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Lady Fevre Dream

Rant and Rave Without Repercussion End of The World Edition [Spoilers]

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2 minutes ago, divica said:

If they were losing the war I can understand them wanting to make the others. However we need a much better explanation about how they went out of control and how they were made and how they replicate themselves.

See, that's the thing.  It's not the end of the world if that is the beginning of the others.  After all, the Children also supposedly broke the Arm of Dorne, right?  That's some serious magic.  Even if the Ds were right about the ORIGIN, doesn't mean any other detail matches.  It's not the end of the world if that is the origin.  I'm not looking for three year old quotes, though.  I don't expect The Citadel seems to have the show/book deviations over the years.  Does it?  I just hope if there are quotes that anyone knows of a direct yes or no or such, they tell us.

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Just now, Cas Stark said:

The worst thing is, based on the cast comments, we have many more deaths coming, and so those will be at the hands of Cersei, who should already be dead or a in a black cell since last season.  

I don t undesrtand how they want to sell the conflict with cersei. We will have several scorpions capable of killing dragons so that they are neutralized? 

Will she kidnap danny?

Because I heve absolutly no hype for a simple battle between them...

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Posted (edited)
7 minutes ago, divica said:

If they were losing the war I can understand them wanting to make the others. However we need a much better explanation about how they went out of control and how they were made and how they replicate themselves.

They made a Pact at the Isle of Faces, that's what the Children did to survive the war, before the First Men would end up destroying the forests of the Riverlands as well. And we can assume that the CotF revealed to the FM during the making of the Pact why they should preserve the weirwoods: because there are truth-seers (greenseers) living beneath the roots and all the memories of children and giants and already dead heroes go up into the tree, because the FM agreed to leave the forests as Children's territory and to never harm a weirwood again, in time worshiping the same trees. And then thousands of years later, while people never harmed forests, weirwoods and children ever again, they suddenly decide to make Others in the Heart of Winter, behind a curtain that withholds light from reaching into it? Nah. There isn't even evidence that the Others caused the Long Night. Some other cataclysm did that. The Others were just opportunistic about it.

Edited by sweetsunray

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4 minutes ago, Cas Stark said:

The worst thing is, based on the cast comments, we have many more deaths coming, and so those will be at the hands of Cersei, who should already be dead or a in a black cell since last season.  

Cersei should be hiding in the bowls of Casterly Rock by now.  Good Gawd, The Ice Woman Cometh. 

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1 minute ago, sweetsunray said:

They made a Pact at the Isle of Faces, that's what the Children did to survive the war, before the First Men would end up destroying the forests of the Riverlands as well. And we can assume that the CotF revealed to the FM during the making of the Pact why they should preserve the weirwoods: because there are truth-seers (greenseers) living beneath the roots and all the memories of children and giants and already dead heroes go up into the tree, because the FM agreed to leave the forests as Children's territory and to never harm a weirwood again, in time worshiping the same trees. And then thousands of years later, while people never harmed forests, weirwoods and children ever again, they suddenly decide to make Others in the Heart of Winter, behind a curtain that withholds light from reaching into it? Nah. 

I am not sure about the dates, but can t the pact have been made to fight the others?

Otherwise can t the have made the other because of the andal invasion?

 

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3 minutes ago, Dex drako said:

these are not 3rd wave feminist messages they are the twisted fun house versions of 3rd wave feminist messages you find on idiots spewing on red pill/misogynistic websites. what we're seeing is what a sexist male writer would think feminists would because they've never asked a real woman what they'd want to see. take sansa and how in the show she's a cold hearted Bitch that rejects her femininity and dresses in black leather, that not a feminist ideal, that is literally the "all feminist are anti male bitches" sexist stereotype

i call it Juvenal because its not based on factual understanding of feminism and its views. but instead you based you view on a gut feeling and propaganda made to discredit the movement.

