[Spoilers] Episode 803 Discussion

[Amaretto]

What happened to Yohn Royce and the Vale army in this episode? Did they finally go home to their Lord?

[RhaenysBee]

I have never in the history of this show said this before, but I must say it now. 

1/10. 

No explanation needed. 

I hated 72 out of 77 minutes. 

Edited April 29, 2019 by RhaenysBee

[nyser1]

24 minutes ago, Amaretto said:

What happened to Yohn Royce and the Vale army in this episode? Did they finally go home to their Lord?

They heard that Lord Robin laid an egg and went to watch it hatch.

[RhaenysBee]

Lord Robin, Cersei, Euron and the entire south was watching tv while The War of the Age happened. 

[Adam_Up_Bxtch]

18 hours ago, divica said:

That is a good question.

What is the point of jon's life now? have sex with danny?

 

18 hours ago, hallam said:

Good point!!!

But it was really Mel did it. And she thought Stannis was the Prince of Light earlier. She only realizes it was Arya when Beric dies.

I guess so. Looking back it seems Jon was brought back specifically as fan service and because of R+L=J. Wouldn't be surprised if Jon just stays dead in the books after this bullshit.

Seems the prince that was promised prophecy was horseshit because Arya is not a princess or of Targaryen blood unless the Robb Stark/Jon Snow kingship still counts which would technically make Arya and Sansa princesses of the North, but they don't because Jon bent the knee so none of the Starks would be considered princes or princesses. So they threw that prophecy out the window for "Omg be shocked that Arya was the one to kill the Night King!"

[Tygett Lannister]

2 hours ago, Arya's Sideboob said:

Should have given Jamie a dragonglass dagger hand!  Arya is awesome man, c'mon.  She's one of the most highly trained fighters on the show, even at her young age.  I've thoroughly enjoyed her arc and her nude scene with the fake boobage was spectacular.

Yeah the NK had some major swag.

Apparently fighting with a staff while blind of a few months makes you most trained fighters in the show. Unlike half the characters that trained fighting for their entire life. 

Nothing awesome about Arya, unless you think murdering people and baking them into pies is awesome. 

[longest night]

59 minutes ago, Amaretto said:

What happened to Yohn Royce and the Vale army in this episode? Did they finally go home to their Lord?

I've been wondering that since the preview of episode 3. It only ever showed Vale infantry The last we saw Royce was when he excused himself during a meeting with Sansa.

[A Bong of Ice and Fire]

7 minutes ago, Adam_Up_Bxtch said:

 

I guess so. Looking back it seems Jon was brought back specifically as fan service and because of R+L=J. Wouldn't be surprised if Jon just stays dead in the books after this bullshit.

Seems the prince that was promised prophecy was horseshit because Arya is not a princess or of Targaryen blood unless the Robb Stark/Jon Snow kingship still counts which would technically make Arya and Sansa princesses of the North, but they don't because Jon bent the knee so none of the Starks would be considered princes or princesses. So they threw that prophecy out the window for "Omg be shocked that Arya was the one to kill the Night King!"

You don't know that D&D threw anything out the window for a "badass" Arya moment.  Supposedly they are following major plot points laid out by GRRM.  So it's not unlikely that GRRM told them that Arya plays a big role in defeating the White Walkers.  

And don't discount the possibility that this seemingly anti-climatic episode was a huge swerve.  I get the feeling that something went down between Bran and the Night King, and that the Night King isn't really dead and will be back in a big plot twist.  Or maybe D&D really are just hacks.  We'll find out soon enough.

Edited April 29, 2019 by A Bong of Ice and Fire

[cybobbie]

Well I've been reading so many complaints and I get many of them, but I'm pleased that the show is wrapping up in the best way that they could to please most of the fans that didn't read the books. I decided when the show surpassed the books that I would not compare and complaint anymore, since I'm more frustrated with all this years of waiting for the 6th book. I also take into consideration the work and effort of cast and crew. I mean they filmed this episode during 37 nights at 14 degrees bellow, that's hard.

As for the episode, just the show, no comparisons to books, I think that Arya was a good choice, since John would be too lame for my taste as the one killing off the NK. As for ending so fast, well they kept repeating for a while now that killing the king would do the trick, so I was expecting a sudden action. If he didn't fall as he did, all the characters would die, because there was no way that they could keep going longer. 

I didn't like what they did or didn't do with Ghost all this season. He came from nowhere in the beginning of this season and was running with Jorah in the battle to simply die in the dark? I also didn't like Sansa's behavior in the crypt. I know she is not a fighter, but children were dying there and she was hiding? I also didn't get Bran's actions, I mean how was he helping/seeing things during the battle? I hope we get to know more in the next episode. In the other hand, I liked the way that they killed Lyanna, Jorah and Theon.  They also managed to keep me tense during all the episode, apart from the dragons flying in fog, that was very hard to see.

Edited April 29, 2019 by cybobbie

[longest night]

There's just a various number of questions I have.

1. Why did Bran need Jon to know about his father and mother right at that moment? Wouldn't that indicate his birth was important to the upcoming battle or the defeat of the Night King? Which is exactly what was suppose to have happened. Yet here we are, nothing from it. 
2. Why has every vision that Bran has had to specifically to do with Jon? Yet again, nothing came of it.
3. Why was Bran waiting for Jaime, yet Jaime had no major part in the War for the Dawn?
4. What was Bran doing exactly when he warged those ravens? We never actually saw him do anything, but he stayed that way for awhile.
5. Where is Yohn Royce and the knights of the Vale? Last we saw him he was with Sansa.
6. Why did so many major characters survive?
7. Why is Bran alive if his character arc is complete?

