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[Poll] How would you rate episode 803?

How would you rate episode 803?  

473 members have voted

  1. 1. What's your rating from 1-10, with 10 being the highest/best?

    • 1
      66
    • 2
      19
    • 3
      41
    • 4
      30
    • 5
      37
    • 6
      38
    • 7
      49
    • 8
      56
    • 9
      53
    • 10
      84


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Posted (edited)
6 minutes ago, Kajjo said:

Against wights? What would be the sense of disguising as someone else?! You are just moaning and hating for nothing here.

Many other complaints have also explained before.

lol, this topic is about rating the episode. i stated my opinion thats all thats to it. and giving the latest episode a 6 is hardly hating. 

Edited by GilletteMace

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1 hour ago, #teamNightking said:

The charge of the Dothroki makes sense all things considered. What else do you do with them?

Take away their horses or put highly effective cavalry inside the castle? (Not to mention I don't think the Dothroki would agree to fight off their horses) No. 

Put them behind infantry? No one does this. 

Excuse them from the fight and save them for fighting Cersei? Pretty sure everyone else fighting would be all, "oh hell no!"

Have them fight defensively from a fixed position? (The Army of the Dead was about to close in and charge) No. 

Send them out in a flanking action? What's the point? They would have been swallowed up. 

Or, use them in a charge (what they do best) and have them retreat back on their horses if necessary? 

Keeping in mind no matter what they do they are all outnumbered about 10/3 and likely to die. 

I don't have a problem with the charge and it provided an awesome visual. 

 

 

 

While flanking would be less effective against a unit which is unbreakable, it would certainly be better than a head on, uncoordinated frontal charge, which was obviously sucidal

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1 hour ago, #teamNightking said:

The charge of the Dothroki makes sense all things considered. What else do you do with them?

Take away their horses or put highly effective cavalry inside the castle? (Not to mention I don't think the Dothroki would agree to fight off their horses) No. 

Put them behind infantry? No one does this. 

Excuse them from the fight and save them for fighting Cersei? Pretty sure everyone else fighting would be all, "oh hell no!"

Have them fight defensively from a fixed position? (The Army of the Dead was about to close in and charge) No. 

Send them out in a flanking action? What's the point? They would have been swallowed up. 

Or, use them in a charge (what they do best) and have them retreat back on their horses if necessary? 

Keeping in mind no matter what they do they are all outnumbered about 10/3 and likely to die. 

I don't have a problem with the charge and it provided an awesome visual. 

We've already seen the value of trapping the opposition forces in the BotB, so it would have made complete sense for Jon to suggest letting the Unsullied do their thing first to halt the Undead charge and then having the Dothraki attack from each side of the undead forces. Would that have succeeded? Probably not. Would it have been smarter than what they did? Without a shadow of a doubt.

The charge idea they went with was moronic however many bad alternatives you offer.

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Posted (edited)

maybe drop some flares first with the dragons? not using the dragons to scout was military-wise not very smart to begin with...

 

Edited by GilletteMace

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1 minute ago, Dolorous Gabe said:

We've already seen the value of trapping the opposition forces in the BotB, so it would have made complete sense for Jon to suggest letting the Unsullied do their thing first to halt the Undead charge and then having the Dothraki attack from each side of the undead forces. Would that have succeeded? Probably not. Would it have been smarter than what they did? Without a shadow of a doubt.

The charge idea they went with was moronic however many bad alternatives you offer.

No matter what they did it would have failed and been seen as moronic. What would have been nice is 5 minutes exposition in the war room discussing strategy and pros and cons. Some arguing. The lack of that annoys me. It would be interesting and very important. But no. We never get that. 

And the show suffers for it. 

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15 minutes ago, Heartofice said:

While flanking would be less effective against a unit which is unbreakable, it would certainly be better than a head on, uncoordinated frontal charge, which was obviously sucidal

Or it would be like getting hit by a tsunami of undead from the side as they tried to go around. 

