Spockydog Posted May 14, 2019 Share Posted May 14, 2019 4 minutes ago, Heartofice said: Firstly he wasn’t advocating for the US system from what I can see. There is a common assumption that anyone calling for NHS reform is wanting to copy the US system but I’ve not seen anyone asking for it. But yes it’s far more likely he has ideological reasons for his preference rather than wanting a few more quid in his wallet. He used to be quite open about this. In fact, he wrote a fucking book about it. Only problem is, now he knows that shit won't fly with the British public, he's trying to con people into believing that he doesn't want to enrich himself and his chums by destroying the NHS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heartofice Posted May 14, 2019 Share Posted May 14, 2019 9 minutes ago, Spockydog said: He used to be quite open about this. In fact, he wrote a fucking book about it. Only problem is, now he knows that shit won't fly with the British public, he's trying to con people into believing that he doesn't want to enrich himself and his chums by destroying the NHS. Which book is this? I can’t say I’ve read any of his books.. I don’t imagine they are that enlightening. What does it say in those books. If he is advocating for a US style healthcare system as opposed to just having more private company involvement then I’m happy to be proved wrong. What I am much more interested in is the original claim that he’s doing it all to enrich himself ( especially as he’s not really doing much campaigning for NHS reform, being more concerned seemingly with Brexit at the moment) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mormont Posted May 14, 2019 Share Posted May 14, 2019 29 minutes ago, Heartofice said: What I am much more interested in is the original claim that he’s doing it all to enrich himself I mean, the evidence for that is in the original clip. Even while trying to obfuscate his actual position and dodge the issue of whether he wants an all-insured system, Farage openly says that he wants incentives for people like him to buy insurance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heartofice Posted May 14, 2019 Share Posted May 14, 2019 Just now, mormont said: I mean, the evidence for that is in the original clip. Even while trying to obfuscate his actual position and dodge the issue of whether he wants an all-insured system, Farage openly says that he wants incentives for people like him to buy insurance. What is that evidence of? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mormont Posted May 14, 2019 Share Posted May 14, 2019 36 minutes ago, Heartofice said: What is that evidence of? Personal gain. I mean, I have no doubt - none at all - that Farage, an investment banker who made money from currency movements caused by the referendum result, would make money in other ways from a move to a US healthcare system, principally by buying shares in US healthcare and health insurance companies. But right there in the interview, he's blatant about the fact that he thinks government policy should be such that it personally benefits him, and he even puts it in those terms. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heartofice Posted May 14, 2019 Share Posted May 14, 2019 4 minutes ago, mormont said: But right there in the interview, he's blatant about the fact that he thinks government policy should be such that it personally benefits him, and he even puts it in those terms. Where does it say that. I didn't see that once in the interview. What he said was that he wants people like him to be encouraged to take up private health care in order to take the burden off the NHS. How is that about personal enrichment? 8 minutes ago, mormont said: principally by buying shares in US healthcare and health insurance companies. There would be nothing stopping you doing that as well. So apart from conjecture because someone appears to have invested in stuff in the past (something everyone with any sort of financial sense should be doing) there doesn't really appear to be any evidence of anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heartofice Posted May 14, 2019 Share Posted May 14, 2019 4 minutes ago, Soylent Brown said: Given that the Brexit party is blatantly a vehicle for harvesting donations from gullible idiots and getting him his £80k/pa doss job back, it's utterly demented how wilfully blind you are toward Farage's motivations (i.e. money and bigotry). I'm pretty sure the Brexit party is blatantly a wildly popular protest party fuelled mainly by the governments incompetence over Brexit. You and others keep making blind statements about his motivations without a jot of evidence, and you seem to be mainly fuelled by your own hatred. Its pretty easy to see why people like Farage get popular when you see statements like those made above by you and other people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A Horse Named Stranger Posted May 14, 2019 Share Posted May 14, 2019 5 minutes ago, Soylent Brown said: Given that the Brexit party is blatantly a vehicle for harvesting donations from gullible idiots and getting him his £80k/pa doss job back, it's utterly demented how wilfully blind you are toward Farage's motivations (i.e. money and bigotry). Well, I am alwys in favour of trying the simplest explanation first. In his case, maybe he just shares Frogface's views, and admitting that Frogface is a racist bigot, who wants to gain monetarily from his bigoted racist views, would just mean that the poster in question would have to face his own racism and bigotry. I can see how this would feel quite uncomfortable. Anyway, can't we just go back to the simpler days in the football forum, with having some fun about Liverpool being run by a donkey and crowded with championship players still finishing with the third highest points total in EPL history? Feels more somewhat more comfortable than agreeing with you on politics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heartofice Posted May 14, 2019 Share Posted May 14, 2019 Lol, sometimes this forum is a microcosm of why Brexit happened. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heartofice Posted May 14, 2019 Share Posted May 14, 2019 Yep, rabid stereotyping of anyone who doesn't agree with you, coupled with over reaction, conspiracy theory and misrepresentation.. it's kind of all there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heartofice Posted May 14, 2019 Share Posted May 14, 2019 5 minutes ago, Soylent Brown said: Your hero-worship a man who describes immigrants as animals - am I really inaccurate in my characterisation of you? See thats just misrepresentation of me, because I'm not hero worshiping him, I don't even like the man. But if you are going to make accusations about people without any real evidence, then what do you expect. Btw, wasn't Trump who said that about immigrants? