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Risto

Discussing Sansa XXXVI: Long Night

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I'm loving Sansa this season. I wish she had used the dragonglass. I also loved her line about being useless. She was right, this isn't her arena. The Stark sisters are as different as the sun and the moon. Arya ended the night, the fight for the day is Sansa. This next 2 episodes, Sansa is going to own. 

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6 hours ago, AryaNymeriaVisenya said:

I'm loving Sansa this season. I wish she had used the dragonglass. I also loved her line about being useless. She was right, this isn't her arena. The Stark sisters are as different as the sun and the moon. Arya ended the night, the fight for the day is Sansa. This next 2 episodes, Sansa is going to own. 

OMG you are so right. Get hype!

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17 hours ago, Risto said:

Does it even matter now?

Honestly, the beauty of ASOIAF was that, at some moment, it would stop being about ambition and become about saving humanity. And all the 6 main characters are supposed to play a big role in that, in one way or another, so those who do survive that would lead the world into better world.

On TV show we basically have that after saving humanity we are back to killing, backstabbing and betraying like we always did.

How do you know that? have you ready the Script for episode 6?

Why not wait until the end, and what the future looks like before condemning it?

What if part of the bittersweet ending is Danny coming to the realization that her Dragons represent too much power, so she has to let them go? What if, as a result of all this there is no Iron throne or Monarch to sit in it?

I don't know what is coming next, but this point, where the dead are beaten, but the leadership of Westros is in question has been inevitable since day 1.  Its probably why Martin cannot make progress on his books.

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2 hours ago, Larger than Average Finger said:

Why not wait until the end, and what the future looks like before condemning it?

You have a point... I just can't believe that Game is more important than War for Dawn. We'll see what the future holds for us.

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4 hours ago, Larger than Average Finger said:

What if, as a result of all this there is no Iron throne or Monarch to sit in it?

 

I hope this correct. I had thought after the Long Night the 7 kingdoms would rule themselves, go there own ways just like the tribes did in Essoss after the first Long Night. We have money on the ending at work and if this happens I Surely win. Lol

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On 4/29/2019 at 12:09 AM, D-Shiznit said:

Sansa has been nothing but an impediment this whole season, her feud with Dany is so freakin' useless its not even funny, neither is her continued lust for ruling the North. I'm glad the audience and the show ( through Missandei) is finally calling her out on it. I 'm so happy Dany and Jon leave Winterfell and we don't have to deal with Sansa's ungrateful ass again.

I have a feeling Sansa will go to KL with the rest for the war for the crown.   Plus I think that she and Cercei have to meet again for Cercei to see Sansa is no longer a little dove.....but a strong woman who learned alot at Cercei's elbow.

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Strategically, it would be inadvisable for Sansa to go to KL with the rest of her remaining family.  If Jon and Arya (and Bran) got to the capitol, they will be in direct danger (again) of being killed by Cersei and/or Euron (or their forces). Who will unify the North around House Stark, then?  One Stark should stay behind and try to rebuild Winterfell or at least live until that can be accomplished.  Sansa can continue the Stark line if her siblings die; she can't if she's dead.  And I don't think that Jon & co. are traveling down south to parlay this time; they're going to destroy Cersei and Euron. Sansa's not a warrior.  She should start the process of rebuilding the exhausted North and Winterfell, and stay North.

Besides, I think Cersei still believes that Sansa connived at Joffrey's death; and will try to have her killed if Sansa comes within her reach.  I also can't help thinking that Tyrion is going to betray Dany and/or Jon to Cersei...

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16 hours ago, Pandean said:

It would stop a lot of people hating, that's for sure. Ugh.

yeah it would.

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Sansa is going South with the army she held in reserve of the Glovers and Vale Warriors under Royce (who was notably missing in episode 3 after being shown twice in conspiratorial looking conversations with Sansa in the first two episodes). 

I’m guessing Bran is the Stark that stays in Winterfell. I’d like it if he turns evil somehow to give a final twist, but am not hopeful that will happen. 

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Maybe.  I think Sansa might be killed if she returns to the South.  Maybe she was negotiating a deal with Royce for some more food for Winterfell and the North?  (as far as we know, Winterfell only had enough food for a year, which won't be enough for the years-long winters; unless the end of the Night's King will break that cycle and bring normal seasons).