It isn't juvenile to point out that a show has become saturated in gender identity politics it is just a valid observation,whether that is anyones cup of tea is down to personal preference. I think the vast majority of people are alligned with classic feminist ideals including myself to the point it becomes a moot point to suggest there should be an added emphasis on female roles or story arcs

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3 minutes ago, Lady Fevre Dream said:

Cersei should be hiding in the bowls of Casterly Rock by now.  Good Gawd, The Ice Woman Cometh. 

She has the most loyal sellswords! they are willing to fight against dragons...

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Just now, darksellsword said:

It isn't juvenile to point out that a show has become saturated in gender identity politics it is just a valid observation,whether that is anyones cup of tea is down to personal preference. I think the vast majority of people are alligned with classic feminist ideals including myself to the point it becomes a moot point to suggest there should be an added emphasis on female roles or story arcs

Another good exemple of the femenist agenda in the show is how yara was the best treated prisoner in the entire story. These days nothing bad can happen to women...

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1 hour ago, Cas Stark said:

FM are supposed to be great at stealth, so her showing up as a surprise is okay I guess, but it is unsatisfying because it feels so unearned, and it makes both Jon and Dany in the end superfluous to the battle against the dead.  All of Jons ranting about needing every man, nope, wrong.  Dany sacrificing her armies and a dragon, nope, wrong.  All they needed is a good FM to do the job.  It undercuts so much of the story that has been built up, only for the sake of a twist and Arya fan service.

And Bran. He’s just bait. 

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3 minutes ago, Lady Fevre Dream said:

See, that's the thing.  It's not the end of the world if that is the beginning of the others.  After all, the Children also supposedly broke the Arm of Dorne, right?  That's some serious magic.  Even if the Ds were right about the ORIGIN, doesn't mean any other detail matches.  It's not the end of the world if that is the origin.  I'm not looking for three year old quotes, though.  I don't expect The Citadel seems to have the show/book deviations over the years.  Does it?  I just hope if there are quotes that anyone knows of a direct yes or no or such, they tell us.

There's a legend that the greenseers of the Children called down the hammer of the waters, creating the Neck to be a swamp and the arm of Dorne to be broken, from a tower of Moat Cailin to stop men from advancing further.

1 - Children did not build buildings.

2 - Moat Cailin is made from basalt, which means the Neck was already a swamp before Moat Cailin was built, because that's the stone to use to build big on top of a swamp (see Aztecs building huge temples and their city Tenochtitlan in the middle of a lake). On top of it, it's built strategically on the one spot where crossing is easier.

3 - Moat Cailin stopped the advance of the Andals in conquering the North, and they lost huge numbers trying. They hated Children and the FIrst Men who allied with the Children (both fought together against Andals at High Hill). And the Andals know absolute shit about magic.

4 - Crannogmen are little, faithful to Kings of Winter, and they have their own "magic" to shift mudbanks and water and castles. What is the chance that Andals would call these "Greenseers".

5 - If greenseers had that power, they would have done it when the First Men had not taken a step beyond Dorne, instead of allowing them to hack down hundreds of weirwoods (the equivalent of several libararies of Alexandria) and die for centuries with inadequate dragonglass. They would not wait until people reached the Neck, and for some weird reason left the forests of the Riverlands alone.

Most logical conclusion: Andals were mad as shit over their defeat, and they inserted it to distort history. Meanwhile the Northerners and the crannogmen didn't counter the tale, because it was in their own interest that their enemy to the South would believe such nonsense.

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Posted (edited)

Setting aside the awful stupidity of last night’s episode and thinking about the next 3... it looks bleak. Seriously bleak. The writers don’t care about developing the characters or putting together a coherent story. And even if they decided to do just that for the final stretch, well, too little, way too fucking late. So, we’re going to have roughly 4 1/2 hours of... what? Is it going to be 3 hours of mind-numbing drivel full of bad cock jokes (and just bad jokes in general), lots of snark and stares and glares, and 1 1/2 hour of mind-numbing battle scenes? Can we at least expect the battle to be in KL and happening in daytime, so we can at least see something? Yeah, nothing to look forward to... 

