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Is Syrio confirmed dead?


Lady Winter Rose

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7 minutes ago, Lady Winter Rose said:

What has Martin said on manner of his departure?

 Could he be left alone to go to Braavos because he was foreign?

"Then people asked questions. Someone asked if Syrio was dead. And he said to "draw your own conclusions" based on the fact that his sword was broken, etc, which I took to mean yes."

https://www.westeros.org/Citadel/SSM/Entry/1372

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2 hours ago, Lady Winter Rose said:

It's so sad & it can't be but confirmed.

yeah, fuck you and fuck me --- keep reading

 

3 hours ago, Ser Leftwich said:

"Then people asked questions. Someone asked if Syrio was dead. And he said to "draw your own conclusions" based on the fact that his sword was broken, etc, which I took to mean yes."

https://www.westeros.org/Citadel/SSM/Entry/1372

draw your own conclusions

sumbody is gonna say dead and sumbody is gonna say Syrio lives ---

cha-ching or as in the still appropriate pink floyd song ---- Money.

my conclusion Syrio died

 

 

 

 

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Has anyone read the sample chapter from Winds of Winter for Arya/Mercy? There is mention of a man who writes the play's for the mummers group and his name is Phario Forel. It may be a common name in Braavos, but maybe he is related and we will get more information. *fingers crossed*

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Don't expect Martin to direct confirm much about the series. Actually I wouldn't even expect him to keep his word about things he already said. But anyway...

Syrio is quite certain dead. If I remember right he fought Merryn Trant (a decent fighter) and 3 (or was it 5?) Lannister guards using a wooden sword. Even as he was able to defeat the guards is not confirmed that he killed them, so they possibly regained ther feet sometime and ganged up on him with more caution. When he attacked Merryn, his wooden sword broke leaving him unable to attack and to parry.

Considering Merryn history of cruelty, the possibility that the Lannister guards woke up and ganged on him AND that is certain that Merryn survived the encounter is very unlikely that Syrio is still alive.

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5 hours ago, Lady Winter Rose said:

What has Martin said on manner of his departure?

 Could he be left alone to go to Braavos because he was foreign?

I don't think Meryn Trant would have let him live. He seems to really enjoy cruelty and I don't think he would have allowed the Dancing Master to best him if he could help it. His pride and ego would not allow for it.

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  • 2 weeks later...
On 4/26/2019 at 2:30 AM, LadyBlackwater said:

Has anyone read the sample chapter from Winds of Winter for Arya/Mercy? There is mention of a man who writes the play's for the mummers group and his name is Phario Forel. It may be a common name in Braavos, but maybe he is related and we will get more information. *fingers crossed*

I wouldn't be surprised, if in TWOW Arya will meet Phario, and when she will ask him, whether he is bloodrelated to ex-First Sword of Braavos, Syrio Forel, Phario will say that, yes, Syrio was his brother, but he lost him many years ago, when Syrio either died or joined Faceless Men. "Syrio Forel", that Arya knew, could be the same person as Jaqen H'ghar/Alchemist/fPate. 

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57 minutes ago, Megorova said:

I wouldn't be surprised, if in TWOW Arya will meet Phario, and when she will ask him, whether he is bloodrelated to ex-First Sword of Braavos, Syrio Forel, Phario will say that, yes, Syrio was his brother, but he lost him many years ago, when Syrio either died or joined Faceless Men. "Syrio Forel", that Arya knew, could be the same person as Jaqen H'ghar/Alchemist/fPate. 

This is why I love his books. I feel that the show is hurrying along and trying to fit so much in. GRRM takes his time and weaves these tiny hints and links. There’s no rush(literally as we’ve been waiting for years lol) but taking his time, we have more opportunities to link and make connections. Awesome. 

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I prefer a version of the story where he is dead. It's more meaningful, that way. His death is a great one. Consider how Tywin or Ned or anyone else for that matter, died. It's mostly just a bit shit. But Syrio died as he lived. A bad ass with bigger balls than the Titan himself. 

