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Kajjo

Three-eyed raven and its importance?

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Honestly, I didn't really understand the importance of the three-eyed raven as depicted in E2 in the dialogue between Bran and Samwell Tarly. Why would killing Bran be so disastrous for mankind?

In the real world we live without weirwood-networks, without anyone being able to tap into the past, to re-watch and know everything. We rely on books, lore, songs and whatever to remember our history. Of course we forget some things, but our world is worth living for and living in nonetheless. I guess the show has shortcut and simplified this issue so much as to be very superficial and not really comprehensible. 

So Bran tells us, the Nightking wants an endless night. That's bad of course. Cold and dark, no proper conditions for mankind to live in. But why would killing Bran cause a permanent night?

What is the ultimate motive of the Nightking? Why does he profit from an eternal night? 

Maybe he seeks for deliverance or salvation? He was a First Men forced to become the first White Walker. Maybe he not really want to be this anymore? 

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I have a theory that Bran is lying about that, because he expects that the Night King is listening in (either because there is a spy in Winterfell or because the Night King can warg into somthing within Winterfell and spy directly).

Bran wants the Night King to think that killing him will result in victory to trick the Night King into making mistakes.  Sam is trying to support Bran's claim because he trusts Bran, not realizing that Bran is lying.

As for the Night King's motive, I'm not sure, but it might be just to have a place for his people.  Sure an endless night will probably kill everything, except the white walkers who don't need to eat and don't age.  Plus the cold never bothered them anyway. 

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BrantheShipper very interesting theory. I'm surprised it hasn't come up before now (at least not that Ive seen).

Kajjo, I don't think the 3ER's vision is connected to the weirwood trees, because he has seen things that happened outside of where they grow. When Bran said that, my thought was that somehow all of human kind's memory is somehow connected to the 3ER and if he dies, men forget who and what they are, basically mindless robots. That's the only sense I've been able to make of it.

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5 hours ago, SansaJonRule said:

that somehow all of human kind's memory is somehow connected to the 3ER and if he dies, men forget who and what they are, basically mindless robots

Well, that's what Bran and Sam said, but I don't understand it. Why should men forget what they know just because there is no three-eyed raven anymore,

Obviously most people do not even know that a three-eye raven exists and whether Bran has greensight to tap into the past or not does not change what people know, what is written in books or passed on by songs and stories. 

Why should anyone become a mindless robot just because there is no three-eyed raven?

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18 hours ago, Bran the Shipper said:

Plus the cold never bothered them anyway

:rofl:

Almost missed that! Nice one :cheers:

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Yeah, I don't get it either. They still have books, castles, cities, oral tradition and so on. And then there is a little boy who can see all the past but no one really knows he exists anyway. It's not like Bran is going to write a huge tome "The History of Humankind".

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21 hours ago, Bran the Shipper said:

I have a theory that Bran is lying about that, because he expects that the Night King is listening in (either because there is a spy in Winterfell or because the Night King can warg into somthing within Winterfell and spy directly).

Bran wants the Night King to think that killing him will result in victory to trick the Night King into making mistakes.  Sam is trying to support Bran's claim because he trusts Bran, not realizing that Bran is lying.

As for the Night King's motive, I'm not sure, but it might be just to have a place for his people.  Sure an endless night will probably kill everything, except the white walkers who don't need to eat and don't age.  Plus the cold never bothered them anyway. 

Very interesting

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11 hours ago, Kajjo said:

Why should anyone become a mindless robot just because there is no three-eyed raven?

Who knows? It's fantasy. I equate it to some extent to the underlying premise of The Matrix.

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Yeah, the motivation Bran stated kind of doesn't make sense. The last time the NK was around written history didn't exist, everything was passed down through stories and song. This time around the Citadel exists and so do books, inaccurate as they may be. The NK has no way of knowing books exist or what they even are.

I take it more simply, the the NK true motivation is to wipe out man kind everywhere. If all are dead, there is no memory.

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On 4/26/2019 at 7:00 AM, Kajjo said:

Honestly, I didn't really understand the importance of the three-eyed raven as depicted in E2 in the dialogue between Bran and Samwell Tarly. Why would killing Bran be so disastrous for mankind?

In the real world we live without weirwood-networks, without anyone being able to tap into the past, to re-watch and know everything. We rely on books, lore, songs and whatever to remember our history. Of course we forget some things, but our world is worth living for and living in nonetheless. I guess the show has shortcut and simplified this issue so much as to be very superficial and not really comprehensible. 

So Bran tells us, the Nightking wants an endless night. That's bad of course. Cold and dark, no proper conditions for mankind to live in. But why would killing Bran cause a permanent night?

What is the ultimate motive of the Nightking? Why does he profit from an eternal night? 

Maybe he seeks for deliverance or salvation? He was a First Men forced to become the first White Walker. Maybe he not really want to be this anymore? 

What I got from Bran and Sams talk in ep 2. Is the NK wants to wipe out all mankind and the memory of mankind (Bran) and he won't stop until he wipes out both. 

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It seems like a key component to many past genocides have been to erase all history, memory. The Kmer Rouge pushed the doctrine that it was year 0 while they were purgeing their society of teachers, and educated classes. For instance, I believe the ability to speak English qualified one for the killing fields.

So for me the idea that the Night King is trying to eliminate all memory, eliminate all the living jives pretty consistent with other genocidal actions in our own history and is no leap for me to hear Bran describe it as a motivation for the Night King. 

Other than that since when is any mass purgeing in any way logical? There is a certain level of insanity that cannot be explained almost by necessity. Its just evil that needs to be defeated.

eta: I have really enjoyed Bran this season, his role is finally coming to light.

Edited by DireWolfSpirit

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On 5/12/2019 at 6:18 AM, DireWolfSpirit said:

It seems like a key component to many past genocides have been to erase all history, memory. The Kmer Rouge pushed the doctrine that it was year 0 while they were purgeing their society of teachers, and educated classes. For instance, I believe the ability to speak English qualified one for the killing fields.

So for me the idea that the Night King is trying to eliminate all memory, eliminate all the living jives pretty consistent with other genocidal actions in our own history and is no leap for me to hear Bran describe it as a motivation for the Night King. 

Other than that since when is any mass purgeing in any way logical? There is a certain level of insanity that cannot be explained almost by necessity. Its just evil that needs to be defeated.

eta: I have really enjoyed Bran this season, his role is finally coming to light.

Have u considered that bran/3er is lying...and he is an agent of the cotf to kill mankind ? What would happened if jon did not know about his parentage?

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 Bran as an agent of the Children of the Forest is a theory I hadnt considered.

Not sure what outcomes with Jon unaware of parentage would entail, I have only viewed episodes 1-4, so maybe I will learn more yet from the show ending.

I believe the book ending will differ quite a bit from show ending though.

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2 hours ago, DireWolfSpirit said:

 Bran as an agent of the Children of the Forest is a theory I hadnt considered.

Not sure what outcomes with Jon unaware of parentage would entail, I have only viewed episodes 1-4, so maybe I will learn more yet from the show ending.

I believe the book ending will differ quite a bit from show ending though.

Yes it all depends if the show runners can be arsed. 

Jon got told at the worst time. If he had not been told him and dany would have been married/,,United in a strong position.

I think this could be the WTF moment. Also maybe they tried first with aerys her dad - remember he heard voices and ned heard brans voice in tower of joy.

Bran is no longer bran. He is the great other - but will the show do this - I am.not sure.

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