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Arya Targaryen

Can WWs raise dead who were not killed by them?

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I see all the talk about the NK raising the dead in the crypts, or around Kings Landing or the Riverlands - but is it possible? Have we seen so far someone being raised who was not killed by a WW /NK /random zombies?

I know there are skeleton zombies as well, but they might have been killed by WWs long ago, we don't know for sure.

We also know that the wildlings were burning their dead to prevent them from raising, but that's still no proof.

Is there anyone, who we know was NOT killed by the Others (or zombies) and turned?

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The night king can. 

 

Remember, when Jon was going after him. He raised the "new" armies, all of the new deaths from that night, who then attacked everyone.  

The Starks in the crypts came to life though, and started killing the other people in the crypts. 

These Starks weren't killed by the night king(most likely). So I would say yes z as long as they weren't decapitated, killed by fire, or dragonglass\valyrian steel I think they can be turned by the night king.

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5 hours ago, Ceejtank said:

The night king can. 

 

Remember, when Jon was going after him. He raised the "new" armies, all of the new deaths from that night, who then attacked everyone.  

The Starks in the crypts came to life though, and started killing the other people in the crypts. 

These Starks weren't killed by the night king(most likely). So I would say yes z as long as they weren't decapitated, killed by fire, or dragonglass\valyrian steel I think they can be turned by the night king.

Yeah, after seeing this ep, it is safe to say, he can (or... could). I was wondering about that before 8x03 aired, as I wasn't so sure about that. 

(anyway, I'm sure in the book the Others can't raise the dead in the crypts, as they can't raise skeletons - "the bones remember", but apperently they changed that in the show.)

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TBH that was one of the biggest gripes for me. Turning the Night King into a normal boring necromancer... I hoped the crypts would be a misdirect and that he won't be raising bags of bones there, that his resurrection powers have a limit (on people killed by him directly or indirectly - cold, avalanches, wights, White Walkers...).

It also makes no sense. It is implied that Starks were burying their dead there since the foundation of Winterfell. But Winterfell was founded after the Long Night so the Starks who did it would know that the Night King can raise dead. They would insist on their dead being burned, same way Wildlings do. Of course new Starks would not know that, but the old ones, the founders, definitely would. If the family remembers "There must always be a Stark in Winterfell", they should also remember "And in honor of the Old Gods we burn our dead".

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40 minutes ago, Runaway Penguin said:

It also makes no sense. 

Shhhhhhh - you're spoiling everything with logic!

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6 hours ago, Runaway Penguin said:

TBH that was one of the biggest gripes for me. Turning the Night King into a normal boring necromancer... I hoped the crypts would be a misdirect and that he won't be raising bags of bones there, that his resurrection powers have a limit (on people killed by him directly or indirectly - cold, avalanches, wights, White Walkers...).

Yeah, I wasn't particularly happy about the NK raising the long dead Starks. I always had a theory that the "wighting" is like a kind of disease: you become wight if get the virus. And this virus is spreaded by other wights, WW, maybe cold. So the dead Starks kinda ruined it all. But we can still interpret it as a virus that makes the bodies raise spontaneously, while the NK simply forces everyone to raise. But as I said, I'm not very happy about it.

 

6 hours ago, Runaway Penguin said:

It is implied that Starks were burying their dead there since the foundation of Winterfell. But Winterfell was founded after the Long Night so the Starks who did it would know that the Night King can raise dead. They would insist on their dead being burned, same way Wildlings do. Of course new Starks would not know that, but the old ones, the founders, definitely would. If the family remembers "There must always be a Stark in Winterfell", they should also remember "And in honor of the Old Gods we burn our dead".

According to what is written on the Winterfell page on awoiaf wiki, Winterfell was founded 8000 years after the Long Night. And that is the problem. Simply way too much time passed since the Long Night. People forgot. That's completely plausible to me. In our real world we are not sure whether Atlantis existed, or not, and Atlantis was supposed to exist only some 2500 years ago.

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Yes, which is why he used the dead people in the crypts.

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Assuming that it has something to do with warging if you can warg a skeleton you should really be able to warg any inanimate object. Since that's not the case I'd assume he's just a generic necromancer. 