Edited by kissdbyfire

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The only thing I liked was Jaime and Brienne fighting together and saving each other. I guess Podrick's song protected all present with magical armor.

Bad: Torment is still alive to sexually harass uninterested parties.

WHY IS EVERYTHING SO DARK?!? Do they think this is artful? Interesting? Popular? In any way enteraining?

Like Assassin's Creed movie, it took away 70% of my enjoyment; and since this episode is just bad...

A whole episode of nothing but a battle is just boring, especially since you can't see anything.

I never liked Jon Snow, but with all this build up of his character I expected him to kill the Night King at least!

Nope, it's Arya, who swallowed so many other charaters, that now she's suffering from multiple personality disorder. Fighting with a stick made her proficient in all kinds of weapons, washing dead bodies made her run faster than light, and killing a woman in a dark room made her completely invisible. Apparently.

Melisandre emerging from nothing - it's good to know some of Littlefinger's teleportation devices are still working. Yay!

Another episode without Carol, but God, there will so much of her later. How is she the big bad wolf again? I blame DD creepy obessession with Lena Heady.

Bran is only good for unsettling people.

A POV character Theon is dead, but Torment is not? Bloody hell.

An experienced battle commander like Jaime Lannister is fighting as a foot soldier, but Jon & Dany are in charge. And suck at it. And lost in the wind. Somehow.

Okay, I'll stop, but it's just a tip...

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Posted (edited)

This episode was a total disappointment. They are not even trying, NOTHING MAKES SENSE. 70 episodes of construction, for THIS??? Jon's arch? What happened to Jon's arch? I don't know what it was and what it is now.  Bran's one? Even less. All the building up of the 3ER since the first season, all the training, just to have him sit there and be of no use. "When they come, you'll be ready" said Benjen to him. Ready for WHAT? What has he done actually? Oh, yes, I forgot, he gave Arya the dagger to kill the NK. Did he need that much training and warging and greenseeing for that? 
The battle was the worst of all battles in this show. Whose idea was that cavalry charge? They managed to make a moron even from Ghost, who was always the most intelligent of all the direwolves. And now here he was, charging to the dark like an authentic idiot.
Some things were so stupid that were actually hilarious. I get it, they tried to make us "feel" what the characters were experiencing, they couldn't see a thing, so we couldn't either. That was the idea? I feel sorry for the poor actors and crew and extras that commented on how hard were the 52 days filming at night, with all the mud and everything. So much suffering for this ... it's really sad.
I began laughing histerically with the dragon crash in the blizzard, and then again when a frustrated Jon stood tall in front of Viserion, WTH was he going to do? Yell at him "LET ME PASS!!"?  But praised be the old gods and the new, and everlasting gratitude to R'allor, because he made that the NK forgot to tell Viserion to keep an eye on Arya. Also because R'allor, in his immense wisdom, brought Berick back  countless times, because he would be needed to save Arya! Too bad that Ayra needs saving, or not, at the whim of people who have no idea what they are doing, they could have saved some cast money by simply making Arya invisible to the dead a while before, why wait until the Godswood scene?
And Sansa, WTF... at least they could have written her trying to comfort the people down there, and avoid that questioning of "your dragon queen" in that moment, when at least the dragon queen was actually fighting the dead (not very succesfully, but trying) and she was hidden down there. 

I can confidently predict a worse ending than Lost, they already managed to ruin a show that should have been great. Only 3 more ep to go, and then we can forget this forever. 
And to paraphrase a character, if I ever think of watching a show in which one of the Ds has something to do, please punch me in the face.