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37 minutes ago, TheThreeEyedCow said:

I prefer a version of the story where he is dead. It's more meaningful, that way. His death is a great one. Consider how Tywin or Ned or anyone else for that matter, died. It's mostly just a bit shit. But Syrio died as he lived. A bad ass with bigger balls than the Titan himself. 

Agreed. Actually this issue is a perfect example for the other thread on the series complexity, and the forced over-complexity some fans make up.

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In this story, you can't be sure someone's dead until you see the body ... and maybe not even then. Syrio sure is an amazing fighter, skilled with the mind as well as the body (remember the story about the Sealord's cat). So yes, it's possible that he lived, and it's even possible that he is Jaqen. That raises the question of how he ended up as a prisoner in a black cell. But several days passed between the fight with Trant and Arya's departure from King's Landing (I think?), so he had time to figure something out.

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Although given the circumstances in regards to Syrio fighting Meryn Trant along with a bunch of other Lannister soldiers and his sword breaking. The assumption that he's dead isn't a strange one and it literally could be as simple as that. 

Theories such as the possibility of Syrio being alive stem from the readers desire to want him alive, does him being alive add any value to the story? I mean both Syrio and Jaqen H'ghar are from Braavos and one could assume Syrio like Jaqen is part of the FM. 

You could also say that Jaqen helps Arya because he is Syrio and given the circumstances of what he witnessed has taken it upon himself to protect Arya. Either way we know Jaqen chose to help Arya purposefully, regardless of whether he's Syrior or not that was no coincedence.

Or they could be two different people with the same purpose and that is equipping Arya with the necessary skills to stay alive or something else, we can't really say for sure. 

Either one wouldn't dissapoint me. 

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On 4/25/2019 at 7:38 PM, Petyr Lannister said:

Syrio is quite certain dead. If I remember right he fought Merryn Trant (a decent fighter) and 3 (or was it 5?) Lannister guards using a wooden sword. Even as he was able to defeat the guards is not confirmed that he killed them, so they possibly regained ther feet sometime and ganged up on him with more caution. When he attacked Merryn, his wooden sword broke leaving him unable to attack and to parry.

He pretty clearly mortally wounded or killed all of them. That was one of the big conversations about the choreography of the scene in the show, because Syrio struck at unarmored parts or manipulated their bodies to strike each other. I honestly I would not count him out. There's five usable swords lying around on the ground, he's faster than Trant even when Trant is out of armor, there's five dead or dying bodies to muck up Trant's movements, and Trant's not depicted as being particularly brave. It can't have been a quick fight because Trant would have been able to follow Arya pretty directly if it had been. Septa Mordane and Syrio Forel pretty much saved Arya by themselves through their own small parts. The problem with Syrio is "The First Sword of Braavos does not run." His win-con is stalling Trant long enough and then getting out. 

It's ambiguous enough that a rational human being can go either way and not be considered wrong. Evidence for: Sansa doesn't notice his head on the pikes, Trant isn't seen much for a considerable amount of time due to how Sansa and Ned's POVs work, the swords I mentioned previously and the difference in skill. Evidence against: Sansa barely recognized the other severed heads, wouldn't really be looking for Syrio or care to recognize him, Trant's armor and refusal to run. 

There is also the tinfoil to consider (not saying I advocate for it.) but the Syrio-Forel-Was-a-Faceless-Man-and-Stole-Trant's-Face is certainly an attractive thought. There is at least one Faceless Man running around Westeros that we have not found just yet after all.  

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4 hours ago, CAllDSmith said:

There is at least one Faceless Man running around Westeros that we have not found just yet after all.  

Sorry, that's a new one to me. What's the evidence for that?

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4 hours ago, CAllDSmith said:

He pretty clearly mortally wounded or killed all of them. That was one of the big conversations about the choreography of the scene in the show, because Syrio struck at unarmored parts or manipulated their bodies to strike each other. I honestly I would not count him out. There's five usable swords lying around on the ground, he's faster than Trant even when Trant is out of armor, there's five dead or dying bodies to muck up Trant's movements, and Trant's not depicted as being particularly brave. It can't have been a quick fight because Trant would have been able to follow Arya pretty directly if it had been. Septa Mordane and Syrio Forel pretty much saved Arya by themselves through their own small parts. The problem with Syrio is "The First Sword of Braavos does not run." His win-con is stalling Trant long enough and then getting out. 

