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[Poll] How would you rate episode 803?


Ran
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How would you rate episode 803?  

478 members have voted

  1. 1. What's your rating from 1-10, with 10 being the highest/best?

    • 1
      68
    • 2
      19
    • 3
      41
    • 4
      30
    • 5
      37
    • 6
      38
    • 7
      50
    • 8
      56
    • 9
      53
    • 10
      86


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Worst episode ever. I gave it a 1 . Can't believe they killed.my main man the NK  - not even sure I want to see the rest now. And they killed him with Arya - she of the nonsensical broken arc. Guess it is symbolic of how fucking stupid the storytelling has become in this show.

Only good bit was that little Mormont brat biting it.

Edited by ummester
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2/10

It was utter crap. 

The action was often badly shot and characters felt pointless, many disappearing for much of the action. Why they had whole armies outside the castle as literal wight-bait, I do not know. Bran - the oh-so important figure - is useless this episode, doing nothing but taking some ravens for a stroll. Fan service nonsense pushed this into video games/Marvel territory, betraying all sense of tension.Why are our characters now super-warriors slaying hordes of enemies, taking on dozens - if not hundreds - at a time? Everything with Arya and Lyanna Mormont made me cringe. Really hard. The show seems to have reversed the book: the existential danger is not the key focus, some foul-tempered asshole with a drinking habit in King's Landing is. Oh, riveting stuff!  They shoved an entire season of conflict into one episode. The library and crypts scenes were as generic horror as you can get. Tyrion and Sansa is ridiculous. The Night King was a bad idea from the start; a lazy way to wrap up this conflict in one of the worst resolutions I think I've come across in a fantasy. I have no idea what the fuck they've filled the next 80 minute episodes with, unless the White Walkers (who did nothing in the battle, ugh) make a comeback in some contrived manner, it's literally all that time to basically to pretend Team Dragon can't just eviscerate 20,000 normal humans while Cersei, I don't know, smirks and drinks wine and glowers? Who even cares at this point?

I've always had problems with the show, but I'm genuinely surprised it reaches this level of lowness. 

Edited by Ser Drewy
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The lighting of the Dothraki arakhs was tremendous.  +
The killing of NK with no explanation, no why, no reason?   -

Theon defending Bran and reclaiming himself.  +
Bran zooming out to somewhere was WHY?   -

Ser Jorah was a brave man who died defending the woman he loved +
Jon getting pinned down by Viserion.  -

Arya becoming all she can be  +
Sansa nothing but a coward.  Could she not have taken a few minutes ever day for some sword skills?  -

The music was great.  +
Did they have no money left for lighting -

Did Ghost live? 
D&D give the BIG ENDING of the series to CERSEI -

 

I am going with a 5.

 

 

 

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11 hours ago, CrypticWeirwood said:

Remember that Martin deliberately set out to smash the tired old tropes of high fantasy that were (and still are) being mindlessly repeated in an endless number of boring, predictable novels. We’ve seen this ever since Ned lost his head, and all the rest. 

No, he didn't. He disguised it well, but in the end Ned was the mentor/father figure who has to die in this kind of stories.

Anyway, I gave it an 8, but I think I was a bit too generous. It should have been a 6 or 7. The very good stuff was Arya killing the Night King. And it was totally something that was build up for her over seasons. The really bad stuff was that it happens two episodes too soon. Having the Night King die without impacting a larger part of Westeros diminishes the threat and also the theme and moral of the entire storyline. 

Also it was way to dark (literally), but most deaths were genuinely touching and well done.

Edited by BadAssRobinArryn
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58 minutes ago, Dragon in the North said:

The Night King wasn’t defeated in a single episode. He has been in every season since season 4, and besides last night, has played a role in 4 big White Walker sequences.

It still wasn't executed well. It isn't even the quantity that's the problem, is how they resolve that entire storyline. Wasn't the theme of the entire show that all those people are fighting for the throne and are ignoring the real threat beyond the wall? And now that threat is gone and all those people south of the Neck, who ignored it, were proven right.  

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I gave it a 10. Best action scene on tv for me. Very tense, and the dark scene was for us to get their perspective of battling at night, when you have limited visibility and all. Very frustrating, bet its also very immersive. Didnt want the Night king to die so early but one of the major antagonists had to go soon.  Also we all thought that almost everyone was going to die, and Arya hit the buzzer beater. thats just me tho.. Also, years ago i separated myself from the books, and realized that this is tv, and its going to be watered down from the source material. HBO has money to make.

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52 minutes ago, Ser Drewy said:

2/10

It was utter crap. 

