Electric Cars - Advise?

[Pebble thats Stubby]

Hi,
I'm thinking of buying an electric car.  I do a 50mile round trip to work every day and I can park my car on my drive.  So I can have my own charge point easily.  I currently drive a smoky diesel focus that’s 15 years old I've had from new.  I am concerned about battery life, and how easy it is to charge if I go on a longer trip.  Although we would probably take Hubbys car if that was the case.  I'd also like to keep any car for at least 5 years maybe 10.

I'm looking at the Nissan Leaf something like this one https://www.toomeymotorgroup.co.uk/nissan/used-cars/leaf/tekna/ey16kvp

I'm also considering the Ford fiesta but really that don't fit me physically half as well as the Nissan leaf.  Its ok, but not great.

I work for Ford so it make sense to buy a ford as I get a really good discount on parts.  however Ford don't make an electric or Hybrid.  Other Ford cars fit me less well than the fiesta and although I might be able to drive them occasionally I would not choose to own one due to the physical limitations. - We make some really great cars if your just a little bit taller.

Does anyone have any experience with electric cars, and is able to offer any comments / advise.

[Free Northman Reborn]

Why not a Tesla? Is it a budget issue?

[Toth]

Funny, just an hour ago I have seen a Tesla go past me for the first time in this area. But no, given the city commuting thing, I think a Tesla would be overkill.

I recently did some looking just out of curiosity and personally found the Hyundai Ioniq to be really amazing: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyundai_Ioniq

Mostly from the cost effective-ness POV though. Other than that bit I'm afraid I can give little advice. The only electric car I ever personally drove was a Smart ED at a car show almost a decade ago. I loved the obvious responsiveness of the engine (it is kinda self-explanatory without the gears, but still feels funny), but by now these are horribly outdated and I can't say their modern ED4 counterparts have evolved in any way.

[Maithanet]

I am planning on my next vehicle being electric if we can swing it financially.  My current car is getting pretty long in the tooth, so that will be sometime soon, but hopefully not too soon. 

From the research I've done on it, it seems like there's a market inefficiency in that most people who buy electric cars want to buy one new.  Used electric vehicles can have battery degradation, which a lot of people don't want to mess with for their first EV.  Thus, IMO it looks like the price drops pretty considerably for an EV if you're willing to get one that is 2-3 years old.  That is my plan, I'm hoping to buy something like a 2018 Leaf or a Model 3 in a year or two. 

[Spockydog]

1 hour ago, Free Northman Reborn said:

Why not a Tesla? Is it a budget issue?

They are really expensive over here. Too expensive to justify purchasing, for me at least.

[Which Tyler]

24 minutes ago, Spockydog said:

They are really expensive over here. Too expensive to justify purchasing, for me at least.

Yeah, dunno what it's like on t'other side of the Atlantic, but Tesla costs about the same as a small house, approximately 4 times the price of a Leaf.

Not the same market

[Maithanet]

5 minutes ago, Which Tyler said:

Yeah, dunno what it's like on t'other side of the Atlantic, but Tesla costs about the same as a small house, approximately 4 times the price of a Leaf.

Not the same market

Is the Model 3 released in Europe?  Because the earlier Teslas are crazy expensive, but it is merely expensive.  A new Model 3 starts at $35k in the states, whereas a new Leaf is 30k, so definitely in the same market. 

[Toth]

42 minutes ago, Maithanet said:

From the research I've done on it, it seems like there's a market inefficiency in that most people who buy electric cars want to buy one new.  Used electric vehicles can have battery degradation, which a lot of people don't want to mess with for their first EV.  Thus, IMO it looks like the price drops pretty considerably for an EV if you're willing to get one that is 2-3 years old.  That is my plan, I'm hoping to buy something like a 2018 Leaf or a Model 3 in a year or two.

That is true as well (which is amusing, given how easy it is to replace most batteries if they are truly worn out). I have seen used Ioniqs going around here for 22.000 Euro, the a factory new one starts at 34.000.

The cheapest Teslas I have found are 54.000 for a used Model S... which is still crazy expensive.