Edited April 29, 2019 by longest night

[Nightwish]

23 minutes ago, longest night said:

There's just a various number of questions I have.

1. Why did Bran need Jon to know about his father and mother right at that moment? Wouldn't that indicate his birth was important to the upcoming battle or the defeat of the Night King? Which is exactly what was suppose to have happened. Yet here we are, nothing from it. 
2. Why has every vision that Bran has had to specifically to do with Jon? Yet again, nothing came of it.
3. Why was Bran waiting for Jaime, yet Jaime had no major part in the War for the Dawn?
4. What was Bran doing exactly when he warged those ravens? We never actually saw him do anything, but he stayed that way for awhile.
5. Where is Yohn Royce and the knights of the Vale? Last we saw him he was with Sansa.
6. Why did so many major characters survive?
7. Why is Bran alive if his character arc is complete?

 

Honestly I think that all these are valid questions but none of this has an answer. Fans are reading too much into script and YouTube with all the fan theories and discussions, everybody looking for clues even inside NK’s eye is just too much, it hasn’t helped.

Sure one of ten theories may come alive especially the ones that are foreshadowed in the books like Johns parents or perhaps Tyrion’s betrayal but from a point on nothing means more than what it means. It’s a show. Apparently they invest on effects so the rest is history. They are not going to answer every detail. 

Edited April 29, 2019 by Nightwish

[longest night]

6 minutes ago, Nightwish said:

 

Honestly I think that all these are valid questions but none of this has an answer. Fans are reading too much into script and YouTube with all the fan theories and discussions, everybody looking for clues even inside NK’s eye is just too much, it hasn’t helped.

Sure one of ten theories may come alive especially the ones that are foreshadowed in the books like Johns parents or perhaps Tyrion’s betrayal but from a point on nothing means more than what it means. It’s a show. Apparently they invest on effects so the rest is history. They are not going to answer every detail. 

I am definitely not attempting to theorize. I won't theorize the TV show because I know they are bad writers. Those questions are just so damn obvious, I am wondering how the writing could be this bad,

[Nightwish]

1 minute ago, longest night said:

I am definitely not attempting to theorize. I won't theorize the TV show because I know they are bad writers. Those questions are just so damn obvious, I am wondering how the writing could be this bad,

I know. They don’t make sense but they don’t care also. I have stopped all theories trying to guess since it’s a show of impressions. Still feel sorry about fans that are trying to make a sense out of this or come with another theory that the show may serve or not. 

[Nihiloth90]

58 minutes ago, A Bong of Ice and Fire said:

You don't know that D&D threw anything out the window for a "badass" Arya moment.

Besides that the episode was so dark and difficult to see things, the divergence from the battles into that long Arya side plot, dodging zombies and meeting up with the Hound and Beric, was probably one of the dumbest things I've seen in this show. How she defeated the Night King was just hilariously bad. Arya jumps out of nowhere, Night King is easily defeated by dragon glass. You'd think he might have some kind of immunity to it, at least. Whole thing was a letdown.

Many of the final scenes also made no sense to me. I don't know if I can explain why, but the dragons ruined this whole episode for me; Jon and Daenerys riding the dragons and doing aerial battles--I don't know why, but it was just stupid. Then, Jon and Daenerys get knocked from their dragons; Daenerys is alone and so they are able to shoehorn that Jorah moment in. Why would Drogon take so long to get back to Daenerys? It would take too long to write a list about all the things wrong with this episode, but everything felt rushed and shoehorned in.
 

Edited April 30, 2019 by Nihiloth90

[unJon]

2 hours ago, Amaretto said:

What happened to Yohn Royce and the Vale army in this episode? Did they finally go home to their Lord?

Maybe Sansa schemed with him to send him somewhere as part of a power play after the Long Night. That’s how D&D do foreshadowing and the two of them were “caught” twice scheming in Episodes 1 and 2. 

[HausOfMark]

Watching the episode for the 3rd time and its just ask nerve racking as it was watching the first time!

[Ser Yorick Ampersand]

3 hours ago, BigFatCoward said:

Please be so, instead of whining about it like a little baby. 

God forbid some criticism in a Forum dedicated to discussion.

Maybe we should close the Rant thread despite it being the biggest one for this episode.

Edited April 30, 2019 by Ser Yorick Ampersand

[Serril Of Tarth]

4 hours ago, LHakaLH said:

It's quite apt that my GoT discussion group with friends is now called "The Long Shite"

Happy shitting

[greensleeves]

So some people are complaining that Rhaegar not interpreting a prophecy correctly makes the story 'unfulfilling' somehow...

...but that's literally one of the most classic story arcs out there:

1. Character hears a prophecy
2. Character commits all kinds of horrible acts as a result
3. It turns out the character interpreted the prophecy incorrectly (lol hubris)

It's a great narrative (and one GRRM is fond of).

It also serves as good counterpoint to the most overused, overhyped plot out there:

1. Boy is just an ordinary guy who gets picked on... poor him
2. ... but wait! Turns out boy is actually super special because of prophecy/secret birth/random unearned thing

When women are the heroes of this kind of plotline it's called 'Mary Sue'. 

I'm not sure if Arya will be *the one* who saves humanity from the WW in the books, but having Jon turn out to be a savior figure would be deeply cliche in the worst way. Jon can still be a hero and have a great story arc without being a prophesied savior of humanity.

Anyways, now I hope we finally get a War of Three Queens.

[longest night]

A Mary Sue is a perfect, idealized character that does everything perfectly without the training necessary to do it. Rey and Wesley Crusher are both examples of this.