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Risto

Discussing Sansa XXXVI: Long Night

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I hoped for Sansa giving her people some moral support in their (apparently) last hour. You know, just like she did during the Blackwater, when she was younger and her character was only developing. It would be a nice hrowback. But nope.

Are they going for the romance with Tyrion? Ew.

Sitting in a crypt, arguing about Dany when she's a. not even here b. fighting for the well-being of your asses. Very unlikable, Sansa.

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12 minutes ago, Tianzi said:

I hoped for Sansa giving her people some moral support in their (apparently) last hour. You know, just like she did during the Blackwater, when she was younger and her character was only developing. It would be a nice hrowback. But nope.

Are they going for the romance with Tyrion? Ew.

Sitting in a crypt, arguing about Dany when she's a. not even here b. fighting for the well-being of your asses. Very unlikable, Sansa.

dany just rode a dragon. arya was the real hero.

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Posted (edited)

I found her obnoxious. I was glad that Missandei put her at her place. She pretty much owns her life to everybody else, so she shouldn’t accuse Dany for being the one to be blamed for her failed “romance” for which she doesn’t care about it anyway, only for strategic reasons. I hope Tyrion is not so fool nor desperate to swallow the bait. 

Edited by Nightwish

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2 hours ago, Wik said:

All these haters are gonna be really mad when she is Lady of Winterfell or.........DUN DUN DUN!!!!!! Queen of Westeros......:D

Does it even matter now?

Honestly, the beauty of ASOIAF was that, at some moment, it would stop being about ambition and become about saving humanity. And all the 6 main characters are supposed to play a big role in that, in one way or another, so those who do survive that would lead the world into better world.

On TV show we basically have that after saving humanity we are back to killing, backstabbing and betraying like we always did.

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8 minutes ago, Risto said:

Does it even matter now?

Honestly, the beauty of ASOIAF was that, at some moment, it would stop being about ambition and become about saving humanity. And all the 6 main characters are supposed to play a big role in that, in one way or another, so those who do survive that would lead the world into better world.

On TV show we basically have that after saving humanity we are back to killing, backstabbing and betraying like we always did.

I'm confused by this. So having someone who is a better leader (and person) than Cersei is a bad thing? 

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1 minute ago, Wik said:

I'm confused by this. So having someone who is a better leader (and person) than Cersei is a bad thing? 

You missed the point. It is not about deposing Cersei, it is about this story which we have - a story that Throne is more important than fate of the humanity.

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1 minute ago, Risto said:

You missed the point. It is not about deposing Cersei, it is about this story which we have - a story that Throne is more important than fate of the humanity.

Ok......I was 100% a NK is way more important than King's Landing type of person but the fate of humanity is over....It's been completed (rather poorly I might add) and so what should happen? Huddle in Winterfell and allow Cersei to abuse her power and act like a nut on the throne? 

I guess I still don't get it. 

Yes, NK and the Others were a more important plot. But that plot is resolved....:dunno:

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1 minute ago, Wik said:

Yes, NK and the Others were a more important plot. But that plot is resolved....:dunno:

Not, NK and the Others were not more important plot. That is the issue here. 

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8 minutes ago, Risto said:

Not, NK and the Others were not more important plot. That is the issue here. 

Ok, I am thoroughly confused by your comments.....so Cersei is not a major issue and neither is the NK, the fate of humanity is though.....so they should have sent emissaries to both Cersei and the NK and tried to all work together to make a better Westeros, accepting of all humans, Others and dragons? 

Jokes aside, I'm serious, I am 100% confused, I don't know if we are arguing, agreeing or just saying different things completely. 

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27 minutes ago, Wik said:

Ok, I am thoroughly confused by your comments.....so Cersei is not a major issue and neither is the NK, the fate of humanity is though.....so they should have sent emissaries to both Cersei and the NK and tried to all work together to make a better Westeros, accepting of all humans, Others and dragons? 

Jokes aside, I'm serious, I am 100% confused, I don't know if we are arguing, agreeing or just saying different things completely. 

I think what Risto is saying that showrunners shouldn' t have ended the war against the Night King in such a worst way imaginable. They should have done a better job but they didn't. So matter how they write the future episodes that sting will not go away.

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The NK and saving humanity IS the more important issue. But the way the show has been written, it was treated like a distraction for the main event - Big Bad Boss Cersei. Having her be elevated to endgame is the travesty. She should have been taken care of beforehand or be an afterthought.