Here is a funny test that I had found, showing off the Ioniqs capabilities: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lA0nBKjIIrs

[Pebble thats Stubby]

16 minutes ago, Maithanet said:

Is the Model 3 released in Europe?  Because the earlier Teslas are crazy expensive, but it is merely expensive.  A new Model 3 starts at $35k in the states, whereas a new Leaf is 30k, so definitely in the same market. 

I think I read that its going to be released in the UK,  we are often about a year behind what Tesla does in the States. 

Also I'm thinking of buying secondhand and taking a chance the battery might not be as good as it should be.  as the price drops a lot.  I think I will be spending £15k max

[Fragile Bird]

Two thoughts.

I have been doing a lot of research myself and it seems like the best of both worlds is a plug-in hybrid. Of course here, north of the wall, we drive a lot further on a regular basis than you guys do. All of the UK can fit in southern Ontario and I have driven to Northern Ontario and to Quebec and the Maritimes numerous times. But having a back-up gasoline engine seems sensible. If I bought one, drives in the city should all be on a charge. And we have not reached the point yet where charging stations are very common. 

Secondly, check out who replaces batteries in your neck of the woods. Battery prices have dropped dramatically in ten years and should drop some more. When hybrids first came out there was a guy who had a fantastic business buying up hybrids with failed batteries and replacing them and re-selling, because he had the skill set and could do it cheaply. Find out who does it and what their advice is about the car easiest to service.

[HexMachina]

I know very little about cars, but my uncle works for Nissan and drives a Leaf. He makes a slightly shorter daily commute than you but always has more than sufficient battery to last. I’ve been in the car with him and its a very smooth ride and, from what he says anyhow, very easy to control. A leaf would probably be suitable for you, meeting all your needs.

That being said, with working for Ford you will presumably know of any employee perks surrounding getting a car with them. My Uncle got the Leaf because of the various incentives/promotions available to Nissan employees. If there are similar available for Ford i say go for that. I know these things are expensive so save where you can

[Pebble thats Stubby]

13 minutes ago, HelenaExMachina said:

I know very little about cars, but my uncle works for Nissan and drives a Leaf. He makes a slightly shorter daily commute than you but always has more than sufficient battery to last. I’ve been in the car with him and its a very smooth ride and, from what he says anyhow, very easy to control. A leaf would probably be suitable for you, meeting all your needs.

That being said, with working for Ford you will presumably know of any employee perks surrounding getting a car with them. My Uncle got the Leaf because of the various incentives/promotions available to Nissan employees. If there are similar available for Ford i say go for that. I know these things are expensive so save where you can

Hubby would still be driving Petrol for his cars. and I have the option of driving his everyday car if I need to.  I do that now when my car is in for a service, and he takes his fun car.  So I only need it for the shortish everyday journey to work and we have options for longer journeys so I don't need to rely on public charging points.  I wouldn't buy only electric if it was the only car I could drive at this point in time.

 

Ford does not yet make a electric or hybrid car.  yes there is some in the planning stages and have been announced but realistically that is 2-5 years down the line.  Also there is no current ford car that suits my stature - I've sat in them all.  There are some I can drive, but they are not right and have issues for me if I was to drive them all the time.  So the employee incentives are just not there for me.  I'd probably have to go back and buy a ford car that 10 years old to find one that is ergonomically nice.  The current Fiesta is ok but its still a step backwards from my old focus.  Its what I would end up settling for and not liking if I could not find something better.  Which is why I'm looking at competitor cars.   

That said I would have the employee perk of using the free electric charge points at my place of work.  I may end up loosing access to them once the Ford electric car is being made if I do go for the Leaf.

[Which Tyler]

@Maithanet (sorry, I screwed up quoting) Model S entry level £71k, easily up to double that within the Model S. "Deals" highly unlikely

Leaf entry level circa £20k, £2-3k off can be negotiated, also available second-hand, ex-demo etc

[IheartIheartTesla]

If you lived in the US I would have offered the Chevy Bolt as an alternative (cost wise and range wise it is an attractive alternative to Tesla's), but I just checked and it isnt available in the UK.

