Why does every character hate Daenerys?

[SansaJonRule]

54 minutes ago, loverofcats said:

No, they should name Viserys as King after Rebelion.

Technically, what should have happened if they were all behaving as loyal subjects of the Targaryen dynasty is they should have deposed Aeyrs for torturing & killing his sworn subjects and then Rhaegar would have become king, not Viserys.  Robert going after Rhaegar in a jealous rage for supposedly kidnapping and raping Lyanna is where treason comes in. Robert killed the rightful heir to the throne.

31 minutes ago, Tyrion1991 said:

A man offers up the notion that Dany should not be Queen and that he should be in charge. That’s pretty clearly a conspiracy. 

I don't think so. Sam is simply stating the truth. If Rhaegar had lived, his and Lyanna's marriage would have become public knowledge and Jon would have always been Aegon. Stating the obvious truth is not conspiracy.

And as for the original subject of this thread, a lot of what you see as hatred is simply distrust.

[Rose of Red Lake]

26 minutes ago, Tyrion1991 said:

“That’s treason...”

”It’s the truth”

A man offers up the notion that Dany should not be Queen and that he should be in charge. That’s pretty clearly a conspiracy. 

Sansa and co have been making rumblings that they’ll revolt the second the undead are dealt with. If she was resigned to the North being ruled then she wouldn’t be constantly sniping at Dany. When people are openly saying in front of Danys face that “Jon should be King of the North” that’s pretty conspiratorial. 

It is a conspiracy, you are right. Once Sam and Sansa join up, its over for Dany. 

But this was built into the story. Jon's parentage was always going to matter and serve as a huge explosive development. It was never going to be smoothed over so these two lovebirds (gag) could be HEA.

If you feel Dany has been screwed, its by design. But its also not how everyone will see it either. Jon has his own merits and talents and strengths and Dany is going up against Sansa's traumas and "The North Remembers" and lovable Sam. So buckle up.

[OldGimletEye]

5 minutes ago, SansaJonRule said:

Technically, what should have happened if they were all behaving as loyal subjects of the Targaryen dynasty is they should have deposed Aeyrs for torturing & killing his sworn subjects and then Rhaegar would have become king, not Viserys.  Robert going after Rhaegar in a jealous rage for supposedly kidnapping and raping Lyanna is where treason comes in. Robert killed the rightful heir to the throne.

I don't know. Seems like Rhaegar signed his own death warrant the moment he decided to command of the Targaryen forces and lead them against the rebels.

And remember the war ultimately started because Arryn had a choice to make. Either kill the two young men in his charge or refuse.

[Tyrion1991]

6 minutes ago, Rose of Red Lake said:

It is a conspiracy, you are right. Once Sam and Sansa join up, its over for Dany. 

But this was built into the story. Jon's parentage was always going to matter and serve as a huge explosive development. It was never going to be smoothed over so these two lovebirds (gag) could be HEA.

If you feel Dany has been screwed, its by design. But its also not how everyone will see it either. Jon has his own merits and talents and strengths and Dany is going up against Sansa's traumas and "The North Remembers" and lovable Sam. So buckle up.

 

Because that’s false tension. It’s like, in the early season envisaging Stannis coming to blows with Rob or Stannis/Rob B going against Danny. The plot has always sidestepped and set the cards to prevent grey moral conflicts. 

So here I do think it’s building towards Dany dropping her claim and going back to Essos. I don’t think we will see a Stark vs Targ war. There isn’t enough episodes. 

[SansaJonRule]

2 minutes ago, OldGimletEye said:

I don't know. Seems like Rhaegar signed his own death warrant the moment he decided to command of the Targaryen forces and lead them against the rebels.

I don't remember the history very well. Was this before or after Jaime killed Aerys? The cause of Robert's Rebellion was not just to depose the Mad King, it was to settle a personal score with Rhaegar. When Bran saw Rhaegar and Lyanna's marriage, he went so far as to say that the rebellion was based on a lie.

