Avengers Endgame- SPOILERS

[HokieStone]

Just saw it...still processing it.  I did not like it as much as Infinity War.  Even though we all knew it was coming...I still don't like the time travel stuff.  Too many questions moving forward.  I guess all of Peter Parker's classmates were snapped...since we see them all in the trailer for Spiderman 2?  I haven't read the whole thread, but I'm sure people have brought up most of the issues.  What about folks who did manage to move on, and did things like get remarried?  Suddenly their 5-year gone spouse shows up.  And then there's Cap - how far did he go back to reunite with Peggy?  I guess to 1970, since that's where they ended up getting the Tesseract from?  Did he just sit out everything in the last 50+ years?  And Loki, and Gamora....

 

[mcbigski]

So did Hawkeye keep paying for his family cell phone plan through the whole five year gap?  I suppose if her phone got undusted it would still be charged but I didn't find it terribly plausible that the call would get through.  How did the fox movies handle cell phone contracts?

[HokieStone]

Two other random thoughts that just occurred to me, related to the TV side of the MCU -

1)  I really enjoyed the cameo of Jarvis from "Agent Carter"

2)  Again, with the 5 year jump - how will that affect "Agents of Shield".  They've waited to start their next season, and I think most people assumed that was so they could wait for Endgame to play out - and then assuming everything was put back in order, "AoS" could pick back up.  But now we know that the affects of the snap were not cleanly erased.  So, will "AoS" take place during the 5 years where half the world was snapped...or will they jump ahead 5 years as well?  I know that there has seemed to be a distancing between the TV side of things and the movie side of things, but even in the last few episodes of "AoS", they were referencing "Infinity War" (I think there was a throwaway line about "have you seen the craziness happening in NYC?") 

 

[briantw]

Adding Thor to Guardians of the Galaxy is the greatest thing ever.  Glad they're keeping Hemsworth around because he's just killing that role now that he gets to be dumb Thor.  

[The Anti-Targ]

I get the feeling he's now unworthy Thor, since he's completely abandoned his responsibilities to protect Asgard. But that's OK, because Stormbreaker doesn't need you to be worthy.

So, the GoTG script was already written, does that mean Gunn knew how things would go with Thor and has written a script accordingly? Or will there be re-writes, or will he be explained as being elsewhere and not appear? I think if GoTG are going to face off with Adam Warlock, they possibly need Thor

[sifth]

So here's the thing that's been driving me nuts.

 

Captain Marvel's mid credit scene does not line up with her entrance in this film. Was the mid credit scene edited out of this movie or something?

 

The also completely break their own time travel rules, once old Steve show up.

 

Aside from those two minor gripes, I really liked this film though.

[Bastard of Boston]

21 minutes ago, sifth said:

So here's the thing that's been driving me nuts.

 

Captain Marvel's mid credit scene does not line up with her entrance in this film. Was the mid credit scene edited out of this movie or something?

 

The also completely break their own time travel rules, once old Steve show up.

 

Aside from those two minor gripes, I really liked this film though.

That mid-credits scene was her first time meeting the Avengers. In this movie, when she rescued Stark, she had already been working with them. Moreover, she probably went to save Stark because she specifically worked with the Avengers to locate where he was.

How does old Steve break their rules? I think he only breaks the rules if you believe he had been living his life with Peggy in timeline prime. I don't think that was the case. I think the only weird thing was that he didn't appear on the platform, meaning he must have used another method of travel to come back.

[ants]

21 hours ago, DaveSumm said:

....,,,,,

Totally forgot to mention this: how about the universe where Thor has to finish up Thor 2 without Mjolnir?! Our Thor just straight up stole it and didn’t return it. Maybe Cap had to defeat the Dark Elves to?

I’m pretty sure Cap had it when he went back, so he presumably returned it with the power stone. 

[sifth]

17 minutes ago, Bastard of Boston said:

That mid-credits scene was her first time meeting the Avengers. In this movie, when she rescued Stark, she had already been working with them. Moreover, she probably went to save Stark because she specifically worked with the Avengers to locate where he was.

How does old Steve break their rules? I think he only breaks the rules if you believe he had been living his life with Peggy in timeline prime. I don't think that was the case. I think the only weird thing was that he didn't appear on the platform, meaning he must have used another method of travel to come back.

When is it ever established that she's working with them already? I mean how would any of those characters even know Tony was lost in space to begin with? This seems a lot like you're using your own fan fiction to fill in plot holes. I mean literally the first thing she says once they tell her about Thanos in this film is "I'm gona go kill him". She would have done that the moment she found out Fury was gone.

