Rant and Rave Without Repercussion End of The World Edition [Spoilers]

[Einheri]

1 hour ago, Vuron said:

The PtWP prophecy never says the he/she will actually kill anyone and Jon is still the hero of the story.  Without him personally gathering together all the forces he did, against all odds, the world would have been lost.

Except this turned out to be a massive waste of time as these forces were almost immediately destroyed by the undead, and all would have been lost if not for deus ex Wolverine. Sure the dragons did some of the lifting, causing the NK to fall off his mount (one he wouldn’t even have had if not for the stupidity seen in the previous season), and presumably preventing him from simply roasting the TER in an aerial attack, but seeing how obsessed he seemed with being the one to personally kill the TER rather than simply having one of his goons do the dirty work for him, I think he might have done that anyway.

In other words, there was actually no need for people to set aside their petty squabbles and come together to fight an existential threat. One assassin was pretty much all that was needed to win the war.

 

(If we go by this episodes logic, maybe they should have just listened to Dondarrion in 7x06, and attempted a charge towards the NK’s position. As thickly padded in plot armor as these characters seem to be, they probably would have made it…)

[Ser Arthur Hightower]

Didn't think anything short of TWoW finally dropping could get me back on here, but damn this fucking episode has done it.

I had given up on the politics in like season 4-5 when it was pretty clear that unless they were following the books closely they had no idea how to make the big players (Varys, LF, Doran, Euron, Roose, Stannis et cetera) behave in a way that was even remotely logical or compelling. But still for the last 3 seasons I have mostly been enjoying all of the beyond the Wall/White Walkers stuff. And even if the way Viserion died was stupid, it was still absolutely amazing to see the Night King riding unViserion and bring the Wall down, so even though I didn't give a shit about Cersei and Dany and the rest of the would-be rulers, I was really anticipating the epic climax for the last 2 years.

And then it is over in one episode, Arya kills the Night King and his whole army dies. The Army of the dead gets only halfway down the North, the forces of Westeros didn't have the unite against the threat; the only southern forces were those of The Vale, and a dozen named characters, the rest is all fought by the north and Dany's men.

Of course Azor Ahai prophecy is completely ignored and seemingly none of it means anything.

I can't believe how bad the writing of this truly was, I have had a pretty low opinion of D&D for a long time, as do most of us here, but damn I can't believe how badly they screwed this entire arc up. Literally any of us could outline a far better story than this in 5 sentences.

Army of the dead wins at Winterfell, Jon and Dany reluctantly order a retreat, Unsullied and remaining Night's Watch volunteer to stay back as a rearguard so that the rest of the army and the Northern civilians can escape south. They reach the South with the AoTD close behind, but are savaged by remaining Lannisters and GC, and are ironically only saved when the AoTD catches up with them and attacks both armies, barely escaping with their lives. Eternal night (but better lit) sets in, as does despair and defeatism, Jon and/or Dany is/are the only one(s) that can keep it together, and rallies the entire remaining strength of Westeros for a massive battle outside of King's Landing. Afterwards no one is gonna argue with Jon and/or Dany taking the throne and the GoT is resolved. Series ends with new king/queen/both approaching the Iron Throne as the sun finally rises.

They could even keep Arya killing the NK and I would be perfectly happy with it, but it should have been something like Jon sending her to infiltrate the AoTD, knowing it will be at the cost of her life. Her actions will leave the enemy leaderless and give the living a chance in the final battle, and she could be Jon's Nissa Nissa.

[One-Eyed Raven]

22 minutes ago, Vuron said:

I might agree that killing the Freys could have been the point of her arc if it had even been mentioned, but it seems like all of Westeros doesn't even seem to be aware that they're gone.  

Yeah, that's weird. It's almost like the overall narrative in S.7 might have benefited from developing this a bit more.

Cersei: Oh, shit. The North remembers. How'd they do that, though? And more importantly - did they find the fruit basket and thank you note Tywin sent?

Qyburn: This can only be the work of the Faceless Men because reasons. And yes, they know. They removed Lord Frey's head and stitched a pineapple in its place.

Cersei: I want a Faceless Man. I want a Faceless Man right now!

Cersei and the four or five other people at KL would have something to do in S.7, at least. And - arguably - it sets up a more reasonable showcase for Arya's mad skills in S.8. Black ops gymkata makes more sense in KL than in the Godswood, at least to me.

But there was the Wight Hunt to attend to, so I can see where there was no time for this sort of thing.

