Rant and Rave Without Repercussion End of The World Edition [Spoilers]

[divica]

Just now, State Trooper said:

Looks like it.

And you don t find it ridiculous? That the threat people have feared for thousands of years can be defeated with simple weapons? They don t have to do anything special or magical to defeat this uber threat? 

[Lady Fevre Dream]

5 hours ago, Vuron said:

I think you might have misunderstood or I wasn't completely clear...

I'm not saying Arya is meaningless, but from a book and show standpoint, she has to kill someone more important than the Freys.  Arya is one of the most heavily featured characters in the books and most of her time is spent outside of Westeros.  There has to be more of a payoff for spending all this time on her development.  If not, it would be like Dany's arc if she never made it back to Westeros.  GRRM is setting her up for something big.

Now Jon.... the PtWP prophecy talks about leading the battle against the forces of Darkness.  Jon is, absolutely, the leader of the fight against the NK.  As Davos told Dany, he was the 1st to make allies of wildlings, became the leader of the Watch, king of the north, and even died.  He gave up being lord commander, gave up his crown, and gave his life, all to assemble the greatest force the world had ever seen to fight against an enemy that most still dont believe even exists.

We had northmen, wildlings, dothraki, unsullied, dragons, and people from the south all assembled because of Jon's actions.  He's been stupid at times, isn't a great strategist, and doesn't think long term, but he is a good recruiter.

We've had it all wrong, Jon is TRTWP?  The Recruiter That Was Promised??  LOL  I'm not saying he's TPTWP, AZOR AHAI, Lightbringer, but I think he's been built up to be more than a recruiter.  All in all, the main problem is not only that is was Arya (my 1st fav book character by the way, inspite of D&D trip I do adore Maisie as her for the most part), that the battle plan sucked, and the team work should have shown a lot more.  If the Ds showed their work on the TEAM WORK, there wouldn't be so many complaints that say it was 'just Arya.'  I think Cersei had it right, according to D&D logic, they are all just TEAM SUCKER!!  Wait, that Cersei bit actually proves that Jon is not The Recruiter That Was Promised, otherwise this would be over, right? 

[divica]

Just now, darksellsword said:

I think you throw your lot in with D&Ds thinking that if it's magic then any old shit can happen. There was a certain amount of world building involved in this story you might have noticed and everything even magic has its own backstory and established strenghts and weaknesses. You don't have an icedemon Nightking which has a clear vulnerablity to fire suddenly impervious to Dragonfire even though he has never once in his 8000 years + encountered a Dragon, it's just stupid

He could survive the dragon fire, but at least he had to use his ice/snow/fog powers to counter the fire and still be phisicaly hurt. So that it gives the idea that with enough dragon fire he could die...

He can t just be unscalthed and give a smirk… That is just garbage….

[Lady Fevre Dream]

7 minutes ago, divica said:

Wait, what promise has the show delivered?

Not many, hence the laughter.  I'm still two pages back, maybe I'll find evidence to prove me wrong. 

[Nami]

On 4/29/2019 at 7:21 PM, Cas Stark said:

It was.  I went pretty easy on ep. 1 & 2, I sensed the show was at least trying.  This was a total clusterfuck of stupidity from A to Z, beginning with the darker than dark 'natural' lighting insanity, moving through to gutting 7 years worth of story about the WW, and ending with a totally unearned Arya Stark badass kill.  Truly, the series cannot recover from this, it is ruined retro actively because so much of what went before is moot and ruined for the final 3 episodes of Cersei because who even gives a fuck?

Indeed. Since all prophecies and 90% of arcs didn't matter, if anyone begins to watch this crap I'll tell them to watch season 1-4 and then go to season 8 to get the ending.

[divica]

Just now, Nami said:

Indeed. Since all prophecies and 90% of arcs didn't matter, if anyone begins to watch this crap I'll tell them to watch season 1-4 and then go to season 8 to get the ending.

It surprises me that people don t understand or want to see how much of the show story this single ep ruins...

[darksellsword]

If we were to signup to D&D's logic and Jons plan to just blast the Nightking with dragonfire then wouldn't it have been a better strategy for Dany and Jon to just fly out on their dragons and suckerpunch the Nightking thus avoiding thousands of people dying for a fained defense?

[TNTW]

39 minutes ago, LucyMormont said:

Actually, it seems that a scene was filmed where Sansa and Tyrion actually kills at least one of the undead with that dagger. But they left it out.

Ahhh, hadn't heard that. 

[LucyMormont]

8 minutes ago, State Trooper said:

Maybe you should stop watching it if it bothers you that much.

Maybe you should go to another thread, this is to Rant and Rave. 

[sweetsunray]

As fellow poster, I'm reminding posters of the OP: this is a RANT thread, not a debate thread.

