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Varysblackfyre321

Coins, Daggers, and re-reads.

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15 hours ago, ير بال said:

/r/wallstreetbets

OH MY GLOM. 

 

 

(What, no love for John Law and his Mississippi Scheme, which produced the first ever usage of the word "millionaire" in Paris?)

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Posted (edited)
10 hours ago, Varysblackfyre321 said:

This kinda of describes Dawson perfectly. His only real reasons for opposing Geder is that he’s decided to take the advisements of foreigners, and wants to slaughter noblemen like they’re filthy peasants. Any other atrocities Geder has committed isn’t really a big deal to him. 

I wouldn’t go that far. Issadorien was an unknowingly working as a puppet of the king of Asterbold. I think it’s ironic for much as Dawson tried to destroy Issa’s movement his actions probably brought what he feared coming to pass much sooner. Like it probably would’ve taken much longer for the farmers’ council to have be created if not for the conflict Dawson in part created by deciding to use Geder as a tool.

One could sympathize with Dawson certainly. But him being a POV character doesn’t make him a hero anymore than Victorien was a hero in AFFC when he was granted a POV and shown to genuinely value the traditions of his people and capable of regret. 

 

I would disagree and say that Dawson is heroic; providing a very stripped-down view of heroism. He is a profoundly classist military aristocrat with no displayed inclination to or capacity for change and utterly conventional to his context. He possesses integrity and does not lie to himself about himself, nor does he wish to lie to himself about others if he can help it. This lets him get Geder right, when very few of his countrymen did. His wife is a more appealing version, what Dawson does is clear the minimum requirement as well as provide a clear focus on what the minimum requirement is. What does a preference or antipathy for a specific kind of political organization have to do with heroism, really?

Edited by illrede

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Dawson is an ultra conservative, whereas Clara is the type of conservative who realises that things have change if you want them to stay the same.

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Posted (edited)
18 hours ago, illrede said:

I would disagree and say that Dawson is heroic; providing a very stripped-down view of heroism. He is a profoundly classist military aristocrat with no displayed inclination to or capacity for change and utterly conventional to his context. He possesses integrity and does not lie to himself about himself, nor does he wish to lie to himself about others if he can help it. This lets him get Geder right, when very few of his countrymen did. His wife is a more appealing version, what Dawson does is clear the minimum requirement as well as provide a clear focus on what the minimum requirement is. What does a preference or antipathy for a specific kind of political organization have to do with heroism, really?

The traits you’ve described him having aren’t necessarily heroic. At best it shows he’s not a hypocrite. And he doesn’t get Geder completely right. Geder when Dawson rebelled wasn’t completely subservient towards the priests of the spider nor was he working to exploit or cause any harm to the kingdom. Dawson failed to see Geder as an actor capable of his own choices due to his xenophobia. He placed the blame on Geder’s plan to massacre the Asterbold on tge priests. When as bad as they were the priests, didn’t recommend it in any way. Geder came on to that decision on his own. Oh and his estimation Geder wouldn’t be able to kill someone with his own hands was wrong.  Ironically it could be argued that Dawson’s coup pushed Geder further into their hands. 

And who is a hero could be relative I concede. But my complaint is the idea Dawson must be viewed as a hero due to him having a POV character showing that he’s well human. 

16 hours ago, SeanF said:

Dawson is an ultra conservative, whereas Clara is the type of conservative who realises that things have change if you want them to stay the same.

I would say Clara is more “liberal” honestly. Like she doesn’t think a woman having pre-marital  sex and getting pregnant makes her ruined goods. 

Edited by Varysblackfyre321

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2 hours ago, Varysblackfyre321 said:

The traits you’ve described him having aren’t necessarily heroic. At best it shows he’s not a hypocrite. And he doesn’t get Geder completely right. Geder when Dawson rebelled wasn’t completely subservient towards the priests of the spider nor was he working to exploit or cause any harm to the kingdom. Dawson failed to see Geder as an actor capable of his own choices due to his xenophobia. He placed the blame on Geder’s plan to massacre the Asterbold on Geder. When as bad as they were the priests, Geder came on to that decision on his own. Oh and his estimation Geder wouldn’t be able to kill someone with his own hands was wrong.  Ironically it could be argued that Dawson’s coup pushed Geder further into their hands. 

And who is a hero could be relative I concede. But my complaint is the idea Dawson must be viewed as a hero due to him having a POV character showing that he’s well human. 

I would say Clara is more “liberal” honestly. Like she doesn’t think a woman having pre-marital  sex and getting pregnant makes her ruined goods

Even Dawson doesn't see it as a deal breaker.  After listing all the reasons why Jorey shouldn't marry her, he basically finishes up with ""You're going to marry her anyway, so good luck."

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5 hours ago, SeanF said:

Dawson is an ultra conservative, whereas Clara is the type of conservative who realises that things have change if you want them to stay the same.

Part of what makes Clara so brilliant is seeing the gradual evolving of her views and values. The length of time the novels occur over (Abraham handles this massive time span very well btw) means that there is nothing surprising or forced about how Clara develops

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10 hours ago, SeanF said:

Even Dawson doesn't see it as a deal breaker.  After listing all the reasons why Jorey shouldn't marry her, he basically finishes up with ""You're going to marry her anyway, so good luck."