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6 hours ago, Nerevanin said:

According to what is written on the Winterfell page on awoiaf wiki, Winterfell was founded 8000 years after the Long Night. And that is the problem. Simply way too much time passed since the Long Night. People forgot. That's completely plausible to me. In our real world we are not sure whether Atlantis existed, or not, and Atlantis was supposed to exist only some 2500 years ago.

I am not sure about that - the Long Night happened 8,000 years before the Targ conquest (according to legend) and Winterfell was founded  by Bran the Builder (who also raised Storm's End and the Wall). Bran the Builder also founded the House Stark.Of course the legend may not be true, but then that would also put into question all other legends and prophecies ;)

So House Stark is alluded to start right after the Long Night or during it - so again, if Night King was seen raising any old how dead bodies, burning the dead would be a Stark tradition right along Stark being in Winterfell and "Winter is coming". If the legends are true, there should simply be no crypts, though there may be underground storage caverns, but not burioal grounds. Unless Starks really forgot, but then I would say "winter is coming" is easier to forget ;)

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The wildlings always burned their dead, even if they were killed by something else than wights.

I guess they had figured out any dead could be raised by the WW.

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4 minutes ago, Madarjeen said:

The wildlings always burned their dead, even if they were killed by something else than wights.

I guess they had figured out any dead could be raised by the WW.

If they always burned their dead, then where did all those bodies north of the wall come from? If they were always burned then there wouldn't have been any to raise in the first place.

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57 minutes ago, dbunting said:

If they always burned their dead, then where did all those bodies north of the wall come from? If they were always burned then there wouldn't have been any to raise in the first place.

I assume the WWs just swarm villages to get new people. Therefore, nobody is left to burn the bodies when that happens.

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21 minutes ago, Madarjeen said:

I assume the WWs just swarm villages to get new people. Therefore, nobody is left to burn the bodies when that happens.

Ok, if we assume the WW generals, for lack of better term, killed a village, then the NK raised them back up and continued from there I could buy it, except there were tons and tons of walkers that had been dead a long time shown to us in S2 i thnk, maybe S3 as they walk past Sam. They were very clearly old deaths.

Did we ever get an explanation why they didn't kill Sam in that episode, other than plot?

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5 minutes ago, dbunting said:

Ok, if we assume the WW generals, for lack of better term, killed a village, then the NK raised them back up and continued from there I could buy it, except there were tons and tons of walkers that had been dead a long time shown to us in S2 i thnk, maybe S3 as they walk past Sam. They were very clearly old deaths.

Did we ever get an explanation why they didn't kill Sam in that episode, other than plot?

I don't remember if it's mentioned in the show or the books, but can't we think the WWs have been at work for several years before the story starts? Maybe the wights shown in S2 were raised 20 years ago or something.

About Sam, I don't think there has ever been an explanation, it's always been kind of confusing to me. I'd say it's either the WWs are more human than we could think, and that WW just didn't care about the lonely seemingly pointless person, or Sam has a role to play in the NK's plans, and the dead are not completely beaten yet and could come back because of Sam (kind of a stretch, but I'm still holding to some hope the WWs could still appear in future episodes).

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2 minutes ago, Madarjeen said:

I don't remember if it's mentioned in the show or the books, but can't we think the WWs have been at work for several years before the story starts? Maybe the wights shown in S2 were raised 20 years ago or something.

About Sam, I don't think there has ever been an explanation, it's always been kind of confusing to me. I'd say it's either the WWs are more human than we could think, and that WW just didn't care about the lonely seemingly pointless person, or Sam has a role to play in the NK's plans, and the dead are not completely beaten yet and could come back because of Sam (kind of a stretch, but I'm still holding to some hope the WWs could still appear in future episodes).

Not happening. Remember it's Game of Thrones, not the Nights King. He is dead and gone as are all of his army. Someone would have to create a new NK to start it all over again. IIRC the last of the Children of the forest died in the cave with the other 3ER so they can't create another one. It was their magic that did it, so how could anyone else even know how other than Bran?

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