mormont Posted May 10, 2019 Share Posted May 10, 2019 41 minutes ago, Heartofice said: There is a difference because this is all a matter of interpretation and intent. Whoever dressed the kid up in a monkey jumper at Benetton wasn’t consciously trying to make a racist statement, they simply hadn’t considered that some people might make a racial connection. They had been pretty oblivious to this. It might be considered racially insensitive by some and by others it isn’t. But the intent wasn’t to be racist. We can’t just exclude intent from all these discussions. What you seem to be missing is that I've conceded, right from the start, that this doesn't seem likely to have been intentional. And that I have drawn, and do draw, a distinction between intentional racism and unintentional racism. However, unintentional racism is still racism. And, even within that category, there are definitely degrees. It's like car accidents. Some might be caused by a momentary loss of attention. Others are caused by drivers speeding towards a blind curve while trying to read a map and talk on the phone. Neither involve intent. But they're not the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heartofice Posted May 10, 2019 Share Posted May 10, 2019 2 minutes ago, mormont said: However, unintentional racism is still racism. And, even within that category, there are definitely degrees. It's like car accidents. Some might be caused by a momentary loss of attention. Others are caused by drivers speeding towards a blind curve while trying to read a map and talk on the phone. Neither involve intent. But they're not the same. I agree there are degrees and the punishment should fit the crime. An honest mistake, where someone has inadvertently said or done something that could be taken in a way other than intended should be treated with an appropriate punishment. I don’t think we are there as a society however , the urge to take everything in the worst possible faith and to delight in the destruction of others is strong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigFatCoward Posted May 10, 2019 Share Posted May 10, 2019 I'm sure that Harry can see the funny side. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Impmk2 Posted May 10, 2019 Share Posted May 10, 2019 In 2019 if you don't know that publicly posting that picture would considered racist you're a liability and probably too stupid to be employed. At least certainly not in any kind of high profile position. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heartofice Posted May 10, 2019 Share Posted May 10, 2019 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HexMachina Posted May 10, 2019 Share Posted May 10, 2019 I don’t see colour man... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spockydog Posted May 10, 2019 Share Posted May 10, 2019 12 minutes ago, Heartofice said: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nevarfeather Posted May 10, 2019 Share Posted May 10, 2019 well that's a nice demo of what a PR team can do for you.... cynical? moi? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mormont Posted May 10, 2019 Share Posted May 10, 2019 I'll say this, though: one argument I do accept is that it's hypocritical for the BBC to fire Baker on the same day they have Farage on Question Time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heartofice Posted May 10, 2019 Share Posted May 10, 2019 1 minute ago, mormont said: I'll say this, though: one argument I do accept is that it's hypocritical for the BBC to fire Baker on the same day they have Farage on Question Time. I’d say Alan Sugars joke about the Cameroon football team is far worse than Bakers because there is no possibility of misinterpreting it and it was clearly racist. He still seems to be employed by them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Werthead Posted May 10, 2019 Share Posted May 10, 2019 4 minutes ago, mormont said: I'll say this, though: one argument I do accept is that it's hypocritical for the BBC to fire Baker on the same day they have Farage on Question Time. And still have Sugar knocking around, plus they interviewed Ben Shapiro the other day (who got so pissed off at being asked factual questions that he called Andrew Neil left-wing, which Neil had tremendous fun with). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heartofice Posted May 10, 2019 Share Posted May 10, 2019 3 minutes ago, Werthead said: And still have Sugar knocking around, plus they interviewed Ben Shapiro the other day (who got so pissed off at being asked factual questions that he called Andrew Neil left-wing, which Neil had tremendous fun with). I pretty much hate Shapiro but is he racist? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Werthead Posted May 10, 2019 Share Posted May 10, 2019 4 minutes ago, Heartofice said: I pretty much hate Shapiro but is he racist? His comments about Muslims suggest the answer to this is a firm yes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heartofice Posted May 10, 2019 Share Posted May 10, 2019 36 minutes ago, Werthead said: His comments about Muslims suggest the answer to this is a firm yes. Fair enough. I heard Neil took him to pieces though so glad he was on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mormont Posted May 10, 2019 Share Posted May 10, 2019 I once got drunk with Andrew Neil in a student flat while arguing politics and literature. He was wearing mustard-yellow braces with a pink shirt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A Horse Named Stranger Posted May 10, 2019 Share Posted May 10, 2019 4 hours ago, BigFatCoward said: I'm sure that Harry can see the funny side. Well, I also recall him wearing a Nazi-uniform at some party once. So at least teenage Harry did not strike me as particular sensitive. Before that discussion starts. No, it's not intended to be whataboutism. And yes, there's a difference between what a stupid teenager does, and what some sixty year old does. The latter should (at least in theory) have a better awareness of what they do, the implications, and the consequences. Just wanted to randomly bring it up, as it took quite a while before he got off my (quite inconsenquential) shitlist, and I just had to think of those pictures again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mormont Posted May 10, 2019 Share Posted May 10, 2019 Yeah, we've all agreed to just forget Harry's teenage hijinks. Certain people get second chances in our society. I'm sure Danny Baker's will come if he just waits for a decent interval. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigFatCoward Posted May 10, 2019 Share Posted May 10, 2019 Was he a teenager when he referred go his colleague as a 'paki'? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mormont Posted May 10, 2019 Share Posted May 10, 2019 I had genuinely forgotten about that one. He was 21. https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/prince-harry-called-a-fellow-soldier-his-little-paki-friend-1299804.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeanF Posted May 10, 2019 Share Posted May 10, 2019 I think he did a lot of growing up, in the army. Prior to that, he was a bit of a twit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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