One of the things I admired about Musk (although the sheen has worn off a bit recently) was his plan to drive cross country across the US (for 'free') with a Tesla, mapping out his journey so it was always possible to be within reach of a Tesla supercharger station. I think he also wanted it to be autonomous, but I'm not sure it happened. However, as a corollary to that, here is google map's latest offering:

https://www.popularmechanics.com/cars/hybrid-electric/a27240060/google-maps-electric-charging-stations/

Quote

The service now only will allow users to search for electric vehicle charging stations in the U.S. and the U.K, but also will tell them if those chargers are currently occupied, which could save EV users valuable time and effort.

Would be interesting to see if you could travel the length of the UK (Great Britain I guess) hopping from charger to charger.

[Fragile Bird]

43 minutes ago, Pebble said:

Hubby would still be driving Petrol for his cars. and I have the option of driving his everyday car if I need to.  I do that now when my car is in for a service, and he takes his fun car.  So I only need it for the shortish everyday journey to work and we have options for longer journeys so I don't need to rely on public charging points.  I wouldn't buy only electric if it was the only car I could drive at this point in time.

 

Ford does not yet make a electric or hybrid car.  yes there is some in the planning stages and have been announced but realistically that is 2-5 years down the line.  Also there is no current ford car that suits my stature - I've sat in them all.  There are some I can drive, but they are not right and have issues for me if I was to drive them all the time.  So the employee incentives are just not there for me.  

Wow, they don’t sell their hybrid or plug-in cars in the UK? I’ve test driven the Max and it’s a nice car, though Consumer Reports is not fond of it. And their medium sized hybrid, but  I assume that’s too big. What the hell?

[Pebble thats Stubby]

3 minutes ago, Fragile Bird said:

Wow, they don’t sell their hybrid or plug-in cars in the UK? I’ve test driven the Max and it’s a nice car, though Consumer Reports is not fond of it. And their medium sized hybrid, but  I assume that’s too big. What the hell?

Ford's don't yet globally.  not just the UK.  We do have some but they are private fleet not for the general public.

We have announced today some plans to start making one based on the Mustang and one on the F150  both with a very nice range.  there are also rumours about an electric or hybrid focus coming.

[Loge]

Can't offer any first hand experience, but you really should look at cars one size smaller, e.g. "superminis" like the Renault Zoe. You say they don't fit you, but that sounds strange to me. Is it about the seating position? Surely you can adjust it to suit you? Volkswagen sells an electric version of the Golf, but I don't know anything about it. Opel/Vauxhall used to offer their version of the Bolt, but apparently that got killed after GM sold their European business to Peugeot. Renault lets you rent the battery of the Zoe, which means a lower purchasing price, but you don't really own the car. On the flip side of the coin, they promise to replace the battery when it degrades. 

[DireWolfSpirit]

14 hours ago, Pebble said:

Ford's don't yet globally.  not just the UK.  We do have some but they are private fleet not for the general public.

We have announced today some plans to start making one based on the Mustang and one on the F150  both with a very nice range.  there are also rumours about an electric or hybrid focus coming.

Yes im quite eager to see these electric F150's when they hit the market. My commute is about 50 miles daily as well. I would probably use the electric truck in warm weather and still use the gas truck in inclement weather, which in northern Wisconsin/ Mich. U.P is easily 6 mos. (insert frowny face here).

[Pebble thats Stubby]

9 hours ago, Loge said:

Can't offer any first hand experience, but you really should look at cars one size smaller, e.g. "superminis" like the Renault Zoe. You say they don't fit you, but that sounds strange to me. Is it about the seating position? Surely you can adjust it to suit you? Volkswagen sells an electric version of the Golf, but I don't know anything about it. Opel/Vauxhall used to offer their version of the Bolt, but apparently that got killed after GM sold their European business to Peugeot. Renault lets you rent the battery of the Zoe, which means a lower purchasing price, but you don't really own the car. On the flip side of the coin, they promise to replace the battery when it degrades. 

I'm like really short.  I'm mostly familiar with Ford Cars since I work for them.  I've sat in every current model.  I have the following baseline criteria for buying a car.