The action was often badly shot and characters felt pointless, many disappearing for much of the action. Why they had whole armies outside the castle as literal wight-bait, I do not know. Bran - the oh-so important figure - is useless this episode, doing nothing but taking some ravens for a stroll. Fan service nonsense pushed this into video games/Marvel territory, betraying all sense of tension.Why are our characters now super-warriors slaying hordes of enemies, taking on dozens - if not hundreds - at a time? Everything with Arya and Lyanna Mormont made me cringe. Really hard. The show seems to have reversed the book: the existential danger is not the key focus, some foul-tempered asshole with a drinking habit in King's Landing is. Oh, riveting stuff!  They shoved an entire season of conflict into one episode. The library and crypts scenes were as generic horror as you can get. Tyrion and Sansa is ridiculous. The Night King was a bad idea from the start; a lazy way to wrap up this conflict in one of the worst resolutions I think I've come across in a fantasy. I have no idea what the fuck they've filled the next 80 minute episodes with, unless the White Walkers (who did nothing in the battle, ugh) make a comeback in some contrived manner, it's literally all that time to basically to pretend Team Dragon can't just eviscerate 20,000 normal humans while Cersei, I don't know, smirks and drinks wine and glowers? Who even cares at this point?

I've always had problems with the show, but I'm genuinely surprised it reaches this level of lowness. 

This is well said.  That is a bit low for my liking, and like many others I really do try to separate the book from the show.   One of my big complaints is the same as yours, basically how this light fantasy became high fantasy with super soldiers.  I mean, it wasn't handle that way in the earlier season but it started to slowly shift that way, maybe because its more of a spectacle?  I don't know, but that just doesn't sit right with me since it is so vastly different from the books.    I know its a different beast, and truth be told I do enjoy it, even if I am more critical than I should be because I have been so attached to the books for so long.  I guess it just seems out of place, then again the shift into the new seasons is so vastly different than the beginning as well, with pace and plot etc... 

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I think this is the case of the episode in a vacuum being very tense and enjoyable, but the larger context of it feels like a let down. I gave it a nine because it felt incredibly tense and had some amazing visuals but I felt the ultimate resolutions were much more neat than I thought they would end at.

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I gave it an 8, but I feel like I was too generous.  I thought some things were done very well.  The spectacle was really excellent, it looked very cinematic.  I thought the tension at the beginning of the episode was well done.  I thought the scene where the Dothraki were quickly overwhelmed and silenced was quite creepy.  They would have had no chance, charging into a horde like that. 

Jorah's death was well done and moved me the most, it was very Boromir-esque.  All he has survived, to go like this.  It was a fitting way to go, though, and it was the way he would have wanted to die:  laying his life down for Daenerys.   Theon's death was well done too.  I think he knew he was going to die when he volunteered to protect Bran. 

Honestly, with the way they portrayed the hordes of the dead and the way they swarmed and piled up, I have a hard time believing that anyone survived.  That Jaime and Brienne for example would not have been totally overwhelmed. 

Some scenes definitely felt like I was watching The Walking Dead, especially the scene in the library. 

I appreciated that Sandor snapped out of his stupor to protect Arya.  

Sam would have been better off fighting in the crypts. 

I think they killed Ghost off screen.  I'm really disappointed with how they have treated the relationships between the siblings and the wolves as the seasons went on.  It seems that Jon traded Ghost for Rhaegal without batting an eye. 

The worst part for me was Arya leaping Wolverine-style at the NK.  It's not that I felt Jon had to kill the NK (though I wish they had at least fought.  All we got was smoldering eye contact ha ha).  I just don't understand how Arya did it whatsoever and I feel like we may never know.  Maybe there will be an explanation, maybe there won't be.  How did she get past the dead?  How did she fly past the WW?  I just don't get it.  

The other part I don't get, that I really hope is explained, is what Bran was doing.  I just expected him to be more helpful, and I hope he was actually doing something and we just don't know what it was!

I don't know if it was here or on Reddit, but I've seen some people say "was it really necessary at all for Dany and her armies to be there?"  YES.  No one would have been able to retreat if not for the unsullied.  Vast numbers of wights were wiped out with the dragons.  

As many have mentioned, I did find it hard to see what was happening at times.  A bit too dark and sometimes a bit too muddled.  (I know they were going for a feeling of chaos, but the audience still needs to be able to tell who is doing what or it'll fall flat)

I was sad to see Winterfell partially destroyed.  I was just thinking back to the first episode and all that has changed between then and now.  The people who used to be there who are gone, the home that is now a shell and has been witness to so many awful sights... 

And finally:  the AotD and the NK being dead already.  I was definitely surprised.  I'm not sure yet how I feel about it.  It did feel "too easy".  I expected the dead to be the bigger threat over Cersei/IT and whatever else happens in the next few episodes.  I'll reserve my final judgement over whether the NK was killed too soon, for when I finish the season and see how the rest of the episodes play out.  Right now if feels like it will be anticlimactic, but we'll see... 

