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UK Politics: Awaiting MV3


Which Tyler

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Just a short link, for a longer read. Yes, it's Ian Dunt, again.

This time he takes some time to discuss Frogface's new party.

Similarities to some posts here are of course purely incidental.

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[...]

They pound a relentless drumbeat of betrayal, humiliation and destruction. Theresa May's deal "would only have been signed by a country that had been defeated in war", Farage said at a recent rally. The country was "humbled… humiliated". The "democratic process has been willfully betrayed". The political class are "treacherous".

So that's the combination: an absence of rational political content, an overabundance of emotional content, and a narrative frame focused on betrayal and humiliation.

Then the emotional part kicks in. Emotions can't be assessed or challenged. They cannot be falsified or refuted. They are simply felt or they are not. There is no human improvement that can take place through a political debate conducted exclusively through feelings.

What are the emotions Farage encourages? Is it love and the common brotherhood of man? Hell, no. It is the same old story we always get from nationalist authoritarians: division and hatred. The nation is pure and good, but it is besieged from outside by enemies and inside by traitors. The shadowy elite are conspiring in the nation's decline. 

It's no coincidence Farage appeared on the insane InfoWars programme with the conspiracy theorist Alex Jones recently. His worldview is drenched in waist-deep conspiracy gibberish.

[...]

Once you start paying attention, it quickly becomes clear that almost everything Farage says is a conspiracy theory. A Remain parliament stopped Brexit, he says, even though the vast majority of MPs want Brexit to happen and the deal would have gotten through if it wasn't for hardline Brexiter MPs. May herself is branded a Remainer, despite her every word being about delivering Brexit. So either MPs are secretely pursuing a Remain plot, or the prime minister is. 

Note how both outcomes - Brexit happening and Brexit not happening - are a betrayal by some form of Remain conspiracy, either in parliament or Downing Street. We hear these lies so often we start to accept them as normal, but once you question them it is clear what they are. They're conspiracy theory. They're exactly the kind of babbling nonsense Alex Jones is always screaming about on his internet show.

That's the headline conspiracy, but Farage has another one for almost every aspect of society. At one recent rally he insisted young people opposed Brexit because of the "constant bias, prejudice and brainwashing" in British universities, and then insisted educational institutions were systematically marking-down students who supported leaving the EU.

 

[...]

Who can you trust? No-one. What information can you rely on? None at all. There's just the party and its leader, who offer you emotional reassurance without any intellectual component for you to evaluate it. Your capacity for individual judgement is whittled away. The trust is not based on testable propositions, like policies and argument, but on feelings.

They call themselves patriots, but in truth the Brexit party opposes the values which might make anyone truly proud to be British: the ability to scrutinise power, the triumph of reason over passion in political discourse, and the rejection of conspiracy theory. They're in a war not just against other political parties, but against our whole way of doing things.

 

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Was Bloom wrong to throw this term around like confetti? Was Tennant wrong to applaud him doing so? Yes or no?

I did address it. I've repeatedly said I don't agree with his actions, nor should they be congratulated and that they were idiotic. It doesn't make him a Nazi however, nor does someone liking it on Facebook. 

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If you think the Brexit party isn't absolutely riddled with people who support a Nazi ideology, you're in denial. 

I'm not aware of anyone in the Brexit party calling for racial genocide, but if the Guardian wants to cover that rather than implying people are nazis for liking something someone once said then I'm fine them doing that.

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Again, using a Nazi slogan in public is not normal behaviour.

Not normal is not the same as being a Nazi. The Guardian created the association with its wording. 

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Can you point me to any example of you criticising dishonest reporting about, say, Michel Barnier?

The only reason I am commenting on this at all is because someone posted up the link on here as a way of proving their own view of something, I'm pointing out the dishonesty in the headline and the reporting. 

But as a recent example I might mention that I recently saw a panel section with Change UKs Gavin Estler and the Brexit Parties Martin Daubney. Daubney misrepresented Estler's comments, saying he called Brexit supporters Village idiots. Estler did not say this, and Daubney got this from a poorly written Huff Post article. It made Daubney look stupid and I would say the conversation was quite dishonest on Daubneys part. 

Actually a lot of Brexit evangelists talk absolute rot and completely misrepresent the situation, mischaracterise the EU and members of its Parliament. Its unfortunate that there are so many of these types of people around the campaign. But I don't bother posting about this because there are more than enough Remainers here to do it for me.

That doesn't mean I think being in the EU is best for Britain or that there isn't a lot to criticise about the EU. 

 

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I'll go ahead that the hivemind is in agreement on this, and case closed, but let's throw it out there in case anyone wants to say their piece.

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-48212693

The BBC has sacked Danny Baker, saying he showed a "serious error of judgement" over his tweet about the Duke and Duchess of Sussex's baby.

The tweet, which he later deleted but which has been circulated on social media, showed an image of a couple holding hands with a chimpanzee dressed in clothes with the caption: "Royal Baby leaves hospital".

...

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7 minutes ago, Which Tyler said:

I'll go ahead that the hivemind is in agreement on this, and case closed, but let's throw it out there in case anyone wants to say their price.