1.  Can I reach the peddles, and see over the steering wheel at the same time?

2. Once the seat is adjusted forward and up enough is the Steering wheel more than 1 inch from my chest?  (really needs to be a minimum of 6 inches)

3.  Can I get in and out of the car without having to adjust the seat every single time?

4.  Can I adjust the seat while sitting in it?  A lot of cars I can't reach to position bar once the seat is raised, sometimes I can't even reach the height adjustment once its raised.  (ie  if I need the parking space is very tight I will need to move the seat back so I don't need to open the door very wide)

5.  Is there anything really annoying blocking my vision?  In cars with very sloppy windscreens (which seems to be the main style these days) the beam between the windscreen and door is often wider and with my seat as far forward as it creates another blind spot.  I can move my head into a different position to see round it, but not something I want in my primary car.

6.  Can I reach the handbrake and gear stick comfortably or are they behind me?

7. Can I reach the in car gadgets while driving?  ie adjust the temperature,  I've driven a car before where I would need to pull over, take the seat belt off so I could learn and over just to adjust the fan settings.

8.  Can I close the boot if its opened fully without needing to jump?

 

These are the basics I actually have to consider.  I believe most people take them for granted they don't even think about them.   Then I can think about what the car is actually like, but by now my choices are rather limited.  My Mum who is 2 inches taller than me can fit comfortable into a lot more cars.

 

1 and 2 is a must for any car I drive ever.  The rest is a must for any car I actually own.  The Fiesta and KA fail on 4 and 5 and though the vision blocking is more borderline with them.  In the Focus the vision is worse, the handbrake while reachable is uncomfortable to use and I must not let go of the boot door if I'm alone.  The Ecosport met all of the criteria other then my feet dangled over the peddles.  Mondeo  I have major problems with 3, 5, 6, 7 and 8.

The Renault Zoe is no good cos you have to lease the battery and my mileage is so far over their limit its ridiculous.  I will be trying out other Electric cars before I buy.

[Loge]

1 hour ago, Pebble said:

I'm like really short.  I'm mostly familiar with Ford Cars since I work for them.  I've sat in every current model.  I have the following baseline criteria for buying a car.

1.  Can I reach the peddles, and see over the steering wheel at the same time?

2. Once the seat is adjusted forward and up enough is the Steering wheel more than 1 inch from my chest?  (really needs to be a minimum of 6 inches)

3.  Can I get in and out of the car without having to adjust the seat every single time?

4.  Can I adjust the seat while sitting in it?  A lot of cars I can't reach to position bar once the seat is raised, sometimes I can't even reach the height adjustment once its raised.  (ie  if I need the parking space is very tight I will need to move the seat back so I don't need to open the door very wide)

5.  Is there anything really annoying blocking my vision?  In cars with very sloppy windscreens (which seems to be the main style these days) the beam between the windscreen and door is often wider and with my seat as far forward as it creates another blind spot.  I can move my head into a different position to see round it, but not something I want in my primary car.

6.  Can I reach the handbrake and gear stick comfortably or are they behind me?

7. Can I reach the in car gadgets while driving?  ie adjust the temperature,  I've driven a car before where I would need to pull over, take the seat belt off so I could learn and over just to adjust the fan settings.

8.  Can I close the boot if its opened fully without needing to jump?

 

These are the basics I actually have to consider.  I believe most people take them for granted they don't even think about them.   Then I can think about what the car is actually like, but by now my choices are rather limited.  My Mum who is 2 inches taller than me can fit comfortable into a lot more cars.

 

1 and 2 is a must for any car I drive ever.  The rest is a must for any car I actually own.  The Fiesta and KA fail on 4 and 5 and though the vision blocking is more borderline with them.  In the Focus the vision is worse, the handbrake while reachable is uncomfortable to use and I must not let go of the boot door if I'm alone.  The Ecosport met all of the criteria other then my feet dangled over the peddles.  Mondeo  I have major problems with 3, 5, 6, 7 and 8.

The Renault Zoe is no good cos you have to lease the battery and my mileage is so far over their limit its ridiculous.  I will be trying out other Electric cars before I buy.

Usually the steering wheel can be adjusted as well as the seat so your problems finding a decent seating position are a bit surprising. Maybe there's something about Ford that their cars don't fit you? Have you tried other brands? Regarding the Zoe, Renault offers a rental battery with unlimited mileage (at higher rent) and you can buy the battery as well.