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Discussing Sansa XXXVI: Long Night

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Just now, King Jon Snow Stark said:

Unless he takes one of the other castles. He lives in Winterfell. I think Bear Islands would be a good spot for Jon of the Wars. He already has longclaw. 

As long as he is miles away from her.

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1 minute ago, D-Shiznit said:

As long as he is miles away from her.

Fine by me since he has a habit of getting everyone killed. Best he goes off to be alone on Bear Island.

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People on twitter need to stop comparing Sansa to Lyanna Mormont. They are two very different people who were raised two very different ways with two very different skillsets. 

 

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1 hour ago, Raksha 2014 said:

 

They showed that Sansa was terrified when she saw the Dothraki disappear (or the size of the Dead army, can't remember which, it was when she and Arya were on the battlements I think).  She stepped back, as if she wanted to run, but stopped herself.  Then we saw her again with Arya and Sansa didn't want to leave the battlements to go hide in the crypts, which I thought showed some gumption.  And she and Tyrion, when in the crypts, found enough courage to grip their weapons and face what was going on in the crypts.

I don't think this can really be compared to what she did during Blackwater battle. Sansa had never seen a battle for one thing. This time she not only sees it, but it's an enemy that cannot be fathomed.

When she grabbed her dagger and looked at Tyrion, I thought it was a kind of "well, it's time to die but we'll face it together".

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She was hiding like a coward, not comforting her people or rallying them or as the smartest person in Westeros and Essos, trying to think of something to do for defense.  She was cowering behind a door.  Pathetic.

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3 minutes ago, Cas Stark said:

She was hiding like a coward, not comforting her people or rallying them or as the smartest person in Westeros and Essos, trying to think of something to do for defense.  She was cowering behind a door.  Pathetic.

As they all pretty much were. Except for Tyrion’s drunk talk.

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2 minutes ago, Cas Stark said:

She was hiding like a coward, not comforting her people or rallying them or as the smartest person in Westeros and Essos, trying to think of something to do for defense.  She was cowering behind a door.  Pathetic.

So was Tyrion. And Varys. Two of the smartest people in Westeros. Are they cowardly and pathetic, too?

Sansa is not a fighter. It makes zero sense why she would fight. What kind of defense can she do? The crypts were the defense. And we all know that Sansa's "smartness" revolves around politics, not battle command. What the fuck was she supposed to do? Lead them into a song like in the Battle of the Blackwater? I don't think that would have worked very well in that situation. 

All of those characters were 'hiding' and 'cowering behind a door'. They all were scared shitless. Unless you claim all those characters are also pathetic, then you have no ground to stand on.

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1 minute ago, Pandean said:

So was Tyrion. And Varys. Two of the smartest people in Westeros. Are they cowardly and pathetic, too?

Sansa is not a fighter. It makes zero sense why she would fight. What kind of defense can she do? The crypts were the defense. And we all know that Sansa's "smartness" revolves around politics, not battle command. What the fuck was she supposed to do? Lead them into a song like in the Battle of the Blackwater? I don't think that would have worked very well in that situation. 

All of those characters were 'hiding' and 'cowering behind a door'. They all were scared shitless. Unless you claim all those characters are also pathetic, then you have no ground to stand on.

i agree. i am sick of jon and sansa hate.

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Just now, Pandean said:

So was Tyrion. And Varys. Two of the smartest people in Westeros. Are they cowardly and pathetic, too?

Sansa is not a fighter. It makes zero sense why she would fight. What kind of defense can she do? The crypts were the defense. And we all know that Sansa's "smartness" revolves around politics, not battle command. What the fuck was she supposed to do? Lead them into a song like in the Battle of the Blackwater? I don't think that would have worked very well in that situation. 

All of those characters were 'hiding' and 'cowering behind a door'. They all were scared shitless. Unless you claim all those characters are also pathetic, then you have no ground to stand on.

Neither Varys nor Tyrion mean anything to the people in the crypt. Sansa is a Stark and lady of winterfell.  her behavior was pathetic, but I'm sure she'll still end as a "hero".  I wouldn't trust her to manage a car wash, myself.

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1 minute ago, Cas Stark said:

Neither Varys nor Tyrion mean anything to the people in the crypt. Sansa is a Stark and lady of winterfell.  her behavior was pathetic, but I'm sure she'll still end as a "hero".  I wouldn't trust her to manage a car wash, myself.

You should be complaining about D&D instead of the character. Since it's a complete 180 from last episode where Cogman made it a point, several times, to show us how Sansa cares for her people. Only to completely flip that around in this one.

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Just now, Cas Stark said:

Neither Varys nor Tyrion mean anything to the people in the crypt. Sansa is a Stark and lady of winterfell.  her behavior was pathetic, but I'm sure she'll still end as a "hero".  I wouldn't trust her to manage a car wash, myself.

Again. Tell me what she was supposed to do. She very truthfully stated that they're in the crypts because they cannot fight and that the most heroic thing they can do is accept that and not get in the way. 

What was she supposed to say or do? 

