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UK Politics: Awaiting MV3

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Just now, HelenaExMachina said:

You read Pebble’s first statement as a critique of the system?

Whatever it was.. it was at least sensible. After that I simply rolled my eyes.

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1 minute ago, Heartofice said:

Whatever it was.. it was at least sensible. After that I simply rolled my eyes.

Why? What was “crackpot” or unreasonable about what she said? 

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Just now, HelenaExMachina said:

Why? What was “crackpot” or unreasonable about what she said? 

Is there any evidence that Farages grand scheme is to privatise the NHS in order to make money personally out of it? Has he ever said that?

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You are doubting that Farage (or quite honestly substitute most major politicians names there) would support a policy for their own personal gain? Really?

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6 minutes ago, Heartofice said:

Yes the first part seemed like a measured critique of the UK healthcare system..

Then.. BOOM, crackpot theory about Farage ruins everything.

Ok whatever.   I'm crackpot because Farage really isn't a man of the people and is like a greedy fucker out for himself. and really doesn't care about exploiting people for money.

Or I'm crackpot because the US system of healthcare is not in anyway exploitative?

Or I'm crackpot because a system that is fair for all and free at the point of use is worse somehow that a system where some have and many go without, while the few at the top get very rich out of it?

 

Or maybe I'm crackpot because I don't like Farage? or Brexit.

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1 minute ago, HelenaExMachina said:

You are doubting that Farage (or quite honestly substitute most major politicians names there) would support a policy for their own personal gain? Really?

Yeah because I don't just view people as comic book villains. Discussions like this really devalue the issues at hand.

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Just now, Pebble said:

Ok whatever.   I'm crackpot because Farage really isn't a man of the people and is like a greedy fucker out for himself. and really doesn't care about exploiting people for money.

I mean yeah if you can prove any of this and you aren't just saying it because you don't like him and it suits your picture of reality then go ahead. Otherwise it looks rather crackpot

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24 minutes ago, Heartofice said:

Yeah because I don't just view people as comic book villains. Discussions like this really devalue the issues at hand.

I don't think that it's a case of depicting Farage as a "comic book villain" simply by noting the obvious point that he would likely gain financially from such a policy change.

 

25 minutes ago, Heartofice said:

Yeah because I don't just view people as comic book villains. Discussions like this really devalue the issues at hand.

Nah, your gaslighting here devalues the issues at hand.

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7 minutes ago, Matrim Fox Cauthon said:

I don't think that it's a case of depicting Farage as a "comic book villain" simply by noting the obvious point that he would likely gain financially from such a policy change.

Accusing him of wanting to change the healthcare system of the UK for purely personal monetary reasons rather than because he thinks it would work better is a pretty strong allegation and I'd expect it to be backed up somehow. 

The only reasoning I can see for such an allegation is just because someone doesn't like him so smearing him is a totally ok tactic. 

That we are even discussing Farage's opinion on the NHS is a bit odd considering this is the EU elections. It seems Marr's 'Gotcha' style of interviewing seems to have worked on some people. 

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Do you honestly believe that anyone but people looking to make money from it think the US healthcare system works better than ours?

People view being hundreds of thousands of dollars in debt because they were silly enough to become ill as a positive do they?

 

 

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54 minutes ago, Heartofice said:

Is there any evidence that Farages grand scheme is to privatise the NHS in order to make money personally out of it? Has he ever said that?

He wrote a fucking book about it. FFS.

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51 minutes ago, Heartofice said:

Yeah because I don't just view people as comic book villains. Discussions like this really devalue the issues at hand.

With your nonsense and lies, and outlandish non-sequiturs, you're the one who devalues every discussion you take part in.

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3 minutes ago, Soylent Brown said:

Do you honestly believe that anyone but people looking to make money from it think the US healthcare system works better than ours?

People view being hundreds of thousands of dollars in debt because they were silly enough to become ill as a positive do they?

 

 

Firstly he wasn’t advocating for the US system from what I can see. There is a common assumption that anyone calling for NHS reform is wanting to copy the US system but I’ve not seen anyone asking for it.

But yes it’s far more likely he has ideological reasons for his preference rather than wanting a few more quid in his wallet. 

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Posted (edited)
4 minutes ago, Heartofice said:

Firstly he wasn’t advocating for the US system from what I can see. There is a common assumption that anyone calling for NHS reform is wanting to copy the US system but I’ve not seen anyone asking for it.

But yes it’s far more likely he has ideological reasons for his preference rather than wanting a few more quid in his wallet. 

He used to be quite open about this. In fact, he wrote a fucking book about it. Only problem is, now he knows that shit won't fly with the British public, he's trying to con people into believing that he doesn't want to enrich himself and his chums by destroying the NHS.

Edited by Spockydog

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I don't know why we waste our time, he's not going to change his mind on anything. Either he's so keen on Farage he's willing to overlook the bigotry, or he's a bigot. Either way there really isn't much point.

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9 minutes ago, Spockydog said:

He used to be quite open about this. In fact, he wrote a fucking book about it. Only problem is, now he knows that shit won't fly with the British public, he's trying to con people into believing that he doesn't want to enrich himself and his chums by destroying the NHS.

Which book is this? I can’t say I’ve read any of his books.. I don’t imagine they are that enlightening. What does it say in those books. If he is advocating for a US style healthcare system as opposed to just having more private company involvement then I’m happy to be proved wrong.

What I am much more interested in is the original claim that he’s doing it all to enrich himself ( especially as he’s not really doing much campaigning for NHS reform, being more concerned seemingly with Brexit at the moment)

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29 minutes ago, Heartofice said:

What I am much more interested in is the original claim that he’s doing it all to enrich himself

I mean, the evidence for that is in the original clip.

Even while trying to obfuscate his actual position and dodge the issue of whether he wants an all-insured system, Farage openly says that he wants incentives for people like him to buy insurance. 

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Just now, mormont said:

I mean, the evidence for that is in the original clip.

Even while trying to obfuscate his actual position and dodge the issue of whether he wants an all-insured system, Farage openly says that he wants incentives for people like him to buy insurance. 

What is that evidence of?

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36 minutes ago, Heartofice said:

What is that evidence of?

Personal gain.

I mean, I have no doubt - none at all - that Farage, an investment banker who made money from currency movements caused by the referendum result, would make money in other ways from a move to a US healthcare system, principally by buying shares in US healthcare and health insurance companies. But right there in the interview, he's blatant about the fact that he thinks government policy should be such that it personally benefits him, and he even puts it in those terms. 

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