[OldGimletEye]

8 minutes ago, SansaJonRule said:

, it was to settle a personal score with Rhaegar. 

Not really. Aerys ordered Arryn to kill both Ned and Robert. Arryn refused and called his banners. That is what ultimately set off the conflict. The war might as well have been called "Jon's Rebellion".

Later, Rhaegar decided to take command of the Targaryen forces.

8 minutes ago, SansaJonRule said:

Was this before or after Jaime killed Aerys? 

The war started before Jaime killed Aerys. And Rhaegar was killed in battle by Robert before Aerys died.

[SansaJonRule]

3 minutes ago, OldGimletEye said:

Not really. Aerys ordered Arryn to kill both Ned and Robert. Arryn refused and called his banners. That is what ultimately set off the conflict. The war might as well have been called "Jon's Rebellion".

Later, Rhaegar decided to take command of the Targaryen forces.

The war started before Jaime killed Aerys. And Rhaegar was killed in battle by Robert before Aerys died.

I remember now. I stand corrected.

[darmody]

21 minutes ago, SansaJonRule said:

Technically, what should have happened if they were all behaving as loyal subjects of the Targaryen dynasty is they should have deposed Aeyrs for torturing & killing his sworn subjects and then Rhaegar would have become king, not Viserys.  Robert going after Rhaegar in a jealous rage for supposedly kidnapping and raping Lyanna is where treason comes in. Robert killed the rightful heir to the throne

To be fair, Lyanna and Robert were betrothed and Rhaegar was married. The Rhaegar-Lyanna marriage was kept secret for no good reason.

Rhaegar could've sent a letter saying, "Hey, guyz. Sorry, but we're in love. Lyanna sez hi." Instead, he just disappears. When he reappears it's not to explain but to ride off and get killed by Robert. That's on Rhaegar, in my opinion. 

[darmody]

19 minutes ago, SansaJonRule said:

I don't remember the history very well. Was this before or after Jaime killed Aerys? The cause of Robert's Rebellion was not just to depose the Mad King, it was to settle a personal score with Rhaegar. When Bran saw Rhaegar and Lyanna's marriage, he went so far as to say that the rebellion was based on a lie.

That's an exaggeration on Bran's part. The supposed abduction of Lyanna started a chain of events that eventually led to war, but it wasn't the direct cause.

Ned's father and brother were killed because they went to King's Landing to demand Lyanna's return. The Mad King next called for the heads of Ned and Robert. Only then were banners called up and rebellion started. 

While Robert was fighting Rhaegar or thenabouts, Tywin brought his army into King's Landing under false pretenses and proceeded to sack the city. The Mad King called for Tywin's head, and only then did Jaime stab him. 

[loverofcats]

19 minutes ago, darmody said:

To be fair, Lyanna and Robert were betrothed and Rhaegar was married. The Rhaegar-Lyanna marriage was kept secret for no good reason.

Rhaegar could've sent a letter saying, "Hey, guyz. Sorry, but we're in love. Lyanna sez hi." Instead, he just disappears. When he reappears it's not to explain but to ride off and get killed by Robert. That's on Rhaegar, in my opinion. 

The most things we know about Aerys reign and Robert's Rebelion we know from Grand  Maester Pycelle. I don't trust Pycelle. The Citadel knew about Rhaegar and Lyanna mariage. I suppose they should have sent the ravens in all corners of the  realm. After all Rhaegar was the crown prince. But they didn't say anything leaving the war to break out.  And Rhaegar silence was weird.

[Lord Lyman]

37 minutes ago, loverofcats said:

The most things we know about Aerys reign and Robert's Rebelion we know from Grand  Maester Pycelle. I don't trust Pycelle. The Citadel knew about Rhaegar and Lyanna mariage. I suppose they should have sent the ravens in all corners of the  realm. After all Rhaegar was the crown prince. But they didn't say anything leaving the war to break out.  And Rhaegar silence was weird.