Actually he does until Clara talks to him. If it wasn’t for Clara making clear this would happen either way, he’d probably be more opposed. A woman especially a noblewoman giving birth to a bastard to him(as it is to most of his society), is seen as far worse than a man fathering a bastard after all.

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Posted (edited)

And almost finished with the Spider’s war. Gotta say the series has proved pretty good.

Some questions though; I found it odd Chithirin didn’t know Roach was an ethnic slur. Vanai had there portion of them, as did everywhere so I just find it odd she’d never heard a common insult for the Timmaze applied to them when growing up.

Also I find the idea of Victorien being consigned to the priesthood odd. It’s treated like a given he’s too far down the line of succession to ever reasonably hope to become Baron though he’s immediately after Barrith. Wouldn’t Jorey be the one most appropriate for priesthood? 

Also, I found this image when reading an Article written by Abraham discussing race in Fantasy.https://www.pinterest.it/pin/212654413639424651/?amp_client_id=tEbStJHNQ6hrE7Lv37nMujwnETcD19Vemjc0gXPtAGmTgjuLe7AfDP2KUBDlT5yB&mweb_unauth_id=dce8bbaa248af3b4d380dca9b4aacc51 

 Abraham far as I could tell intentionally left his descriptions of the 13 races vague to let readers formulate their own thoughts. I have to see I never exactly pictured them like that. Weird.

Edited by Varysblackfyre321

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10 hours ago, Varysblackfyre321 said:

And almost finished with the Spider’s war. Gotta say the series has proved pretty good.

Some questions though; I found it odd Chithirin didn’t know Roach was an ethnic slur. Vanai had there portion of them, as did everywhere so I just find it odd she’d never heard a common insult for the Timmaze applied to them when growing up.

Also I find the idea of Victorien being consigned to the priesthood odd. It’s treated like a given he’s too far down the line of succession to ever reasonably hope to become Baron though he’s immediately after Barrith. Wouldn’t Jorey be the one most appropriate for priesthood? 

Also, I found this image when reading an Article written by Abraham discussing race in Fantasy.https://www.pinterest.it/pin/212654413639424651/?amp_client_id=tEbStJHNQ6hrE7Lv37nMujwnETcD19Vemjc0gXPtAGmTgjuLe7AfDP2KUBDlT5yB&mweb_unauth_id=dce8bbaa248af3b4d380dca9b4aacc51 

 Abraham far as I could tell intentionally left his descriptions of the 13 races vague to let readers formulate their own thoughts. I have to see I never exactly pictured them like that. Weird.

It was interesting, I thought, to compare Geder's burning of Vanai, with Daenerys' actions in the most recent episode of GOT. Geder is a meek little monster;. Dany, a charismatic one.  

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11 hours ago, Varysblackfyre321 said:

And almost finished with the Spider’s war. Gotta say the series has proved pretty good.

Some questions though; I found it odd Chithirin didn’t know Roach was an ethnic slur.

As nom de guerres go, it wasn't a bad one. That'd kill curiosity, or prevent associations from being made. Personally I never thought it was his given name, but I did think it was the name he went by.

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17 minutes ago, illrede said:

Personally I never thought it was his given name, but I did think it was the name he went by.

Wait, who went by what name now? 

 

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39 minutes ago, Varysblackfyre321 said:

And finally done. Great series. Have to come back to it again in a few years.

You read the whole five book series in a single fortnight?!

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11 minutes ago, IlyaP said:

You read the whole five book series in a single fortnight?!


The books ain't that long. I reread the Long Price Quartet since Friday, so Dagger and Coin in two weeks seems emintently doable.

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Posted (edited)
23 hours ago, IlyaP said:

Wait, who went by what name now? 

 

A young Timzinae mercenary was introduced as "Roach". Cithrin accepted it, later in the series the young man blew up on her over it being a racial pejorative. I had taken it for a nom de geurre/squad nickname (which it probably was, for that matter).

Edited by illrede

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1 hour ago, illrede said:

A young Timzinae mercenary was introduced as "Roach". Cithrin accepted it, later in the series the young man blew up on her over it being a racial pejorative. I had taken it for a nom de geurre/squad nickname (which it probably was, for that matter).

Actually he never does. Dawson and one of the guards warn Chithrin she might not want to call him an racial  slur  when they’re in a place full of said race. They then went onto explain that Roach wasn’t the man’s actual. Gotta feel bad for the guy. I could only imagine how isolated  if I was the only black guy in a place and was  only ever being called “Negro” instead of my actual name by those around me. It’d be especially aggravating if my boss did it.  

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19 hours ago, polishgenius said:

The books ain't that long. I reread the Long Price Quartet since Friday, so Dagger and Coin in two weeks seems emintently doable.

How do you find the time to get so much reading done? 

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4 hours ago, IlyaP said:

How do you find the time to get so much reading done?  


I read on the train and I'm on the train a lot.

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11 minutes ago, polishgenius said:

I read on the train and I'm on the train a lot.

It doesn't rock you to sleep! 

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