Edited by Red Dragon10
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Just my 2 cents on some reported tactical issues.

Winterfell isn't a huge castle (just compare it to the Red Keep, or to the Dragonstone Fortress, for instance) and so are its walls...therefore you can't put trebuchets or big catapultss up there. Consequently also the courtyards aren't that large, so again...big trebuchets (u really need a big empty area for them to work) aren't an option there as well (to make it short, it's Winterfell, not Minas Tirith ^^). Catapults: if u place them inside, u need a very long space ahead to hit very far, otherwise u will hit your own walls, or u will be forced to aim too high (and that will shorten your shots a lot).

Then, don't forget this is not an ordinary "medieval battle", as there is magic involved.

U could use pitch all around the castle to set the whole plain on fire at will? Well...that's a huge amount of pitch to get...maybe they simply didn't have enough of it? Moreover, u might have noticed that the NK's magic was preventing all ordinary fires to burn and only Melisandre's spell could fight it, setting fire to the trench (and even she had a lot of probs in doing it).

About the Dothraki's charge: they said no army could match the Dothraki in an open field (do you remember what they did to Jamie's army, right?), so they had their flaming weapons, they were overconfident...and they just got silently annihilated...one of the most powerful scenes in the whole episode, imho. 

Why did they charge almost immediately? Because the dead weren't moving at all...they had their pride, their past experiences of invincibility, etc etc. Ofc they could have waited for the dawn to attack...but [see what I wrote before ^^].

About Jon doing almost "nothing": well, it was Jon with Rhaegal to physically engage Viserion and the NK while flying, making this one falling down, so he actually did something "significant" ^^

Ok...I guess I've bored you enough, so I (almost :P) stop here :)

P.S. I expected Jon at least to throw Longclaw down Viserion's throat: just yelling at it in frustration was a bit...meh ^^ About Arya assaulting unnoticed the NK...well, the Faceless Men are by far the best assassins of the world, so no one is better than them to kill a single target: they can hide better than anyone, they can move better than anyone, they can fight 1 vs 1 better than anyone...you can say there is even some "magic" in their skills (starting from their ability to wear faces ofc), so I'm ok with that ^^

P.S, #2 My favourite ending would have been this one: while the NK is in front of him, Bran touches the weirwood, animating it, and this one smashes to NK to the ground like an omelette...lol (j/k) :D

Edited by alinoris
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6 minutes ago, Magnamax said:

I think this is the case of the episode in a vacuum being very tense and enjoyable, but the larger context of it feels like a let down. I gave it a nine because it felt incredibly tense and had some amazing visuals but I felt the ultimate resolutions were much more neat than I thought they would end at.

Exactly how I feel, there are really only a couple maybe 3 of large picture questions in the show, how will the NK be defeated, who will rule Westros (or how will it be ruled) and how will the wheel be broken. My expectations to answer each of them is huge. 

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So glad Mr. Evil Fantasy Trope and his Evil Fantasy Trope Minions are dead.... EARLY. 

Now the we can move on to the #2 threat to Westeros as was originally written in the outline and the more compelling threat, Dany.

 I gave it a 6. Loved the Death mood setting in the battle, but hoped for more human moments. 

Edited by Rose of Red Lake
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1 hour ago, ummester said:

Can't believe they killed.my main man the NK

He represents death and evil. Why not wanting him dead?! You are having fun with us?

1 hour ago, ummester said:

And they killed him with Arya - she of the nonsensical broken arc

Arya's arc makes a lot of sense. Don't be a hater.

 

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8/10

 

First episode I like of the season so far.

 

The climax of the battle was very well built in the beginning, with everyone staring at an enemy they could not see (neither could we). The strategy was good but putting the Dothrakis in front... that was sending them to death! Though it gave a great cinematic effect by the way their blazing swords started fading in the dark.

 

Now I really want Dany to be in the throne. She not only provided the north with a huge army, dragons, dragonglass, she also fought! She didn't know how to held a sword and still she stood there helping Jorah. And appart from that, Dany's decisions choices during the battle were those of the leader I expect her to be - Dany telling Jon the dead were already there and not to wait for the Night King to come was courageous as well as a bad idea - On one hand, here we have a true queen worrying about the people, on the other we lose a strategist (she could have lit the trench if she had not moved from her view point).

I felt the flight scenes a little long, specially when the snow storm hit them. But loved the scene where they flew way up in the sky, beautiful! And we had the Dracarys moment (Did dragon fire have no effect on the NK because he could only be killed with dragonglass or because he was also a Targaryen in the past?)