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1 hour ago, shameeka said:

I think what Risto is saying that showrunners shouldn' t have ended the war against the Night King in such a worst way imaginable. They should have done a better job but they didn't. So matter how they write the future episodes that sting will not go away.

Well if that is what they are saying, then I agree 100%.....but I chalk it up to a shity show version opposed to the (hopefully) good book version. 

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Posted (edited)

Fire is just as destructive and threatening to humanity as ice. I mean just read the author's statements to the Bulletin of the Atomic Scientists. Valyrians built their empire on fire and blood and it ended in fire and blood. Targaryens build their empire on fire and blood and it will probably end the same way. Cersei is just doing what any Targaryen would do, Dany included. Dany is going to be dragged down to Cersei's level - perhaps lower - to win. This is still compelling drama. As for Sansa, I'm very eager to see how she defends the North's independence and how she plays Jon's claim to advantage the Starks. I want her and Sam to work together to push for him being chosen after Cersei and Dany explode themselves. 

Edited by Rose of Red Lake

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2 minutes ago, Rose of Red Lake said:

Fire is just as destructive and threatening to humanity as ice. I mean just read the author's statements to the Bulletin of the Atomic Scientists. Valyrians built their empire on fire and blood and it ended in fire and blood. Targaryens build their empire on fire and blood and it will probably end the same way. Cersei is just doing what any Targaryen would do, Dany included. Dany is going to be dragged down to Cersei's level - perhaps lower - to win. This is still compelling drama. As for Sansa, I'm very eager to see how she defends the North's independence and how she plays Jon's claim to advantage the Starks. I want her and Sam to work together to push for him being chosen after Cersei and Dany explode themselves. 

i agree!

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Posted (edited)
12 minutes ago, Rose of Red Lake said:

Fire is just as destructive and threatening to humanity as ice. I mean just read the author's statements to the Bulletin of the Atomic Scientists. Valyrians built their empire on fire and blood and it ended in fire and blood. Targaryens build their empire on fire and blood and it will probably end the same way. Cersei is just doing what any Targaryen would do, Dany included. Dany is going to be dragged down to Cersei's level - perhaps lower - to win. This is still compelling drama. As for Sansa, I'm very eager to see how she defends the North's independence and how she plays Jon's claim to advantage the Starks. I want her and Sam to work together to push for him being chosen after Cersei and Dany explode themselves. 

My guess would be that Sansa and her plotting cohorts are contacting the various other kingdoms like the Eyrie, Riverlands, etc to be a unified force to back Jon. It could explain why Yohn Royce is missing. Which means she already knows who Jon is. But then my guess is based on logical plot arc direction, and the show writers have demonstrated they don't like that, they rather go for the 'unexpected'.

Edited by longest night

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I had a theory that Sansa is a character who will never use her own two hands to spill blood or carry out executions and instead, through other mediums. For e.g. Ramsay being killed through the hounds, Lysa through LF (indirectly), LF through Arya, Joffrey through Olenna/LF (indirectly), the man who almost raped her through the Hound. It's like as if she is a fulcrum of major events and fate sends her these intercessors to off every single dire threat could potentially result in her death. Whatever pressing situation she was put in, she always got out.

And I thought this episode kind of supports my theory. A dragonglass dagger was given to Sansa by Arya but it was not used in any way. Sansa is never meant to be that 'badass' engaged in any combat/swordfights.

What do you guys think?

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Posted (edited)
6 hours ago, princess brittany said:

dany just rode a dragon. arya was the real hero.

You're not giving Daenerys (and Jon) enough credit. 
Without them knocking the NK off Viserion, there's no way Arya would've been able to kill the NK.

There where many heroes this episode.
(Well, except maybe for Bran. I genuinely have no clue what his purpose was this episode, other than bait.)
Just because you're not the one to physically end up killing the NK doesn't mean everything you did was pointless. 
This battle was a team-effort for the living. Take out one of the key ingredientscharacters (Jon, Daenerys, Beric, Sandor, Theon, Melisandre, etc. and the NK would've won.

Edited by MinscS2

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3 minutes ago, bloodsteel bitterraven said:

What a shame.  They should have kept that scene.  D&D suck.

It would stop a lot of people hating, that's for sure. Ugh.

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