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Unicorns


Suzanna Stormborn

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4 hours ago, White Ravens said:

Nuff said from your perspective. 

You wouldn't assume that Bronn has one hand if GRRM said that he punched someone with his fist, or that Arya has one foot because she kicked someone.   Shaggydog was raked with the goat's horn.  An injury inflicted by one of two horns. 

Nuff said. 

:)

 

Do goats have LONG horns? Would you, even as a direwolf, qualify them  as LONG (instead of curved for instance)? Can a goat RAKE with her horns (head upside down maybe, granted)? Direwolves, dragons, manticores, wyrms... So what is the problem with unicorns?

And more telling for me: Why would GRRM choose to injure Shaggydog with only one horn and let us know it?  Your own examples are actually telling - you don't usually write he punched someone with his fist, you just write he punched someone (and same for kick / foot). Same thing goes with rake : you usually rake with a rake (!), or at least with something with more that one tooth. This goat's rake has just one, long horn, otherwise GRRM would have written  "where the goat had raked him".

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On 4/25/2019 at 1:41 PM, Suzanna Stormborn said:

Interview with Neil deGrasse Tyson 4.24.19

 

Could you share a link to the interview? Thanks.

 

On 4/25/2019 at 1:41 PM, Suzanna Stormborn said:

Martin: “I have an interesting take on unicorns coming up in the new books. [smiles] Oops.”

Awwwww, martin is being cute and evasive again.

I suppose the unicorn thing comes form a dream someone had --- not sure if it was Ghost, Jon, Bran or Summer.  Even the moon was was talking. 

Dance with Dragons - Jon I      "Snow," the moon murmured. The wolf made no answer. Snow crunched beneath his paws. The wind sighed through the trees.      Far off, he could hear his packmates calling to him, like to like. They were hunting too. A wild rain lashed down upon his black brother as he tore at the flesh of an enormous goat, washing the blood from his side where the goat's long horn had raked him. In another place, his little sister lifted her head to sing to the moon, and a hundred small grey cousins broke off their hunt to sing with her. The hills were warmer where they were, and full of food. Many a night his sister's pack gorged on the flesh of sheep and cows and horses, the prey of men, and sometimes even on the flesh of man himself.     "Snow," the moon called down again, cackling. The white wolf padded along the man trail beneath the icy cliff. The taste of blood was on his tongue, and his ears rang to the song of the hundred cousins. Once they had been six, five whimpering blind in the snow beside their dead mother, sucking cool milk from her hard dead nipples whilst he crawled off alone. Four remained … and one the white wolf could no longer sense./

Har! Add that to mute and illiterate Wex throwing a knife a map.

On 4/26/2019 at 6:10 PM, kissdbyfire said:

Rickon, Shaggy, Osha and Davos will come back w/ a horde of wild Skagosi warriors and their fierce unicorns. I. Can’t. Wait. :D

Whose fleet transports the Skagosi horde, their one horned goats, Davos & Rickon, Osha and Shaggydog ?

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On 4/26/2019 at 9:04 AM, divica said:

In theory he doesn t need davos for that. If I remember right he does have an armada and several men capable of sailing a ship no?

 

What you are saying is that Manderly has an armada and men to man the ships?

On 4/26/2019 at 9:04 AM, divica said:

Besides, why would osha or rickon or any skagosi believe whatever davos says? I think that davos chances of sucess are very little…

Good question. Why would Osha, Rickon or any Skagosi believe Davos?

On 4/26/2019 at 9:04 AM, divica said:

Honestly, the entire arc of stannis in the north is a huge red herring for the ascension of the starks. I find it much more likely that rickon/davos will tie their story with hardhome or whatever happens with the NW than with stannis/wyman story.

Hardhome. Where there are dead things in the water.

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24 minutes ago, Clegane'sPup said:

Whose fleet transports the Skagosi horde, their one horned goats, Davos & Rickon, Osha and Shaggydog ?