The movie was using "multiverse theory" for the entirety of it's run. In which case the events of one timeline have no effect on the other. Case and point; GotG Thanos dies at the end of this film, yet the current timeline remains the same. Steve living in the past, is equal to him living in an alternate reality, where Thanos never gets all the stones and snaps anyone out of existence. In that version of reality, Thanos just vanishes into a portal in 2014 and is never seen again. All of this made perfect sense, until old Steve randomly shows up, which would happen in the "one timeline theory", which is impossible by the rules established earlier in the film.

[Bastard of Boston]

4 minutes ago, sifth said:

When is it ever established that she's working with them already? I mean how would any of those characters even know Tony was lost in space to begin with? This seems a lot like you're using your own fan fiction to fill in plot holes. I mean literally the first thing she says once they tell her about Thanos in this film is "I'm gona go kill him". She would have done that the moment she found out Fury was gone.

The movie was using "multiverse theory" for the entirety of it's run. In which case the events of one timeline have no effect on the other. Case and point; GotG Thanos dies at the end of this film, yet the current timeline remains the same. Steve living in the past, is equal to him living in an alternate reality, where Thanos never gets all the stones and snaps anyone out of existence. In that version of reality, Thanos just vanishes into a portal in 2014 and is never seen again. All of this made perfect sense, until old Steve randomly shows up, which would happen in the "one timeline theory", which is impossible by the rules established earlier in the film.

One person's hole is another person's "It's not that important." Yes, I'm using my own rationale to fill in a blank, but that's not really problematic if the detail is minor. Maybe one of Tony's distress signals actually reached Earth. By you stating what Carol would've done the moment she found out about Fury, aren't you essentially attributing your own fanfic? Ironing out the details of how 50% of the universe is gone, IMO, is as pressing a concern as getting revenge on Thanos. Maybe Carol was assisting in resolving any number of natural and unnatural disasters stemming from the snap. When we meet them in the conference, it's quite possible it's the first time they'd even gotten to a point where discussing a Thanos plan was a thing.

I'm still not getting how old Steve showing up in prime time is a problem. Young Steve travelled to the past, stood in that timeline, and lived an entire life with Peggy. When he hit a certain age, maybe once his Peggy died, he decided to come back to the prime timeline. Probably because he felt guilty about disappearing on everyone. It falls in line with what was asserted -- time can't be changed, only divergent branches to new existences.

[Mosi Mynn]

4 hours ago, The Anti-Targ said:

Also another big question: Oscar-worthy for best picture? I think it will get a nomination. Still not sure the biz is ready to give spandex action the big prize.

Just thinking, clearing the decks of the 3 leaders in the Avengers (Cap, Stark, Widow) really leaves the field clear for Carol and Fury to take up the leadership mantle. Will Sam Jackson carry on though?

I would for either just this film or the MCU as a whole to get some recognition. 

Carol might be a leader - before this I thought she would be Cap's replacement. But with her commitments to the rest of the universe I'm not sure she can be now.  I see T'Challa, Dr Strange and Sam as the new leaders. 

[red snow]

5 hours ago, Ser Scot A Ellison said:

Is there any explanation for why there is no intermission in a film this long?

It's not that much longer than many other films? Over the course of a day they can get another 1-2 screenings in. Some people's bladders/attention can last 3 hours. But there should definitely be an option for screenings with an intermission.

 

7 hours ago, 3CityApache said:

Am I the only one bothered by the way the Soul Stone is being collected? "You have to sacrifice someone you love, Soul for a Soul", I get it. It worked for Thanos and Gamora, it even showed us he actually genuinely loved her. 

But Clint and Nat? Come on. They were close, they shared a history, they were really fond of each other, sure. But love? I don't think so. They didn't love each other, they were just friends. 

And anyway, what would have happened, if the person seeking the Stone appeared on Vormir single handedly? 

Other than that, a great movie and a lot to process. 

They spent 5 minutes arguing/fighting over who got to die for the other - I'd say that speaks of a very strong connection. 

Part of me was hoping they'd just throw the red skull in.

Also if you return the soul stone, shouldn't you get a soul back? Otherwise it's a high rental price.

I read an article about cap staying in his past and how, unless it's an alternate past, it pretty much means he turns his back on the fact Hydra secretly runs the world for 60 years. I mean he may have secretly done things to mitigate this as far as we know and maybe he's been running the secret avengers all that time. Which is hiw i choose to see it.

I wonder how many years they'll be able to go without plucking cap, stark snd widow out of s timeline for a guest appearance? I'm also curious how long the MCU will continue without these characters being recast. At this point i think it'll continue for as long as feige is in charge. Which is cool as we are getting something the comics have never had the guts to try - an ageing marvel universe. 

[Jeor]

1 hour ago, Mosi Mynn said:

I would for either just this film or the MCU as a whole to get some recognition. 

Carol might be a leader - before this I thought she would be Cap's replacement. But with her commitments to the rest of the universe I'm not sure she can be now.  I see T'Challa, Dr Strange and Sam as the new leaders. 