Now for the episode:

Killing the NK with 3 x 80 min episodes left is anticlimatic. That's like killing Sauron at the start of Return of the King. And yes I know there's a scouring of the Shire, but it doesn't take half of the last book.

Arya killing the NK was a cool shot, and the winking out of the Dothraki was a cool visual... but the logic behind the latter, the logic of N being invulnerable to actual dragonfire but not dragonsteel or frozen fire is questionable. They cut a scene of Sansa and Tyrion killing a wight in the crypts, when a wight falling onto some of the defense structures with pointy dragonglass glued on it can kill a wight like it's nothing. After rewatching and the making off, Sam actually did kill a lot of wights. Apparantly Jon bumps him and he falls, and he still keeps stabbing wights. But the way it was edited no wonder people think he killed nobody. And I do think Jon shouted "gooooooooo! gooo! go!" to Arya instead of Viserion, but they sure made it look as if Jon was a bumbling fool who hasn't accomplished a major kill in an actual battle since Hardhome.

I can enjoy the jingling keys, but I really have to switch of my brain for it. They've done some bad stuff in the past and I think BatB was awful strategy, but beig such underdogs, I actually had hoped this episode would be more than jingling keys.

[Cas Stark]

Just now, sweetsunray said:

As fellow poster, I'm reminding posters of the OP: this is a RANT thread, not a debate thread.

Now for the episode:

Killing the NK with 3 x 80 min episodes left is anticlimatic. That's like killing Sauron at the start of Return of the King. And yes I know there's a scouring of the Shire, but it doesn't take half of the last boo.

Arya killing the NK was a cool shot, and the winking out of the Dothraki was a cool visual... but the logic behind the latter, the logic of N being invulnerable to actual dragonfire but not dragonsteel or frozen fire is questionable. They cut a scene of Sansa and Tyrion killing a wight in the crypts, when a wight falling onto some of the defense structures with pointy dragonglass glued on it can kill a wight like it's nothing. After rewatching and the making off, Sam actually did kill a lot of wights. Apparantly Jon bumps him and he falls, and he still keeps stabbing wights. But the way it was edited no wonder people think he killed nobody. And I do think Jon shouted "gooooooooo! gooo! go!" to Arya instead of Viserion, but they sure made it look as if Jon was a bumbling fool who hasn't accomplished a major kill in an actual battle since Hardhome.

I can enjoy the jingling keys, but I really have to switch of my brain for it. They've done some bad stuff in the past and I think BatB was awful strategy, but beig such underdogs, I actually had hoped this episode would be more than jingling keys.

I thought the closed caption show that Jon isn't shouting "GO"

I didn't see Sam kill anyone?  But then I couldn't see much of anything.

[Tianzi]

11 minutes ago, State Trooper said:

Looks like it.

That's why it's lame.

If it required a dragon, at least that would be something that used to be inaccessible in Westeros, thus making the NK look a bit tougher as a villain.

[Nami]

8 minutes ago, divica said:

It surprises me that people don t understand or want to see how much of the show story this single ep ruins...

Stannis arc and everything that resulted from it, plus all Melissandre scenes were completely worthless. In fact, I believe just this episode alone ruins everything that happened  in the series as a whole aside from R+L=J, Cersei blowing up people and usurping the IT and Dany getting her ass to Westeros because the end is gonna be the drama between these three bitches.

 

And, let's be honest, most of the unsullied watching this show have been invested in this because of the shock value and cool dragons/battles. They're definitely not it for the writing. I bet you they don't even remember Stannis and all Melissandre scenes prior to this season. Because all of that turned out to be a waste of fucking time and money.

[sweetsunray]

3 minutes ago, Cas Stark said:

I thought the closed caption show that Jon isn't shouting "GO"

I didn't see Sam kill anyone?  But then I couldn't see much of anything.

The caption says he's shouting. But it's something like "[g]oooooooooooooooo![g]oooo![g]oo!" Guess they didn't want to "spoil" it with the subtitles that Jon was shouting at anybody else but Viserion. But Arya had to get to the godswood via the courtyard where Jon was stuck with the ice dragon.

I'm willing to fully admit I'm just honeypotting to feel better about Jon's role in the end of the NK.

[Cas Stark]

2 minutes ago, Nami said:

Stannis arc and everything that resulted from it, plus all Melissandre scenes were completely worthless. In fact, I believe just this episode alone ruins everything that happened  in the series as a whole aside from R+L=J, Cersei blowing up people and usurping the IT and Dany getting her ass to Westeros because the end is gonna be the drama between these three bitches.

I'm not sure it didn't ruin R&L too.  Jon's Targaryen blood wasn't of any importance in the battle, there was no reason why Bran felt he 'had' to know RIGHT NOW, it didn't affect his decision to try and ride a dragon, or anything.  No one in the South, realistically, will believe the WW battle even happened, so why would they take Jon as their king? on the word of his bat shit brother and best friend?