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1 minute ago, #teamNightking said:

No matter what they did it would have failed and been seen as moronic. What would have been nice is 5 minutes exposition in the war room discussing strategy and pros and cons. Some arguing. The lack of that annoys me. It would be interesting and very important. But no. We never get that. 

And the show suffers for it. 

We can agree there on the bolded. That's why I think it would have made sense for Jon to suggest such a tactic (since he has already seen it work in battle) in that scene had they properly written it.

A failed plan that was at least a decent idea would not have been seen as moronic. The Dothraki charge was never close to a decent idea.

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I disliked it so much that I'm not going to watch next week, so I guess a 1 is the only choice here.

I'm grateful that the show introduced me to the book series, which in turn encouraged me to read more fantasy than I would have otherwise, but virtually everything post-S4 has been an insult to the audience's intelligence.

Even the battle choreography, cinematography and music - things that you could always rely on, even after they ran out of source material - were completely underwhelming.

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Having defended what didn't bother me I will say what did bother me. Especially on rewatch. 

So much so I'd downgrade my rating if I could. 

Bad writing. Way too many "just in time" moments. 

If you did a drinking game and took a drink every time something happened "just in time" to save someone, you'd have no idea how the episode ends cuz you'd be passed out on the floor. 

And the just in time of all just in times Arya saves Bran just in time. And in so doing saves everyone still living just in time. 

It's just hack shock writing taking advantage of the expectation of many heroes dying and stringing together cheap "gotcha" moments. 

So disappointing. 

6/10

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Dolorous Gabe said:

A failed plan that was at least a decent idea would not have been seen as moronic. The Dothraki charge was never close to a decent idea.

Cavalry are a specific tool used a specific way to be effective. Mainly they charge. The horse needs speed to crash into the foe. 

Many cavalry charges in history have failed.  

But just because you might miss you don't use your rifle as a club. It's a rifle. It's made to shoot. 

However, I'll say this. Bran should have been able to tell them the size of the AotD. The 10k Dothroki charge makes more sense if they assumed a smaller force was arrayed against them. 

That being said let's say this, if their opponent could wipe out 10,000 Dothroki in mere seconds, there's no chance at all of any of them surviving for long under any circumstances or whatever the tactics. 

What makes sense is retreating. But if you retreat their army just gets bigger and bigger as they kill the peasants along the way. 

The further you retreat the stronger they become. 

In a sense this foe is too powerful. But also too weak, having an Achilles heel in the Night King dying. 

So they wipe out everything or are wiped out instantly. With no middle ground.  

Edited by #teamNightking
Typo

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What would have made sense is to use the dragons to kill the army of the dead as the first order of the battle.  Charging an enemy who is already dead and will turn your own dead to his side is pure stupidity. Maybe she should have left the Dothraki on dragonstone for this very reason, their skills are offensive, which won't work against this enemy. The unsullied are much better match to trying to fight and defend the living against the dead. 

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13 minutes ago, Cas Stark said:

What would have made sense is to use the dragons to kill the army of the dead as the first order of the battle. 

There are two potential issues with this though:

1) They won't be able to react in time if the NK swoops down and kills Bran. (Afaik they even talk about this in E2)
2) They don't know if the NK is hiding in the darkness with some more ice-javelins, just waiting to pick them off.

Evidently, the NK was busy simply floating high above, watching the carnage unfold, but the characters had no way of knowing this beforehand.

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9 minutes ago, Cas Stark said:

What would have made sense is to use the dragons to kill the army of the dead as the first order of the battle.

They went all in on the Bran plan and it wasn't ever a force v. force strategy. 

 

11 minutes ago, Cas Stark said:

Maybe she should have left the Dothraki on dragonstone for this very reason, their skills are offensive, which won't work against this enemy.

Agreed. Which Tyrion should have maybe suggested were he actually smart unlike how the show has portrayed him.

I'm still not convinced the Dothroki would have charged a massive army of dead and sacrificed themselves for her and Westeros. 

I mean I know they like her... But that?

More likely they head for the nearest port for passage back home.  