I think Sam is the most likely to be the actual leader (though there's nothing to prevent the other two being spiritual leaders in the sense of their experience). T'Challa has Wakanda to worry about (unless Shuri acts as a permanent regent) and Strange's home is the Sanctum Sanctorum where he has to protect Earth from mystical threats. Plus Strange gives off more of a loner vibe, I feel like he would act as more of a "consultant".

[The Anti-Targ]

1 hour ago, Mosi Mynn said:

I would for either just this film or the MCU as a whole to get some recognition. 

Carol might be a leader - before this I thought she would be Cap's replacement. But with her commitments to the rest of the universe I'm not sure she can be now.  I see T'Challa, Dr Strange and Sam as the new leaders. 

Carol can sort of be anywhere in a reasonably short timeframe, so why not be based on Earth? Also the Tony Stark funeral scene with here standing alone on the steps looking over everyone, and then Fury walking up beside her felt like a passing of the torch sort of thing. Actually I'd see Rhodey as a leader too, more so than Sam. For some reason I see Sam as more of a foot soldier.

Avengers pretty much should be a multinational org. So T'Challa leads the Europe/Africa office from his home. As King he can't really move to NY.

12 minutes ago, red snow said:

I read an article about cap staying in his past and how, unless it's an alternate past, it pretty much means he turns his back on the fact Hydra secretly runs the world for 60 years. I mean he may have secretly done things to mitigate this as far as we know and maybe he's been running the secret avengers all that time. Which is hiw i choose to see it.

 

It's not a very good time travel theory article then. People who have detailed knowledge of the future because they are placed out of time have a grave responsibility to not interfere. Cap thinks he's thwarting Hydra, but in doing so, maybe Tony's parents aren't murdered by Bucky, so Tony doesn't take over the company, never gets kidnapped and have a piece of shrapnel stuck in his heart, never becomes Iron Man etc etc. Did the writer of the article learn nothing from the brief explanation for why you can't just go back and kill baby Thanos?

The way I imagine it, Cap pretty much has to lead an almost reclusive life, with only Peggy clued in, and even then a strict pact for her to never share work stuff with him, and him to never suggest things she should do.

[DaveSumm]

3 hours ago, mcbigski said:

How did the fox movies handle cell phone contracts?

Similar to the discussion we had before the movie came out about why people bothered putting up missing posters, I can imagine that all sorts of people were genuinely missing after the snap in the chaos. Some phone companies maybe disconnected, then everyone was all ‘don’t you fucking dare, I’m still holding out hope’ so they left them up as a sign of respect.

Or, Clint has his home phone in as his wife, seeing as if he’s not there, that’s who’d be calling him. 

[karaddin]

Or knowing they were about to try bring everyone back, Clint reactivated his wifes phone right before the mission, If you want to get into it there are plenty of potential head canons

[DaveSumm]

1 hour ago, Bastard of Boston said:

One person's hole is another person's "It's not that important." Yes, I'm using my own rationale to fill in a blank, but that's not really problematic if the detail is minor.

I don’t see how it’s a hole at all: they couldn’t have a scene where Carol goes “hey guys good to see you again” because that would confuse people who hadn’t seen Captain Marvel. Plus it’s far less likely that Carol just happens across Tony and Nebula. No, she is summoned by the pager, then the mid-credit scene, then the scene where she rescues Tony, then they all return. Then they skip a bit of time after Pepper and Tony hug, so if you haven’t seen Captain Marvel you can assume they’ve introduced themselves, and if you have, then they didn’t. Works for both audiences.

[DaveSumm]

6 hours ago, The Anti-Targ said:

I went to the movie with my comic geek, physics PhD brother and for him the best line in the movie was the Deutsch prescription, since it's an actual thing, and he thought the movie used it reasonably well.

Oh shit, that’s awesome ... I loved how they used time travel because it reminded me of David Deutsch’s version in The Fabric of Reality, but I didn’t realise they actually name-checked it. I’ll have to reread, but I don’t remember anything about how Infinity Stones work...

[The Anti-Targ]

The only timeline problem with the Cap scene at the end is the shield. Did he get Peggy to get Howard Stark to make a spare because he knew the OG shield would be destroyed? I guess that's and OK explanation.

I hope Thor gave Cap a detailed map of the palace at Asgard so he'd know exactly where to go to re-inject Jane with the Aether, and to drop of Mjolnir in the most appropriate place.

I'm also assuming the end credits scene in Captain Marvel happened just prior to the start of Endgame, and Cap and Widow told Carol where she could find Stark to rescue him. Carol has no other reason for being in that viscinity.

[HokieStone]

Yeah....the last several comments, and the competing "head canon" that people have to use to explain things is why feel this sense of disappointment, I think.  Really wish they hadn't gone the time travel route.