[Lady Fevre Dream]

2 hours ago, LucyMormont said:

Arya's arc is about her losses, and revenge for her family. Her path goes from being a powerless little girl who has to watch her family being butchered without being able to do anything,  to a point where she recovers her family and she's not powerless anymore. She is the only Stark that witnessed both Ned's beheading and Robb's headless body being  insulted and mocked by the Freys and Boltons in a kind of "ride of shame".
Her full circle comes with recovering her family, and NOW having adquired all the skills and means to prevent something like that from happening ever again. Revenge is not what drives her anymore, it's to protect what's left of her pack -Sansa, Jon, and now Gendry.
Jon's arc is about the WW, with him being put in a position where he becomes aware of the threat and from then on the only thing that matters to him is how to stop that. Bran's arc is about becoming a powerful enough magical being to be able to confront an extinction level (magical) being. 
When you tell a story,  you have a plot with different storylines, and characters that evolve within that plot and those storylines. 
Everything that happens must have a cause and a consequence, all must be earned and have a payoff. Storytellig wise, surprises must have a build up, so that when you look back, you see that they were "in the oven", are  logical as outcome of the previous events, do not contradict anything already established (and you don't need your characters to behave inconsistently "out of character", but that's another thing). You can see the signs, even when you maybe missed them the first time, you can see they are there. AND the more attentive and reflexive viewer/reader can predict that "that was coming". 
Arya jumping from the sky and stabbing the Night King is NOTHING of that, it's not only the cheapest of Deux ex Machina, but it breaks the whole story and ruins Jon's arc just to "surprise" the viewer. What kind of "surprise" is that?? As somebody in this same forum said, it is just as if they built up Cleganebowl for years, and then when the 2 brothers are facing each other , comes Tormund out of the blue and kills the Mountain. 
There's a reason why was Tyrion the one who killed Tywin, there's a reason why was Olenna the one who ordered Joffrey's death and Littlefinger the one who did it; there's a reason why the Freys and the Boltons are the ones who betrayed Robb. Not that they couldn't be killed by somebody else, but their demise must come from people or events they had a relation with,  a shared storyline, in which they affected the other person's life.  Tywin could have been killed by the Martells (avenge of Ellia/her children's murder), or even by Robb in battle, but not by someone he never had anything to do with.
That kind of "surprises" have the same value as him falling from his horse, smashing his head on a stone and dying. 
I thought D&D understood this basic rule of storytelling when they let Sansa be the one that killed Ramsay (even when that was psycho in the execution and the end of an horrid storyline of their own creation that should have never existed), because nobody had "earned" that payoff more than Sansa, being even with Theon. 
The final blow to the NK should have been given by Jon, or Bran. Maybe Dany  (for Viserion). But not Arya. 
They f**k it up big time. 
No to mention the pointlessness of Bran too. He was never meant to be involved in the "Game", the 3ER is a magical being, what are they going to do with him now?

This is the type of post made for the like and love and favorite buttons.  Perfect!! 

[divica]

Just now, Nami said:

Stannis arc and everything that resulted from it, plus all Melissandre scenes were completely worthless. In fact, I believe just this episode alone ruins everything that happened  in the series as a whole aside from R+L=J, Cersei blowing up people and usurping the IT and Dany getting her ass to Westeros because the end is gonna be the drama between these three bitches.

yeah, r+l=j seems to be ruined in ep 2 where jon just acepted it and was fine 5 secs later...

And I think arcs like robb's, ned, yara, theon, balon, renly and people that died early enough to not be involved in this war are still good.

Can you really find a reason for jon to want the IT for himself?

[Ser Quork]

3 minutes ago, sweetsunray said:

The chaption says he's shouting. But it's something like "[g]oooooooooooooooo![g]oooo![g]oo!" Guess they didn't want to "spoil" it with the subtitles that Jon was shouting at anybody else but Viserion. But Arya had to get to the godswood via the courtyard where Jon was stuck with the ice dragon.

I heard this so I watched that scene with the subtitles on and it says, "Yells.  (Viserion growls.)"  And I don't hear "Gooooooooooooo!" - I hear "arggghhh".  

[Nami]

1 minute ago, divica said:

yeah, r+l=j seems to be ruined in ep 2 where jon just acepted it and was fine 5 secs later...

And I think arcs like robb's, ned, yara, theon, balon, renly and people that died early enough to not be involved in this war are still good.

Can you really find a reason for jon to want the IT for himself?

oh god let's brace ourselves for the possibility that Jon will marry Dany and they will rule together after defeating THE ULTIMATE THREAT CERSEI LANNISTER.

[divica]

Just now, Ser Quork said:

I heard this so I watched that scene with the subtitles on and it says, "Yells.  (Viserion growls.)"  And I don't hear "Gooooooooooooo!" - I hear "arggghhh".  

I also think it is a shout of frustation.