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34 minutes ago, Raksha 2014 said:

Maybe.  I think Sansa might be killed if she returns to the South.  Maybe she was negotiating a deal with Royce for some more food for Winterfell and the North?  (as far as we know, Winterfell only had enough food for a year, which won't be enough for the years-long winters; unless the end of the Night's King will break that cycle and bring normal seasons).

I don't think there's enough population left in the North for food shortages, and they can safely forage now.

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19 hours ago, Risto said:

You have a point... I just can't believe that Game is more important than War for Dawn. We'll see what the future holds for us.

Its not, but it had to be resolved first. 

Going after the throne first would seem like swatting a mosquito while a tiger was ripping your head off.  

It clearly would have made more sense on the surface to wait one more episode to do that, but let see if they can make this pay off.

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Just because Dany is pursuing her quest for the throne, doesn't mean it's actually important overall. I dont think the show is necessarily endorsing that viewpoint. The Starks wanting Cersei dead doesn't exactly mean they care if Dany sits on the throne or not. I still think Northern Independence is going to be a thing. 

 

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7 hours ago, Larger than Average Finger said:

Its not, but it had to be resolved first. 

Going after the throne first would seem like swatting a mosquito while a tiger was ripping your head off.  

It clearly would have made more sense on the surface to wait one more episode to do that, but let see if they can make this pay off.

The entire point of WW in the books was to stop the endless fights and focus on what is really matter. In TV show, it seems the throne is the most important. That is simply a betrayal of everything ASOIAF truly represents.

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6 hours ago, Rose of Red Lake said:

Just because Dany is pursuing her quest for the throne, doesn't mean it's actually important overall. I dont think the show is necessarily endorsing that viewpoint. The Starks wanting Cersei dead doesn't exactly mean they care if Dany sits on the throne or not. I still think Northern Independence is going to be a thing. 

 

They ended the battle between humanity and the White Walkers in less than a single episode.  So, clearly, to the show, it wasn't very important, since there is still 50% of the season left.  So, I don't see how the show isn't endorsing that view, the people who ignored the threat, lost nothing, not a single person, the South is entirely untouched from the greatest threat to mankind in a few thousand years.

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6 hours ago, Cas Stark said:

They ended the battle between humanity and the White Walkers in less than a single episode. 

And they began it several seasons ago, and we've seen the NK and the AotD win at every turn up to this point (Fist of the First Men, Hardholme, Bloodravens Tree, Wighthunt, Last Hearth, etc.), and they where mere moments away from winning the Battle of Winterfell as well, and despite ultimately loosing they took almost the entire defending army with them.

The NK and the AotD was a massive threat. The NK being killed when it's (only!) 3 episodes doesn't diminish this.

I get that a lot of fans are annoyed that things didn't pan out the way they hoped for and had imagined it would in their head canon, but acting like the NK wasn't the biggest threat our "heroes" have ever faced in this show is beyond silly. 
 

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7 hours ago, Cas Stark said:

They ended the battle between humanity and the White Walkers in less than a single episode.  So, clearly, to the show, it wasn't very important, since there is still 50% of the season left.  So, I don't see how the show isn't endorsing that view, the people who ignored the threat, lost nothing, not a single person, the South is entirely untouched from the greatest threat to mankind in a few thousand years.

I'd narrow it down further. Cercei, who's never even left the court of Kings Landing her entire adult life save for one jolly up north in S01E01, and has zero interest in life beyond KL, turns out to have called it right. The implications of that are sickening- over 70 solid hours of TV over eight years of every character except her being completely and utterly wrong. Pah!

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On 5/1/2019 at 12:30 AM, unJon said:

Sansa is going South with the army she held in reserve of the Glovers and Vale Warriors under Royce (who was notably missing in episode 3 after being shown twice in conspiratorial looking conversations with Sansa in the first two episodes). 

Glover wrote to Winterfell in Ep1 basically telling the Starks to get stuffed for Jon swearing to Dany. 

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Posted (edited)

I think ending with the White Walkers erases character greyness so I'm glad it didn't happen. They all get redemption at the end because they fought the good fight? How trite. This entire second act is about Dany's character and how low she'll have to go to win. The good character dilemmas come from the game, not from existential crises. Its super easy to oppose zombies and identify good/evil. The author has said that an EXTERNAL battle between good and evil is a fantasy trope and he's not really writing that. 

Edited by Rose of Red Lake

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On 4/29/2019 at 6:27 PM, Tianzi said:

Are they going for the romance with Tyrion? Ew.

Looks like. I bet that's why the writers put Tyrion in the crypts instead of fighting with everyone else. 

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