[Dragons Are Real]

30 minutes ago, Ser Arthur Hightower said:

Army of the dead wins at Winterfell, Jon and Dany reluctantly order a retreat, Unsullied and remaining Night's Watch volunteer to stay back as a rearguard so that the rest of the army and the Northern civilians can escape south. They reach the South with the AoTD close behind, but are savaged by remaining Lannisters and GC, and are ironically only saved when the AoTD catches up with them and attacks both armies, barely escaping with their lives. Eternal night (but better lit) sets in, as does despair and defeatism, Jon and/or Dany is/are the only one(s) that can keep it together, and rallies the entire remaining strength of Westeros for a massive battle outside of King's Landing. Afterwards no one is gonna argue with Jon and/or Dany taking the throne and the GoT is resolved. Series ends with new king/queen/both approaching the Iron Throne as the sun finally rises.

They could even keep Arya killing the NK and I would be perfectly happy with it, but it should have been something like Jon sending her to infiltrate the AoTD, knowing it will be at the cost of her life. Her actions will leave the enemy leaderless and give the living a chance in the final battle, and she could be Jon's Nissa Nissa.

If anyone at HBO reads this post at any time, they'll feel their head spin right off their shoulders from the "AH-HA!" ricocheting around inside their skull.

That would be an entirely satisfying end, and give them plenty of chances for big battle moments and even a few shocks here or there as the north retreats towards King's Landing, with certain major players sacrificing themselves so the others can keep moving.

Bravo!

[Corvinus85]

Unfortunately, for all our ranting and raving, we're on the losing side. Behold the Arya challenge https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/game-of-thrones-fans-are-doing-thearya-online-172326636.html

[Cas Stark]

36 minutes ago, Corvinus said:

Unfortunately, for all our ranting and raving, we're on the losing side. Behold the Arya challenge https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/game-of-thrones-fans-are-doing-thearya-online-172326636.html

I still believe, maybe naively, that the show's reputation is going to take a long term hit now.

[Zorral]

2 hours ago, Dragons Are Real said:

I have HBO Now.  1st and Ten hasn't ever been there.  Unless they just added it in the last month or so.  I usually check about every three months.

In more topical news:

I'm beginning to see cracks in the show apologists today.  Those that originally said episode 3 is amazing are starting to say that if we don't get any further exposition on the Night King, the entire show may actually be a waste.

Of course, some others are saying that they have complete faith in the show because it always follows through on every promise.  I'm trying to determine what show they think they're watching, because it can't be GoT.

I watched them all -- all the episodes of all the previous seasons on HBO Now.

Wait!  I lie!  I watched all the eps (except what I skipped / ff through) of 1 - 4.  I didn't watch 5 or 6 because I hardly watched any of the episodes originally either, just bits and pieces that weren't bits and pieces tortured off people.

I re-watched all of season 7 on HBO Now..  I watch season 8 on HBO Now.  I can watch when it airs originally, at 9 PM Sunday nights EDST, and even then I can pause, fast forward whatever.  And I can rewatch too, if I want.

I really can and do that.  That's how I watch. I don't have a television and never have.  I watch on my nice great big desk top monitor.

 

 

[divica]

Just now, Cas Stark said:

I still believe, maybe naively, that the show's reputation is going to take a long term hit now.

I think it all points to the fans being angry with the episode. On the other hand social media is selling it as a huge sucess...

I don t know what will be the final veridict…

[Dragons Are Real]

31 minutes ago, Zorral said:

I watched them all -- all the episodes of all the previous seasons on HBO Now.

Wait!  I lie!  I watched all the eps (except what I skipped / ff through) of 1 - 4.  I didn't watch 5 or 6 because I hardly watched any of the episodes originally either, just bits and pieces that weren't bits and pieces tortured off people.

I re-watched all of season 7 on HBO Now..  I watch season 8 on HBO Now.  I can watch when it airs originally, at 9 PM Sunday nights EDST, and even then I can pause, fast forward whatever.  And I can rewatch too, if I want.

I really can and do that.  That's how I watch. I don't have a television and never have.  I watch on my nice great big desk top monitor.

 

 

Ah, we're talking about different things.  I know GoT is available on HBO Now, that's how we watch it too.  I'm saying HBO doesn't have all their shows available on HBO Now, such as 1st and Ten, a terrifically funny comedy about a fictional football team from the 80s.

[RhaenysBee]

1 hour ago, Corvinus said:

Unfortunately, for all our ranting and raving, we're on the losing side. Behold the Arya challenge https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/game-of-thrones-fans-are-doing-thearya-online-172326636.html

Oh dear lord, is this at least ironic? 

39 minutes ago, Cas Stark said:

I still believe, maybe naively, that the show's reputation is going to take a long term hit now.

I do have this kind of faith in humanity too. We will see, I suppose. 

[Nami]

I'm seeing a lot of hate towards this show now after last episode, and from people who loved every crap the show pulled on us too.

I really feel this finale is gonna be the most disappointing series finale on TV ever. For the people that loved the show of course. I personally expect disappointment since season 4.