We hear about stranded ships on Skagos and Skane, from both Davos and Cotter Pyke. I call them Chekhov’s ships. 

Here, @Clegane'sPup

First is from Pyke’s letter to Jon:

“At Hardhome, with six ships. Wild seas. Blackbird lost with all hands, two Lyseni ships driven aground on Skane, Talon taking water.”

Then from Davos: 

“Nine-and-twenty ships had set sail from the Wall. If half of them were still afloat, Davos would be shocked. Black skies, bitter winds, and lashing rains had hounded them all the way down the coast. The galleys Oledo and Old Mother’s Son had been driven onto the rocks of Skagos, the isle of unicorns and cannibals where even the Blind Bastard had feared to land; the great cog Saathos Saan had foundered off the Grey Cliffs.”

 

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15 minutes ago, Clegane'sPup said:

What you are saying is that Manderly has an armada and men to man the ships?

Manderly makes it very clear why he needs Davos. 

“You have better men than me in your service. Knights and lords and maesters. Why would you need a smuggler? You have ships.
Ships,” Lord Wyman agreed, “but my crews are rivermen, or fisherfolk who have never sailed beyond the Bite. For this I must have a man who’s sailed in darker waters and knows how to slip past dangers, unseen and unmolested.”

 

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23 minutes ago, kissdbyfire said:

We hear about stranded ships on Skagos and Skane, from both Davos and Cotter Pyke. I call them Chekhov’s ships. 

Here, @Clegane'sPup

First is from Pyke’s letter to Jon:

“At Hardhome, with six ships. Wild seas. Blackbird lost with all hands, two Lyseni ships driven aground on Skane, Talon taking water.”

Then from Davos: 

“Nine-and-twenty ships had set sail from the Wall. If half of them were still afloat, Davos would be shocked. Black skies, bitter winds, and lashing rains had hounded them all the way down the coast. The galleys Oledo and Old Mother’s Son had been driven onto the rocks of Skagos, the isle of unicorns and cannibals where even the Blind Bastard had feared to land; the great cog Saathos Saan had foundered off the Grey Cliffs.”

 

I asked whose fleet transports the Skagosi horde, their one horned goats, Davos & Rickon, Osha and Shaggydog in reply to your Rickon, Shaggy, Osha and Davos will come back w/ a horde of wild Skagosi warriors and their fierce unicorns. I. Can’t. Wait. :D

I'm not bickering.

I merely have a problem with Rickon being on Skagos. Thanks.

 

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19 minutes ago, kissdbyfire said:

Manderly makes it very clear why he needs Davos. 

“You have better men than me in your service. Knights and lords and maesters. Why would you need a smuggler? You have ships.
Ships,” Lord Wyman agreed, “but my crews are rivermen, or fisherfolk who have never sailed beyond the Bite. For this I must have a man who’s sailed in darker waters and knows how to slip past dangers, unseen and unmolested.”

 

Verra mysterious.  For this I must have a man who’s sailed in darker waters and knows how to slip past dangers, unseen and unmolested.”

Doesn't necessarily mean Davos needs sail to Skagos.

:D:wub:

 

 

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40 minutes ago, Clegane'sPup said:

What you are saying is that Manderly has an armada and men to man the ships?

Good question. Why would Osha, Rickon or any Skagosi believe Davos?

Hardhome. Where there are dead things in the water.

Yes I am saying that wyman has an armada and men. However as someone said above it apears wyman thinks davos is the best sailor he has available… However I still think there are enough sellsails(?)(sailors hired for Money) that could get rickon without wyman needing to have a pact with stannis.

I know it is a good question. I asked it lol. I have no idea why they would believe him nor how he would find them. I mean, they must be hiding for months… They certainly aren t advertising that shagydog is with them… So how will davos even recognize/track  them?

I would also like to know how they got a boat to take them and a direwolf to skagos and nobody heard about this. Feel free to enlighten me.