 

Jon... Same Jon we saw in the battle of the bastards. Him and his sword all alone running towards an army he, somehow, manages to evade. I hate the way the show depicts him as an invulnerable hero. Then, him standing there in front of Viserion and shouting at him? He couldn't get more stupid there. Honestly, if he dies by the end, I wound't care.

 

The crypt scene was predictable, although I liked the tender scene between Sansa and Tyrion when everything seemed lost.

 

I am intrigued now about 3 things about Bran: 1. Where was he warging? He did more than just look at the NK with the crows and we are missing that. 2. The look he gave Tyrion in the beggining before he went down to the crypts. 3. The way he looked at the NK once they were face to face.

 

The ending was nothing predictable. I was not linking everything Melyssandre told Arya as clues explaining she'd be the one who killed the NK. The way that scene was handled was great IMO. I was waiting for Dany or Jon to kill the NK but this one surprised me for good.

 

Best of the episode:
Arya
Brienne and Jaime fighting side by side
Lyanna killing a giant
All dead being resurrected
Visuals - Dothraki blades fading, dragons flying in the sky

The music

Worst of the episode:
Jon
Ghost running to the dark and never appearing again, what happened to it?
Sam lying everywhere doing nothing but making people get killed
Long dragon flight
Long library scene - seemed like a Resident Evil game

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48 minutes ago, alinoris said:

Just my 2 cents on some reported tactical issues.

Winterfell isn't a huge castle (just compare it to the Red Keep, or to the Dragonstone Fortress, for instance) and so are its walls...therefore you can't put trebuchets or big catapultss up there. Consequently also the courtyards aren't that large, so again...big trebuchets (u really need a big empty area for them to work) aren't an option there as well (to make it short, it's Winterfell, not Minas Tirith ^^). Catapults: if u place them inside, u need a very long space ahead to hit very far, otherwise u will hit your own walls, or u will be forced to aim too high (and that will shorten your shots a lot).

This is all D&D's fault. They made Winterfell this pathetic castle since season 1. But at least season 1 you could blame it on the smaller budget. Winterfell is the seat of the north, and they treat it like a small little fort. There is nothing grand or spectacular about it in the show, and it has been a letdown from the get-go.

Edited by SuperMario
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5/10 for me. Did not think this compared well to other big battle scenes in the series. My qualms have already been mentioned by others already but in sum:

Could hardly see what was going on, who was doing what, etc. I get the whole "immersive battle experience" idea, but this was too much. 

The battle did a good job of creating a sense of hopelessness. However, it felt so hopeless that I couldn't imagine any way for any one to get out alive except by killing the Night King. At that point I figured he was going to get taken out, which was a disappointing realization. We've been told for several seasons now that he is the real threat, and that squabbles over the iron throne are just meaningless nonsense. But now he's defeated so we're left fighting over the damn iron throne again.

Melisandre making her very pointed "blue eyes" remark to Arya was when it clicked for me that they had decided Arya would be the Night King's undoing, and again I was disappointed. Yes her faceless man training makes her a formidable assassin, but again, why build up prophecies and drop hints over several seasons if what ends up happening doesn't line up with them at all? It seems when they decided it would be Arya they dug around for some old dialogue that could be interpreted as predicting her as the chosen one to end the (not so) long night. I do not think when Mel originally told Arya about shutting many eyes of different colors she was referring to the Night King and gang. I think she was just seeing Arya's future as a killer of many people, who happen to have varying eye colors.  

Lastly, why even bother showing Ghost if all he does is run off with the Dothraki toward the army of the dead (which, terrible strategy in my opinion - there goes your whole cavalry) and then just.... disappears? 

Of course I will stick around to see how this all plays out, but it is disappointing to know that the remaining enemy is Cersei. I am sort of hoping the Night King isn't entirely defeated. Or maybe Qyburn will try and create his own version of the Night King like the children of the forest did? Doubtful, but I can hope... and be disappointed again.

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0 from 10

or -10 if possible...

What was this?
Visually, I couldn not making out the half of what was happening - and I guess this was the one and only good thing at all!

Storytelling-wise, it was nothing at all as well.


Where to start...???

Mel setting the Arraks on fire, the Dothraki charging - into nothing, and dissapear...
Jon and Dany flying around like "Ragnarok-Roundtrips on Dragonback, only a golden dragon each. Burning some Whigts has to be booked seperately..."
Bran in the godswood saying nothing and doing nothing...
Arya jumping into the enemy, fighting like a berserker, then loosing her weapon and running around like a frighend weasel, saved by Beric, talking with Mel and immediately ninjaing the Night King, and Happy End at once. Worst storytelling ever!

And so on and so on...

Edited by The Chequered Raven
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