankles? 

[Lord Mormont]

In past seasons they have burnt the bodies of the dead to prevent them from rising up.  So it may still be likely that the dead Starks rise up (for which side, we will see).

[TheWolfOfCambridge]

The big point of the Rising Dead Starks is that Arya wouldn't be afraid of unknown Wights and WW. But in the Trailers she is deathly afraid and running away from something in the Crypts.

I think she is running away from something she knows, Something Dead, that wants to kill her.

Her Brother Rickon. Who would be relatively fresh and not decomposed entirely and whose face would still be recognizable to Arya.

 

Plus a Wight Rickon would be amazing.

 

But the question remains, How does the NK or WW get into the Crypts? are there known secret entrances to the North? When Sansa and Theon escapes through the crypts out of Winterfell which direction did it face?

[Ser Gareth]

5 hours ago, Runaway Penguin said:

Night King is not necromancer, he raises only people he killed (directly or by cold and wights). He has no power over long time dead (that we know of).

Not sure about the show, but that certainly isn't true in the books.

[Ser Gareth]

4 minutes ago, TheWolfOfCambridge said:

The big point of the Rising Dead Starks is that Arya wouldn't be afraid of unknown Wights and WW. But in the Trailers she is deathly afraid and running away from something in the Crypts.

I think she is running away from something she knows, Something Dead, that wants to kill her.

Her Brother Rickon. Who would be relatively fresh and not decomposed entirely and whose face would still be recognizable to Arya.

 

Plus a Wight Rickon would be amazing.

 

But the question remains, How does the NK or WW get into the Crypts? are there known secret entrances to the North? When Sansa and Theon escapes through the crypts out of Winterfell which direction did it face?

She waits and then runs.  I can't help but think that maybe she is acting as bait.

[Runaway Penguin]

20 minutes ago, Ser Gareth said:

Not sure about the show, but that certainly isn't true in the books.

In the books the Others raise dead they killed (either directly, or via wights, or via cold) - the wights then remain under their thrall until they rot away, but I do not think the books mention anywhere "old" corpses rising - just that "fresh" corpses have to be burned immediately to prevent them from rising.

 

Might be wrong, though.

[Ser Gareth]

2 minutes ago, Runaway Penguin said:

In the books the Others raise dead they killed (either directly, or via wights, or via cold) - the wights then remain under their thrall until they rot away, but I do not think the books mention anywhere "old" corpses rising - just that "fresh" corpses have to be burned immediately to prevent them from rising.

 

Might be wrong, though.

Ygritte mentions it.  About opening loads of graves looking for the horn and letting those "things" into the world.

[nborders]

The Night King raised all the dead bodies at Hardhome, and he didn’t kill any of those people.