Hardhome and skagos aren t that far if I remember correctly. And a lot of the ocean near skagos is north of the Wall (check the map). So whatever is happening in the water near hardhome is veeerrryyyy probably happening in the water near skagos. I really think the stories will link with on another. It is the only way for us to know about what will happen there...

15 minutes ago, Clegane'sPup said:

I asked whose fleet transports the Skagosi horde, their one horned goats, Davos & Rickon, Osha and Shaggydog in reply to your Rickon, Shaggy, Osha and Davos will come back w/ a horde of wild Skagosi warriors and their fierce unicorns. I. Can’t. Wait. :D

I'm not bickering.

I merely have a problem with Rickon being on Skagos. Thanks.

 

where do you think rickon is given that ghost feels he fought agains an unicorn?

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3 minutes ago, divica said:

I know it is a good question. I asked it lol.

:rofl: Nice reply,

4 minutes ago, divica said:

I would also like to know how they got a boat to take them and a direwolf to skagos and nobody heard about this. Feel free to enlighten me.

Jackpot. Please someone enlighten us.

6 minutes ago, divica said:

where do you think rickon is given that ghost feels he fought agains an unicorn?

My dull boring answer is the unicorn is a one horned mountain goat.

 

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1 minute ago, Clegane'sPup said:

:rofl: Nice reply,

Jackpot. Please someone enlighten us.

My dull boring answer is the unicorn is a one horned mountain goat.

 

So do you have a theory about why wyman is sending davos to skagos or why the ironborn kid is telling this story?

Because the only reason I can think is that it is a plot from roose. That he wants wyman to send his ships/soldiers to skagos for some reason.

16 minutes ago, Clegane'sPup said:

Verra mysterious.  For this I must have a man who’s sailed in darker waters and knows how to slip past dangers, unseen and unmolested.”

Doesn't necessarily mean Davos needs sail to Skagos.

:D:wub:

 

 

I think davos really went to skagos. And we need skagos to enter the northern storyline because it is the only place near the north that deals with obsidian. It makes sense to have a pov there that will end up bringing a bunch of obsidian weapons with him...

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7 hours ago, Jô Maltese said:

Do goats have LONG horns? Would you, even as a direwolf, qualify them  as LONG (instead of curved for instance)? Can a goat RAKE with her horns (head upside down maybe, granted)? Direwolves, dragons, manticores, wyrms... So what is the problem with unicorns?

 

Some goats do have long horns, yes.  I invite you to do a google image search of wild goats.  Like many other species of mammals they come in a wide range of shapes and sizes.  A goat would only have to turn it's head to the side to produce the long sweeping movement necessary to rake an opponent in battle.

And I don't have a problem with unicorns.  I'm really looking forward to GRRM describing one when he gets around to it.

 

7 hours ago, Jô Maltese said:

And more telling for me: Why would GRRM choose to injure Shaggydog with only one horn and let us know it?  Your own examples are actually telling - you don't usually write he punched someone with his fist, you just write he punched someone (and same for kick / foot). Same thing goes with rake : you usually rake with a rake (!), or at least with something with more that one tooth. This goat's rake has just one, long horn, otherwise GRRM would have written  "where the goat had raked him".

 

I think that you are over complicating this situation. 

Let's take another look at the sentence with the horn reference:

"A wild rain lashed down upon his black brother as he tore at the flesh of an enormous goat, washing the blood from his side where the goat's long horn had raked him."

As I said to the OP... You think that this sentence proves that the enormous goat has only one horn.  I think that this sentence illustrates that the goat injured Shaggydog with one of its horns.  I suggest that we agree to disagree until GRRM provides us with more information. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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8 minutes ago, White Ravens said:

Let's take another look at the sentence with the horn reference:

"A wild rain lashed down upon his black brother as he tore at the flesh of an enormous goat, washing the blood from his side where the goat's long horn had raked him."

As I said to the OP... You think that this sentence proves that the enormous goat has only one horn.  I think that this sentence illustrates that the goat injured Shaggydog with one of its horns.  I suggest that we agree to disagree until GRRM provides us with more information. 