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-48212693

The BBC has sacked Danny Baker, saying he showed a "serious error of judgement" over his tweet about the Duke and Duchess of Sussex's baby.

The tweet, which he later deleted but which has been circulated on social media, showed an image of a couple holding hands with a chimpanzee dressed in clothes with the caption: "Royal Baby leaves hospital".

...

And on that note, I’ll link a NPR podcast from this morning examining what it’s going to be like, growing up as a biracial royal, and about growing up biracial in general. Well worth a listen.

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27 minutes ago, Which Tyler said:

I'll go ahead that the hivemind is in agreement on this, and case closed, but let's throw it out there in case anyone wants to say their piece.

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-48212693

The BBC has sacked Danny Baker, saying he showed a "serious error of judgement" over his tweet about the Duke and Duchess of Sussex's baby.

The tweet, which he later deleted but which has been circulated on social media, showed an image of a couple holding hands with a chimpanzee dressed in clothes with the caption: "Royal Baby leaves hospital".

...

Can't say I'm surprised. He's always been an odious twat. But he's no idiot, and for a man as plugged-in as he is, there's no way he's unaware of Archie's heritage, not to mention the vile racist abuse Meghan's already been subjected to. 

The way some of the Gammons are reacting to his plight is hilarious tho. 

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8 minutes ago, Spockydog said:

Can't say I'm surprised. He's always been an odious twat. But he's no idiot, and for a man as plugged-in as he is, there's no way he's unaware of Archie's heritage, not to mention the vile racist abuse Meghan's already been subjected to. 

The way some of the Gammons are reacting to his plight is hilarious tho. 

 

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5 minutes ago, Soylent Brown said:

It'd be nice if people could leave the tweets of their favourite far-right Twitter trolls in their own feed, rather than polluting this thread with them.

Far right? Lol.

The tweet seemed pretty appropriate given some of the comments. 

I notice even arch lefty James o’brien has come to the defence of Danny Baker. He must be a racist then as well I guess.

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Baker claiming he didn't know which princess was having a baby that day. Is there more than one British princess having a baby this month?

Is Baker known to be an anti-Royal UK republican in general? I can understand a general approach of frequently posting images of royals as bludging monkeys. But if this isn't part of a pattern of posting royals = monkeys I can't see any kind of credible defense, except for his apologists.

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10 minutes ago, The Anti-Targ said:

Is Baker known to be an anti-Royal UK republican in general? 

No. But he is an avid supporter of a football team whose fans regularly engage in monkey chants during games. Plus, he's lived in this country for sixty odd years. He knows what he did was racist.

And shame on James O'Brien for giving him the benefit of the doubt.

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3 hours ago, Soylent Brown said:

The tweet is from a dipshit mocking the situation in an attempt to provoke a reaction, which judging from his timeline is something as important to him as oxygen. It offers nothing useful as far as discussion of the Baker situation goes - he has no interest in defending Baker, he's defending casual racism.

I'm getting some deja vu like I've seen this sort of behavior before, can't imagine where from though. Can you?

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6 hours ago, The Anti-Targ said:

Baker claiming he didn't know which princess was having a baby that day. Is there more than one British princess having a baby this month?

Is Baker known to be an anti-Royal UK republican in general? I can understand a general approach of frequently posting images of royals as bludging monkeys. But if this isn't part of a pattern of posting royals = monkeys I can't see any kind of credible defense, except for his apologists.

He frequently posts pictures of posh people as monkeys so it’s pretty consistent with that behaviour. 

However, my guess is that he posted it deliberately because he hated having a career and a life and wanted to throw it all down the toilet and be ruined. 

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Baker's behaviour was so stupid that me may even be telling the truth. But, really, you'd have to brain dead not to realise that posting monkey images in relation to Meghan Markle is deeply racist.

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The fact that he took it down as soon as someone said it was racist makes me think he may be telling the truth, especially if there is evidence of him historically suggesting rich, privileged fuckers are chimp like.  Even moreso as if it was a conscious decision, he had to know he was getting sacked in about 5 seconds. 

I think its bizarre that people assume he must have known just because they know, that's not how things work. 

Has he got any history of this sort of thing (racism, not stupidity)? 

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2 hours ago, Heartofice said:

He frequently posts pictures of posh people as monkeys so it’s pretty consistent with that behaviour. 

Does he? I've not seen anyone say that before. 

But regardless, for me what sealed the deal was his non-apology. It was yet another classic example of someone defending themselves and claiming it was an apology. That's not what an apology is. 

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43 minutes ago, Heartofice said:

It was mentioned numerous times in the article I posted and also on the news.

I challenge you to present evidence of this phenomenon. It might have been mentioned in the news, but I've just scrolled through his twitter and didn't see any monkeys. Google has nothing either.

His username is prodnose. Have at it.

 

 

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Eh, I'm prepared to believe that he's done it before. But that makes him guilty of, not intentional racism, but posting the pic in complete obliviousness of something that in his position he really should have known: and obliviousness to racism that apparent is racism too, in that it is an example of racial insensitivity. 

And, see earlier remarks about his non-apologies. There's just too much of what he's said since that tries to downplay the incident, or his culpability, or to cast himself as the victim. 

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