Did the Citadel know, or just one maester who wrote it in his book and didn't say anything as the Rebellion was going on?

[BlackLightning]

Just now, Lord Lyman said:

Did the Citadel know, or just one maester who wrote it in his book and didn't say anything as the Rebellion was going on?

Well, first of all, the Citadel probably doesn't know anything about the Rhaegar and Lyanna marriage. The Citadel has nothing to do with marriages.

The Faith does. The High Septon wrote about it.

42 minutes ago, loverofcats said:

The most things we know about Aerys reign and Robert's Rebelion we know from Grand  Maester Pycelle. I don't trust Pycelle. The Citadel knew about Rhaegar and Lyanna mariage. I suppose they should have sent the ravens in all corners of the  realm. After all Rhaegar was the crown prince. But they didn't say anything leaving the war to break out.  And Rhaegar silence was weird.

Nor should you. Pycelle has always been sketchy as hell. As a matter of fact, it is because of Pycelle (and also Cressen) that I believe Lady Dustin when she talks about the maesters are dangerous conspirators. silence too.

I'm going to need some more information from GRRM on what really happened after Rhaegar and Lyanna disappeared. Because right now, the two of them look like selfish idiots who not only threw their lives away but ruined the lives of millions and nearly destroyed an entire nation.

[Lord Lyman]

4 minutes ago, Jabar of House Titan said:

Well, first of all, the Citadel probably doesn't know anything about the Rhaegar and Lyanna marriage. The Citadel has nothing to do with marriages.

I had to look it up for clarity. It was High Septon's Maynard's diary that Gilly read Rhaegar's annulment from. She did however acquired the book at the Citadel with Sam.

[darmody]

10 minutes ago, Jabar of House Titan said:

Well, first of all, the Citadel probably doesn't know anything about the Rhaegar and Lyanna marriage. The Citadel has nothing to do with marriages.

The Faith does. The High Septon wrote about it.

Yet this writing was in the Citadel's possession. And you'd think the people responsible for knowing everything about everything might be informed that a royal marriage had been annulled and the heir apparent remarried. 

[Hodor the Articulate]

9 hours ago, Rose of Red Lake said:

"Don't make any funny moves to set off Dany, or she'll burn you"

You're describing a hostage situation. She's not the hero in that scenario.

So? This is medieval warfare. It's not about heroes and villains. They don't have to like Dany but it is beyond stupid to be acting so abrasive towards her. Torrhen Stark saw what Aegon did in the Field of Fire, and did the sensible thing of kneeling. If the Northern Lords think Dany and her army are malicious and terrifying, as people in this forum claim, they should do the same. Or at the very least not be trying to piss her off.

People keep presenting Dany as power hungry and entitled because she wants fealty in exchange for help, but the same standard isn't applied to the Northern Lords, who are expecting her substantial help without offering anything in return. That's not how negotiations work. She shouldn't have to act Queenly towards people who haven't accepted her as Queen, and it is their dumb luck that she's doing it anyway, despite their hostility towards her.

[BlackLightning]

In other words though, I feel like that TV show version of Daenerys has not earned any of the disrespect, ingratitude, etc. All Daenerys wanted to burn was the Red Keep which isn't that big of an issue

The book version of Daenerys is likely to do some really crazy stuff. Like OD crazy. Like I can see book Daenerys -- post-Dothraki -- burning cities, bulldozing armies and breaking wheels (for good reason of course) and not giving a f-ck.

[LucyMormont]

2 hours ago, loverofcats said:

The most things we know about Aerys reign and Robert's Rebelion we know from Grand  Maester Pycelle. I don't trust Pycelle. The Citadel knew about Rhaegar and Lyanna mariage. I suppose they should have sent the ravens in all corners of the  realm. After all Rhaegar was the crown prince. But they didn't say anything leaving the war to break out.  And Rhaegar silence was weird.