Good catch. You interpretation is completly valid. 

As non native english speaker. Is it possible for the traditional pointy horns that we imagine unicorns have to rake something? Shouldn t they Pierce because they are pointy? Would rake still be a good verb to use for these kind of wounds?

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4 minutes ago, divica said:

Good catch. You interpretation is completly valid. 

As non native english speaker. Is it possible for the traditional pointy horns that we imagine unicorns have to rake something? Shouldn t they Pierce because they are pointy? Would rake still be a good verb to use for these kind of wounds?

They can both pierce and rake. Piercing is more stab like, whereas raking is more like scratching. 

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51 minutes ago, divica said:

So do you have a theory about why wyman is sending davos to skagos or why the ironborn kid is telling this story?

I'm being serious. I don' have a theory. I do however have opinions.

The Wex thing does not add up.

People can (as I have done) provide quote material to support ones ideas.

56 minutes ago, divica said:

I think davos really went to skagos. And we need skagos to enter the northern storyline because it is the only place near the north that deals with obsidian. It makes sense to have a pov there that will end up bringing a bunch of obsidian weapons with him...

I don't think Davos went to Skagos.

The obsidian stash is most likely at Dragonstone.

A Storm of Swords - Samwell V   "Dragonglass." The red woman's laugh was music. "Frozen fire, in the tongue of old Valyria. Small wonder it is anathema to these cold children of the Other."    "On Dragonstone, where I had my seat, there is much of this obsidian to be seen in the old tunnels beneath the mountain," the king told Sam. "Chunks of it, boulders, ledges. The great part of it was black, as I recall, but there was some green as well, some red, even purple. I have sent word to Ser Rolland my castellan to begin mining it. I will not hold Dragonstone for very much longer, I fear, but perhaps the Lord of Light shall grant us enough frozen fire to arm ourselves against these creatures, before the castle falls."
 

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20 minutes ago, divica said:

Good catch. You interpretation is completly valid. 

I am aware you are speaking to someone other than myself. I will again interject..

I suppose the unicorn thing comes form a dream someone had --- not sure if it was Ghost, Jon, Bran or Summer.  Even the moon was talking. 

Dance with Dragons - Jon I      "Snow," the moon murmured. The wolf made no answer. Snow crunched beneath his paws. The wind sighed through the trees.      Far off, he could hear his packmates calling to him, like to like. They were hunting too. A wild rain lashed down upon his black brother as he tore at the flesh of an enormous goat, washing the blood from his side where the goat's long horn had raked him. In another place, his little sister lifted her head to sing to the moon, and a hundred small grey cousins broke off their hunt to sing with her. The hills were warmer where they were, and full of food. Many a night his sister's pack gorged on the flesh of sheep and cows and horses, the prey of men, and sometimes even on the flesh of man himself.     "Snow," the moon called down again, cackling. The white wolf padded along the man trail beneath the icy cliff. The taste of blood was on his tongue, and his ears rang to the song of the hundred cousins. Once they had been six, five whimpering blind in the snow beside their dead mother, sucking cool milk from her hard dead nipples whilst he crawled off alone. Four remained … and one the white wolf could no longer sense./

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18 minutes ago, kissdbyfire said:

They can both pierce and rake. Piercing is more stab like, whereas raking is more like scratching. 

yeah, but then if people have a scratch from a sword can you say that the sword raked you? Or if a direwolf "mildly" bites a character can it be said that his teeth raked the character?

My doubt is basicaly if it is correct to use rake for wounds made by pointy things because I thought it should only be used when the skin isn t pierced or if it is pierced is because "intense scratching pressure" (not the best expression).  I didn t think you could use rake for a light cut.

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11 minutes ago, Clegane'sPup said:

I'm being serious. I don' have a theory. I do however have opinions.

The Wex thing does not add up.

People can (as I have done) provide quote material to support ones ideas.

I don't think Davos went to Skagos.