And again, you can't say that Sansa's behavior was pathetic but somehow Tyrion's drunkenness shit and Varys commenting they're at least in a crypt already, is not pathetic.

Also in the end, when Sansa had the dragonglass dagger it's clear she's prepared to use it if she has to.

But again. What do you think she was supposed to do? Give me some concrete suggestions.

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1 minute ago, Mystical said:

You should be complaining about D&D instead of the character. Since it's a complete 180 from last episode where Cogman made it a point, several times, to show us how Sansa cares for her people. Only to completely flip that around in this one.

This, too.

 

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1 minute ago, Pandean said:

Again. Tell me what she was supposed to do. She very truthfully stated that they're in the crypts because they cannot fight and that the most heroic thing they can do is accept that and not get in the way. 

What was she supposed to say or do? 

And again, you can't say that Sansa's behavior was pathetic but somehow Tyrion's drunkenness shit and Varys commenting they're at least in a crypt already, is not pathetic.

Also in the end, when Sansa had the dragonglass dagger it's clear she's prepared to use it if she has to.

But again. What do you think she was supposed to do? Give me some concrete suggestions.

The show has told me that Sansa is the smartest person in Westeros and Essos, smarter than her sister who actually killed the NK, so presumably, the show could have figured out something for her to do other than cower behind a door.

 

 

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1 minute ago, Cas Stark said:

The show has told me that Sansa is the smartest person in Westeros and Essos, smarter than her sister who actually killed the NK, so presumably, the show could have figured out something for her to do other than cower behind a door.

 

 

So you have absolutely no point or argument. You're just hating to hate. Okay.

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9 minutes ago, Cas Stark said:

She was hiding like a coward, not comforting her people or rallying them or as the smartest person in Westeros and Essos, trying to think of something to do for defense.  She was cowering behind a door.  Pathetic.

 

Sansa never claimed that she was the smartest person anywhere; only that she understood politics, and Cersei Lannister, more than Jon does (true) and in the latter case, more than Tyrion does (apparently true).  Sansa is not and has never been a fighter; and would have been wasted on the ramparts or on the front lines, as would Tyrion.  And they didn't dare sing for fear of alerting wights to their presence in the Crypts.  I do think they should have given a few lines to Sansa where she's trying to comfort a few people, or leading them in silent prayer; but for some reason, they chose to write Sansa as doing her best to be brave (on the ramparts where, despite her fear, she wants to protect her people) one minute and then sitting in the crypts in despair ('we're useless').  But the writing for Sansa hasn't been that great for awhile.  And the writers forgot that Jon had ordered that all Northern women were to be trained in self-defense; apparently Sansa didn't get the memo...

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Just now, Pandean said:

So you have absolutely no point or argument. You're just hating to hate. Okay.

My argument is that having Sansa cower behind a door was pathetic, she was 100x more of a leader back in season 2 when she's 13 or 14.  

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1 minute ago, Cas Stark said:

The show has told me that Sansa is the smartest person in Westeros and Essos, smarter than her sister who actually killed the NK, so presumably, the show could have figured out something for her to do other than cower behind a door.

When have they told you Sansa is the smartest person on the planet? I only remember Arya saying Sansa is the smartest person SHE ever met. And Arya has a few screws lose so her opinion is probably skewed anyway. So I must have missed Sansa being referenced by a character as the smartest person on the planet. Can you give that quote?

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Just now, Cas Stark said:

My argument is that having Sansa cower behind a door was pathetic, she was 100x more of a leader back in season 2 when she's 13 or 14.  

Then what would you have had her do? 

Also, GRRM wrote the Blackwater episode. Have you not noticed that when GRRM or Cogman write Sansa, they actually get her character but any time D&D touch her character they totally butcher it? Because they can't write her for shit? If your issue is the writing, that's fine, I respect that. D&D cannot write Sansa, or really, any female character who doesn't defy traditional femininity well at all.

 

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1 minute ago, Mystical said:

When have they told you Sansa is the smartest person on the planet? I only remember Arya saying Sansa is the smartest person SHE ever met. And Arya has a few screws lose so her opinion is probably skewed anyway. So I must have missed Sansa being referenced by a character as the smartest person on the planet. Can you give that quote?

Come on. If you are in a cript and dead start waking the first thing to do is kill them before they get out of the tombs.

Then anyone with a brain would organize some kind of defensive line instead of having everyone hide so that they can be killed 1 by 1.

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Just now, Mystical said:

When have they told you Sansa is the smartest person on the planet? I only remember Arya saying Sansa is the smartest person SHE ever met. And Arya has a few screws lose so her opinion is probably skewed anyway. So I must have missed Sansa being referenced by a character as the smartest person on the planet. Can you give that quote?

Well, Arya has 'met' all the smartest people in Westeros, certainly, if Sansa is smarter than Tywin Lannister who Arya knew well she has to be the smartest person in Westeros, she's smarter than everyone in Braavos including the death cult master assassins, so that would seem to make her definitively the smartest person in Westeros, and probably Essos, but maybe somewhere there is someone smarter than her in Essos who Arya didn't mean.  LMAO.

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