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Such a shit episode, there were a few pretty scenes, such as the dragons flying in the starlit sky, but that does not excuse for the incredibly awful battle, and butchering the main themes of the story. 1/10, wish I could give it less. Not only was it awful, but it retroactively ruins much of the show.

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17 minutes ago, #teamNightking said:

They went all in on the Bran plan and it wasn't ever a force v. force strategy. 

 

Agreed. Which Tyrion should have maybe suggested were he actually smart unlike how the show has portrayed him.

I'm still not convinced the Dothroki would have charged a massive army of dead and sacrificed themselves for her and Westeros. 

I mean I know they like her... But that?

More likely they head for the nearest port for passage back home.  

I'm generally irritated the way the Dothraki have faded into the background and now, all died in a mass suicide calvary rush.  Why weren't there any Dothraki in the war room scene?  If 40,000 are putting their lives at risk and they are the bane of an entire continent....where is their input in the strategy, eve if it would be, ah fuck it, we rush em, cause that's what we do.  Where is the dosh khaleen to give some something, magic/prophecy advice or something? Why didn't Dany replace her handmaidens or her blood riders? And at the end of the day, the Dothraki legends of crossing the sea were correct, it wasn't the water that killed them but they died for the crossing of it, nevertheless.

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While I understand all the "too dark" complaints, I too had difficult... however, once I saw that, I simply turned off the lights in the room where I was watching the episode and was able to see much better.   It wasn't as bad as everyone is making it out to be.  

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55 minutes ago, #teamNightking said:

Cavalry are a specific tool used a specific way to be effective. Mainly they charge. The horse needs speed to crash into the foe. 

Well obviously. But the timing of the charge and the choice of what they charge at is what's important. Why sacrifice the entire horde on a kamikaze charge when you could have the Dothraki charge into the flanks of the undead as they attack the Unsullied? At least they're in the vicinity of the castle so can more easily retreat when that becomes the sensible move.

I don't think anyone with any sense sends off a cavalry charge without a plan to support the attack, undead or otherwise. At the very least it has to be a decoy for something.

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52 minutes ago, Dolorous Gabe said:

Why sacrifice the entire horde on a kamikaze charge when you could have the Dothraki charge into the flanks of the undead as they attack the Unsullied? 

I keep seeing mention of these mysterious "flanks" of the undead horde. There weren't flanks. It was a massive overwhelming disorganized ocean of thousands upon thousands of fast moving undead. 

It was hopeless 

And cavalry being nearly worthless given the shock and awe value was completely useless against this foe. 

Seriously right before the battle Daenerys should have said "Now go flank them!" 

"Flank" wink wink being a code word for get the hell out of here so in case we win I still have an army albeit a small one. 

The unsullied otoh have always been expendable ; )

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59 minutes ago, Dolorous Gabe said:

I don't think anyone with any sense sends off a cavalry charge without a plan to support the attack, undead or otherwise. At the very least it has to be a decoy for something.

Well yeah. If they were going to meet on the open field the infantry maybe should have followed behind however, if the good guys and bad guys get all tangled up fighting the dragons can't burn the dead without burning the living. Poses a problem. Really when lighting their weapons on fire Mel should've also passed out red shirts to them all. 

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Posted (edited)
5 hours ago, #teamNightking said:

The charge of the Dothroki makes sense all things considered. What else do you do with them?

Chingghis's people did unbelievably suicidal actions on his part, their bodies making mountains in front of impregnable gates -- and finally succeeding.  But -- the thing of Mel putting their weapons on fire?  Without any warning?  Wouldn't you have dropped yours in a blink if it suddenly burst into flame?

Again, logic and intelligence sacrificed for something looking cool, but had no purpose ultimately for story, action or characters.  But then, I hated the LOTR's scene in which the signal fires are lit to summon Rohan -- oooooooo everybody cooed, this is so coooooooooool.  Except all the fires are set above the cloud line so who the hell saw them?

Of course sending off a cavalry charge without any plan to back it -- that was something the late 13th and the 14th century French kings were really good at . . . .

 

Edited by Zorral

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