I agree with this. History is written by the winners, we should be very critical. We actually don't know many things, and some of the things we believe we know, might not be true.  We saw Robert enraged with any mention of Targaryens, even kids who were not responsible at all for what happened, just because of what Rhaegar did to Lyanna. Yet we know that Rhaegar never dishonored Lyanna. I don't expect the show to give us better explanations, but I hope the books will, if we ever get them.

For all we know, Rhaegar could have been in love, and to hell with everything and everybody,

Or could have been entirely drawn by prophecies, and the moment he saw Lyanna understood that the Prince who was Promised had not been born yet, and that his duty was to father him in Lyanna, and thought that this was more important than anything else.

Or, it could have been also a political move, with the purpose to stop the alliances Rickard Stark was forging, which could have been considered a danger to the Crown. Lord Rickard had ambitions, his heir married to the elder Tully daughter, and his daugher married to the Stormlands lord, along with the ties with the Lord of the Vale, (warden of his second son and in short time to be brother in law to his heir). That's an alliance of four Great Houses, that's not something a king would ignore, not even a not crazy one would ignore that.  So maybe taking Lyanna and marrying her (be it with annulment, divorce, or even as another wife) was also a political move, and maybe Aerys was even informed. He could have aproved of his son actions, at least in regards of the Starks...but he was also distrustful of Rhaegar, so who knows, maybe murdering the Starks was to f*ck Rhaegar too... or just a move a la Tywin, to erase from the way all heirs, because just like Sansa was the "key to the North" for Tywin, Lyanna was the key if Rickard and her older brothers died. 

This is all speculation, obviously. The point is that we just don't know what happened, and why.

[loverofcats]

2 hours ago, Jabar of House Titan said:

Well, first of all, the Citadel probably doesn't know anything about the Rhaegar and Lyanna marriage. The Citadel has nothing to do with marriages.

The Faith does. The High Septon wrote about it.

Nor should you. Pycelle has always been sketchy as hell. As a matter of fact, it is because of Pycelle (and also Cressen) that I believe Lady Dustin when she talks about the maesters are dangerous conspirators. silence too.

I'm going to need some more information from GRRM on what really happened after Rhaegar and Lyanna disappeared. Because right now, the two of them look like selfish idiots who not only threw their lives away but ruined the lives of millions and nearly destroyed an entire nation.

Pycelle was allways loyal to House Lannister. "You did not know what I did for Lannisters..." maybe not the same words, but very close.

[Rose of Red Lake]

3 hours ago, Hodor the Articulate said:

So? This is medieval warfare. It's not about heroes and villains. They don't have to like Dany but it is beyond stupid to be acting so abrasive towards her. Torrhen Stark saw what Aegon did in the Field of Fire, and did the sensible thing of kneeling. If the Northern Lords think Dany and her army are malicious and terrifying, as people in this forum claim, they should do the same. Or at the very least not be trying to piss her off.

People keep presenting Dany as power hungry and entitled because she wants fealty in exchange for help, but the same standard isn't applied to the Northern Lords, who are expecting her substantial help without offering anything in return. That's not how negotiations work. She shouldn't have to act Queenly towards people who haven't accepted her as Queen, and it is their dumb luck that she's doing it anyway, despite their hostility towards her.

Ah, so they should be nice to their local conqueror, is that it?

She demanded Jon bend the knee before she even knew the threat existed. She just heard his title and decided his kingdom had to submit to her. She already viewed the North as her enemy from Day 1. 

What did they do to piss her off? Look at her funny? They didn't throw parades for her in the streets? You Dany fans are so sensitive.

[SansaJonRule]

13 minutes ago, Rose of Red Lake said:

People keep presenting Dany as power hungry and entitled because she wants fealty in exchange for help

She has never asked for fealty in exchange for help. She has always demanded fealty. It just happened that she saw what the world was up against and realized it was in everyone's best interest for her to help.