The obsidian stash is most likely at Dragonstone.

A Storm of Swords - Samwell V   "Dragonglass." The red woman's laugh was music. "Frozen fire, in the tongue of old Valyria. Small wonder it is anathema to these cold children of the Other."    "On Dragonstone, where I had my seat, there is much of this obsidian to be seen in the old tunnels beneath the mountain," the king told Sam. "Chunks of it, boulders, ledges. The great part of it was black, as I recall, but there was some green as well, some red, even purple. I have sent word to Ser Rolland my castellan to begin mining it. I will not hold Dragonstone for very much longer, I fear, but perhaps the Lord of Light shall grant us enough frozen fire to arm ourselves against these creatures, before the castle falls."
 

You are right. And wex story is very strange. But then we also have to take into account that sometimes grrm has bad ideas like joffrey being responsable for bran's attempt murder. THAT is completly full of holes...

In regards to the obsidian. If it was going to come from dragonstone shouldn t it have arrived by now? I am no master of the timeline, but dragonstone has been besieged for some time now right? So is it still possible that obsidian is coming from there?

And I think we can all agree that a northern mining operation for a considerate period of time in dragonstone at this point seems impossible. So if they want more obsidian it will have to come from other place… And the wiki says that skagosi trade with obsidian weapons. So they have the complete product...

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12 minutes ago, Clegane'sPup said:

I am aware you are speaking to someone other than myself. I will again interject..

I suppose the unicorn thing comes form a dream someone had --- not sure if it was Ghost, Jon, Bran or Summer.  Even the moon was talking. 

Dance with Dragons - Jon I      "Snow," the moon murmured. The wolf made no answer. Snow crunched beneath his paws. The wind sighed through the trees.      Far off, he could hear his packmates calling to him, like to like. They were hunting too. A wild rain lashed down upon his black brother as he tore at the flesh of an enormous goat, washing the blood from his side where the goat's long horn had raked him. In another place, his little sister lifted her head to sing to the moon, and a hundred small grey cousins broke off their hunt to sing with her. The hills were warmer where they were, and full of food. Many a night his sister's pack gorged on the flesh of sheep and cows and horses, the prey of men, and sometimes even on the flesh of man himself.     "Snow," the moon called down again, cackling. The white wolf padded along the man trail beneath the icy cliff. The taste of blood was on his tongue, and his ears rang to the song of the hundred cousins. Once they had been six, five whimpering blind in the snow beside their dead mother, sucking cool milk from her hard dead nipples whilst he crawled off alone. Four remained … and one the white wolf could no longer sense./

Basically I think we all jumped aboard the ship "shaggydog killed a unicorn" a bit too early. It might be true, but it might also no be true.

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14 minutes ago, divica said:

yeah, but then if people have a scratch from a sword can you say that the sword raked you? Or if a direwolf "mildly" bites a character can it be said that his teeth raked the character?

My doubt is basicaly if it is correct to use rake for wounds made by pointy things because I thought it should only be used when the skin isn t pierced or if it is pierced is because "intense scratching pressure" (not the best expression).  I didn t think you could use rake for a light cut.

Yes. Because even things w/ “pointy ends” can scrape a surface like skin depending on the angle, force, etc. 

@divica

scratch or scrape (something, especially a person's flesh) with a long sweeping movement.
"her fingers raked Bill's face"
synonyms: scratchlaceratescraperaspgrazeabradegratebark
technicalexcoriate
"the cat raked his face with its claws"
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49 minutes ago, divica said:

Good catch. You interpretation is completly valid. 

As non native english speaker. Is it possible for the traditional pointy horns that we imagine unicorns have to rake something? Shouldn t they Pierce because they are pointy? Would rake still be a good verb to use for these kind of wounds?

Raking injuries are a real drag.  :D

 

A pointy horn can both pierce and rake.  A pointy horn thrust into flesh will pierce it but the same pointy horn can also drag across flesh (rake), opening a long wound.

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