[Zorral]

13 minutes ago, Dragons Are Real said:

Ah, we're talking about different things.  I know GoT is available on HBO Now, that's how we watch it too.  I'm saying HBO doesn't have all their shows available on HBO Now, such as 1st and Ten, a terrifically funny comedy about a fictional football team from the 80s.

OK -- I see!  ya, we were talking of two different things.

[LucyMormont]

2 hours ago, Vuron said:

I actually have to agree with D&D on this one.  As much as people on this board like to put down common fantasy tropes, having a battle between 100k+ living and dead come down to a 1v1 fight between the big bad and big good of the series would have been the worst of all.  That's why I agree that Jon shouldn't be the one that killed the NK.

The PtWP prophecy never says the he/she will actually kill anyone and Jon is still the hero of the story.  Without him personally gathering together all the forces he did, against all odds, the world would have been lost.

I also think Arya had to kill one of the main villains or her story would have been meaningless.  You can't show her learning/training to be a killer for 7 seasons to not have her kill a major player.  Having her entire arc revolving around killing the Freys would have been meaningless and I think Jaime or Tyrion have to kill Cercei.

Arya's arc is about her losses, and revenge for her family. Her path goes from being a powerless little girl who has to watch her family being butchered without being able to do anything,  to a point where she recovers her family and she's not powerless anymore. She is the only Stark that witnessed both Ned's beheading and Robb's headless body being  insulted and mocked by the Freys and Boltons in a kind of "ride of shame".
Her full circle comes with recovering her family, and NOW having adquired all the skills and means to prevent something like that from happening ever again. Revenge is not what drives her anymore, it's to protect what's left of her pack -Sansa, Jon, and now Gendry.
Jon's arc is about the WW, with him being put in a position where he becomes aware of the threat and from then on the only thing that matters to him is how to stop that. Bran's arc is about becoming a powerful enough magical being to be able to confront an extinction level (magical) being. 
When you tell a story,  you have a plot with different storylines, and characters that evolve within that plot and those storylines. 
Everything that happens must have a cause and a consequence, all must be earned and have a payoff. Storytellig wise, surprises must have a build up, so that when you look back, you see that they were "in the oven", are  logical as outcome of the previous events, do not contradict anything already established (and you don't need your characters to behave inconsistently "out of character", but that's another thing). You can see the signs, even when you maybe missed them the first time, you can see they are there. AND the more attentive and reflexive viewer/reader can predict that "that was coming". 
Arya jumping from the sky and stabbing the Night King is NOTHING of that, it's not only the cheapest of Deux ex Machina, but it breaks the whole story and ruins Jon's arc just to "surprise" the viewer. What kind of "surprise" is that?? As somebody in this same forum said, it is just as if they built up Cleganebowl for years, and then when the 2 brothers are facing each other , comes Tormund out of the blue and kills the Mountain. 
There's a reason why was Tyrion the one who killed Tywin, there's a reason why was Olenna the one who ordered Joffrey's death and Littlefinger the one who did it; there's a reason why the Freys and the Boltons are the ones who betrayed Robb. Not that they couldn't be killed by somebody else, but their demise must come from people or events they had a relation with,  a shared storyline, in which they affected the other person's life.  Tywin could have been killed by the Martells (avenge of Ellia/her children's murder), or even by Robb in battle, but not by someone he never had anything to do with.
That kind of "surprises" have the same value as him falling from his horse, smashing his head on a stone and dying. 
I thought D&D understood this basic rule of storytelling when they let Sansa be the one that killed Ramsay (even when that was psycho in the execution and the end of an horrid storyline of their own creation that should have never existed), because nobody had "earned" that payoff more than Sansa, being even with Theon. 
The final blow to the NK should have been given by Jon, or Bran. Maybe Dany  (for Viserion). But not Arya. 
They f**k it up big time. 
No to mention the pointlessness of Bran too. He was never meant to be involved in the "Game", the 3ER is a magical being, what are they going to do with him now?

[Dragons Are Real]

4 minutes ago, Nami said:

I'm seeing a lot of hate towards this show now after last episode, and from people who loved every crap the show pulled on us too.

I really feel this finale is gonna be the most disappointing series finale on TV ever. For the people that loved the show of course. I personally expect disappointment since season 4.

The funny thing about this is we've been conditioned and built up to expect a hugely disappointing finale since season 4.  So nearly four full seasons of the expectation that we will be punished for sticking with it.  Has any television show ever been able to keep a crowd hate-watching like this one?  I mean, this isn't some late game swerve where you get one episode of fail after ten years of awesome.  We've seen the writing on the wall for years now, yet some of us keep watching.

There is some form of talent in creators that can fail so hard they make the viewer want to keep watching just to see how large the train-wreck can get.  They're doing a spectacular job on that level.