It's ambiguous enough that a rational human being can go either way and not be considered wrong. Evidence for: Sansa doesn't notice his head on the pikes, Trant isn't seen much for a considerable amount of time due to how Sansa and Ned's POVs work, the swords I mentioned previously and the difference in skill. Evidence against: Sansa barely recognized the other severed heads, wouldn't really be looking for Syrio or care to recognize him, Trant's armor and refusal to run. 

There is also the tinfoil to consider (not saying I advocate for it.) but the Syrio-Forel-Was-a-Faceless-Man-and-Stole-Trant's-Face is certainly an attractive thought. There is at least one Faceless Man running around Westeros that we have not found just yet after all.  

Counterpoint: Of course he hit at unarmored parts, otherwise he would have done nothing to phase them. Broken noses and bruised necks was probably the worst of it. Would he be any good at all with a Westerosi longsword? No he would not.

Counterpoint: Why would they put Syrio's head on a spike? He is nobody.

Syrio is dead. Not everything is a magical conspiracy, sometimes it is just a noble death.

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9 hours ago, CAllDSmith said:

He pretty clearly mortally wounded or killed all of them. That was one of the big conversations about the choreography of the scene in the show, because Syrio struck at unarmored parts or manipulated their bodies to strike each other. I honestly I would not count him out. There's five usable swords lying around on the ground, he's faster than Trant even when Trant is out of armor, there's five dead or dying bodies to muck up Trant's movements, and Trant's not depicted as being particularly brave. It can't have been a quick fight because Trant would have been able to follow Arya pretty directly if it had been. Septa Mordane and Syrio Forel pretty much saved Arya by themselves through their own small parts. The problem with Syrio is "The First Sword of Braavos does not run." His win-con is stalling Trant long enough and then getting out. 

It's ambiguous enough that a rational human being can go either way and not be considered wrong. Evidence for: Sansa doesn't notice his head on the pikes, Trant isn't seen much for a considerable amount of time due to how Sansa and Ned's POVs work, the swords I mentioned previously and the difference in skill. Evidence against: Sansa barely recognized the other severed heads, wouldn't really be looking for Syrio or care to recognize him, Trant's armor and refusal to run. 

There is also the tinfoil to consider (not saying I advocate for it.) but the Syrio-Forel-Was-a-Faceless-Man-and-Stole-Trant's-Face is certainly an attractive thought. There is at least one Faceless Man running around Westeros that we have not found just yet after all.  

I dont think Sansa would recognize his face, especially in the emotional state she was. She didn't care much for Arya or whatever she was doing at this point of the books and think that she was never properly introduced to Syrio (I honestly dont remember if she was or not). 

 

4 hours ago, Ser Leftwich said:

Counterpoint: Of course he hit at unarmored parts, otherwise he would have done nothing to phase them. Broken noses and bruised necks was probably the worst of it. Would he be any good at all with a Westerosi longsword? No he would not.

Also this is something to count. Bravosi  swordsmen are not used to fight with "knights" weapons. Even if he picked up the swords of the guards he wouldn't fight to the full of his skills.

 

Besides he fulfilled his narrative purpose: Introducing Arya to the bravosi culture and religion. This role was picked up by Jaquen H'ghar later on. 

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I expect that the swords of the fallen guardsmen are either still being held by them,, or are  underneath their bodies.  In other words, inaccessible.  Given that Trent is in full armor, well armed, and probably better than competent with a sword; and Syrio has only a (broken) stick, it is a serious mismatch.  Given Trent's ego, and how he has just been humiliated, I doubt he is in the mood for mercy.  I think Syrio is toast.

I am open to the idea that Syrio and Jaqen were acquainted.  Both are expats from the Free Cities, so could easily visit the same places and move in the same social circle.s  That would be a perfectly logical way for Jaqen to know about Arya, as I expect that Syrio was quite happy to get the gig with Ned Stark.

I find the suggestion that Jaqen is in the Black Cells deliberately, or is really Syrio, to be ridiculous.  I can see no reason for him doing so.

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