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Which Tyler Posted May 14, 2019 Author Share Posted May 14, 2019 Can't seem to embed the tweet: Nigel Farage pictured marching in support of the National Front leader in 1979 (when accused pf I citing racial hatred) https://twitter.com/davemacladd/status/112803849574492979 Nigel Farage boasting that he has the same initials as the National Front https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/nigel-farage-fascist-nazi-song-gas-them-all-ukip-brexit-schoolfriend-dulwich-college-a7185236.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mormont Posted May 14, 2019 Share Posted May 14, 2019 Look, I think we all understand. The best way to oppose the Brexit party is not to say anything bad about it, or Farage, ever. Instead, we should defeat it by inviting Farage to come on TV all the time without ever challenging anything he says or asking him about things he does not want to discuss. Obviously we all want to make clear we disagree, but we should do so solely by means of disclaimers made while we creatively explain why he hasn't done anything bad, and never would, and is indeed a principled fellow who you have to respect. This tactic has famously destroyed any number of political careers, such as... um... I'll think of one in a minute. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heartofice Posted May 14, 2019 Share Posted May 14, 2019 2 minutes ago, mormont said: Look, I think we all understand. The best way to oppose the Brexit party is not to say anything bad about it, or Farage, ever. Instead, we should defeat it by inviting Farage to come on TV all the time without ever challenging anything he says or asking him about things he does not want to discuss. Obviously we all want to make clear we disagree, but we should do so solely by means of disclaimers made while we creatively explain why he hasn't done anything bad, and never would, and is indeed a principled fellow who you have to respect. This tactic has famously destroyed any number of political careers, such as... um... I'll think of one in a minute. Sorry I misread what you wrote.. I meant this: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigFatCoward Posted May 14, 2019 Share Posted May 14, 2019 58 minutes ago, Which Tyler said: Can't seem to embed the tweet: Nigel Farage pictured marching in support of the National Front leader in 1979 (when accused pf I citing racial hatred) https://twitter.com/davemacladd/status/112803849574492979 Nigel Farage boasting that he has the same initials as the National Front https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/nigel-farage-fascist-nazi-song-gas-them-all-ukip-brexit-schoolfriend-dulwich-college-a7185236.html Is that him in the first picture? Has it been confirmed? It looks fuck all like him to me. Second headline is a bit misleading is it not? Either way hes a cunt, but there surely is better out there than this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Anti-Targ Posted May 14, 2019 Share Posted May 14, 2019 10 hours ago, Heartofice said: Where does it say that. I didn't see that once in the interview. What he said was that he wants people like him to be encouraged to take up private health care in order to take the burden off the NHS. How is that about personal enrichment? If that is already an option, which according to posts here it is including private health insurance, then what exactly does he want? Does he want the govt to income test / asset test him and tell him he's too rich, so bugger off and pay for your own healthcare? I assume that in doing so he wants a tax cut to compensate, which defeats the purpose he's allegedly supporting (taking burden off the NHS). If you take money out of the tax system to compensate for those excluded from the healthcare system because they are too rich, then you have less money to properly fund the healthcare system. The net result is adding burden to the NHS, or at best having no effect at all. If Farage wants to be all noble hero to the ordinary folk then he should be getting his healthcare privately so that 100% of the tax he pays that goes into the NHS is used for the benefit of people other than him and his dependant family. And leading by example he could be encouraging his ilk to do the same. Knowing that private healthcare and private insurance is available to Britons the thing he says in the interview re healthcare makes absolutely no sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeanF Posted May 15, 2019 Share Posted May 15, 2019 14 hours ago, BigFatCoward said: Is that him in the first picture? Has it been confirmed? It looks fuck all like him to me. Second headline is a bit misleading is it not? Either way hes a cunt, but there surely is better out there than this. Dave M is an idiot. Farage was 15 at the time. I believe the man next to Webster is Richard Verrall, who made a fortune as author of "Did Six Million Really Die?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Werthead Posted May 15, 2019 Share Posted May 15, 2019 3 hours ago, SeanF said: Dave M is an idiot. Farage was 15 at the time. I believe the man next to Webster is Richard Verrall, who made a fortune as author of "Did Six Million Really Die?" The guy standing to the left of Webster certainly looks like a 15-year-old, and vaguely resembles Farage. He looks absolutely nothing like Verrall, who was 31 at the time. I don't think it's very likely to be Farage, though, or if it is, better evidence is needed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blue Roses Posted May 15, 2019 Share Posted May 15, 2019 Glorious! Ran and Linda are on the 'front page' of the Telegraph website, along with Nigel Farage, both behind the premium content subscription. Now that's a pairing I never thought to see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karaddin Posted May 15, 2019 Share Posted May 15, 2019 Quote But yes it’s far more likely he has ideological reasons for his preference rather than wanting a few more quid in his wallet. Of course he has an ideological reason for it. The ideology of "we should make it even easier for already rich people to amass further wealth while maintaining as minimal a safety net as we can convince people to accept". Shockingly as one of said rich people he personally benefits from such an ideology. But I'm sure this is also a crack pot theory and even thinking POTUS is in it for himself is the kind of crazy thinking that caused Brexit too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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