[LucyMormont]

14 minutes ago, Dragons Are Real said:

The funny thing about this is we've been conditioned and built up to expect a hugely disappointing finale since season 4.  So nearly four full seasons of the expectation that we will be punished for sticking with it.  Has any television show ever been able to keep a crowd hate-watching like this one?  I mean, this isn't some late game swerve where you get one episode of fail after ten years of awesome.  We've seen the writing on the wall for years now, yet some of us keep watching.

There is some form of talent in creators that can fail so hard they make the viewer want to keep watching just to see how large the train-wreck can get.  They're doing a spectacular job on that level.

I've been consistently disappointed from season 4, but I had some hope that the final wouldn't be that disappointing because it was drafted by GRRM, it had to reach the same point even when it was through a different journey, and I wanted to know the endgame for the characters I used to love.  

I really don't enjoy to hate-watching, I just want to know the end and really don't believe George will give us one, that's the only reason I kept watching.

[Cas Stark]

23 minutes ago, Dragons Are Real said:

The funny thing about this is we've been conditioned and built up to expect a hugely disappointing finale since season 4.  So nearly four full seasons of the expectation that we will be punished for sticking with it.  Has any television show ever been able to keep a crowd hate-watching like this one?  I mean, this isn't some late game swerve where you get one episode of fail after ten years of awesome.  We've seen the writing on the wall for years now, yet some of us keep watching.

There is some form of talent in creators that can fail so hard they make the viewer want to keep watching just to see how large the train-wreck can get.  They're doing a spectacular job on that level.

Realistically, most people aren't hate watching.  I think that this last episode was poorly done, and certainly a lot of critics and bloggers have complained that this was underwhelming in light of the whole series.  But, you still have and will have a lot of hell yeah viewers.  I now expect that the next three episodes will be equally bad and stupid, so maybe a truly terrible ending will at least harm the show's reputation going forward, but that remains to be seen.  It falls apart the more you pay attention to it, and that's a fact, that kind of a weakness is generally an indicator of a re evaluation coming down the pike in a few years.

[Nami]

25 minutes ago, Dragons Are Real said:

The funny thing about this is we've been conditioned and built up to expect a hugely disappointing finale since season 4.  So nearly four full seasons of the expectation that we will be punished for sticking with it.  Has any television show ever been able to keep a crowd hate-watching like this one?  I mean, this isn't some late game swerve where you get one episode of fail after ten years of awesome.  We've seen the writing on the wall for years now, yet some of us keep watching.

There is some form of talent in creators that can fail so hard they make the viewer want to keep watching just to see how large the train-wreck can get.  They're doing a spectacular job on that level.

I believe most of us are hate-watching simply because it's the only ASOIAF related thing we can have right now. 

[Gianna Dorenberg]

The thing is, the big youtubers/western/social media, have nothing but positivity regarding the episode. I'm baffled honestly.

Like I'm not THAT smart of a person. When everyone said, season 7 wasn't good, I disagreed. I understood all of the criticism but I still enjoyed it. So if a numb numb like me can see the glaring mess that was episode 3, how come most of the people are not only liking it, but aggressively defending it. I tried reading the EW article about Maise Williams and her reaction to her being the one to kill the NK, her boyfriend said ''should've been Jon though, shoudn't it ?'' and immediately the comment section hated on him saying Maise should get a new boyfriend. In terms of story and buildup, it's only normal for people to think Jon should have gotten the kill. Has nothing to do with his gender. It's just an opinion. But to immediately see that as a reason to judge the person and label him without knowing the intend and the reasoning for saying that is very off putting. It's downright terrifying tbh ''You either think like me or we will burn you''. The entire EW comment section, not 1 criticism on there. After reading the comment section, I felt dumber. They were seriously defending the glaring flaws of the episode. I'm guessing, that there is a lot of MODERATION going on. They only approve the positive comments. Which is even more terrifying isn't it ?The big youtubers are the same. They're clearly intelligent people, most of them. But it's like they're afraid to give their honest opinion. Not much to say about social media. I feel like almost all of them are shallow ignorant superficial beings. At least based on my surroundings and the people I know.

I think there is some damage control going on and the real questions/criticism is being oppressed and policed.

I wish I lived in an alternate universe where talk show hosts actually weren't afraid or policed to ask the REAL questions instead of the cookie cutter questions.

[longest night]

My favorite rant is still this rant.

 

[Ygrain]

8 minutes ago, longest night said:

My favorite rant is still this rant.

 

Ah, MauLer! My favouritest ranter ever since The Last Jedi! "Luckily, they cut away so s/he was fine".

 

BTW, anyone think now that Cat was a prophet? "Jon, it should have been you"