Edition: Did they really called this episode The Long Night??? Are they mocking us? The Long Night that "lasted a generation" became the "Most Short of Nights", this is joke

 

Edited by LucyMormont

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1 hour ago, darksellsword said:

David Benioff is on the behind the scenes video saying Dickon is Samwell Tarleys older brother for petes sake. That is how out of their depth these clowns are. I wouldn't be surprised if they have been reading all the criticism for years and are now tanking the show on purpose to piss off all of us book purests. They have their status now as Hollywood producers and screenwriters what do they care.

The Ghost stuff in the last two episodes smells like this.

8.02 "Oh, you're upset we parked Ghost for a season, are you? Here's your Ghost, slapped on like a bumper sticker on this battlement scene! That's the thing about Ghost, he's so quiet no one even knows he's there!"

8.03 "Run free with the Dothraki, Ghost! Because screw you - we never liked you anyway! No one will know what happened because WE'RE calling the shots here and that's hilarious!"

I've never been able to stomach the Inside The Episode segments, but I'm beginning to think these guys are deliberately being dicks in some instances.

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Posted (edited)
32 minutes ago, divica said:

I am not sure about the dates, but can t the pact have been made to fight the others?

Otherwise can t the have made the other because of the andal invasion?

 

On one: no. The pact is the start of the Age of Heroes and the survival of the Riverlands forests just north of the Isle of Faces and High Hill etc for thousand of years before the arrival of Andals heavily indicates that the First Men had only managed to colonise Dorne, the Reach, Crown- and Stormlands and the Westerlands, but that the Riverlands and the Trident was the trenchline so to speak. By the time the Others show up, First Men has spread as far as the Land of Always Winter and petty kingdoms were already in the making, and there was peace already between FM and Children for thousand of years. Now while there was peace, they were not allied races yet. The alliance between Children and FM was only established by the efforts of the Last Hero seeking their assistance, and they agreed.

On two: no, as the Long NIght predates the Andal invasion by several thousands of years. Since the Long Night was what forged an alliance between Children and FM, and both were allies agains the Andals, the Long Night predates the Andals.

ETA: based on the evidence I and others have gathered on this subject, I could support the following scenario... FM and Children warred, and desperate and accepting they could not defeat FM they made a pact, sharing in their greenseer and weirwood and skinchanger secrets, and giving the majority of lands (plains) except for forests to the FM. There is peace and FM keep conquering and migrating as far as the territories where the Others tend to reside. They kept mum over their existence and how they were vulnerable, because you can make peace with an enemy but choose not to be an ally, and think "if you wanna continue what you're doing and end up in deep shit, it ain't my problem". Meanwhile, due to plate tectonics and shifting of lands across generations you have alterations which were much later called the hammer of the waters, but anyway, neither FM nor Children were bothered by it or even rather unaware of it, because these things are not visible a change in a day. Then an enormous cataclysm occurs putting the light out globally, and the Others having enough of the First Men as their new neighbours go hunting. The Children intended to wait it out and just protect their own. For the first time too Others have unprecedented numbers of people to turn into an army of the dead. The Last Hero showed up and reasoned with the Children to become allies, and they did.

Edited by sweetsunray

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2 minutes ago, kissdbyfire said:

Setting aside the awfulness stupidity of last night’s episode and thinking about the next 3... it looks bleak. Seriously bleak. The writers don’t care about developing the characters or putting together a coherent story. And even if they decided to do just that for the final stretch, well, too little, way too fucking late. So, we’re going to have roughly 4 1/2 hours of... what? Is it going to be 3 hours of mind-numbing drivel full of bad cock jokes (and just bad jokes in general), lots of snark and stares and glares, and 1 1/2 hour of mind-numbing battle scenes? Can we at least expect the battle to be in KL and happening in daytime, so we can at least see something? Yeah, nothing to look forward to... 

I think they fucked up now. There isn t much hype to see the conflict with cersei… And if it all ends up being a simple battle then GOT is even more ruined than it is now.

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1 minute ago, MarkPierre said:

The only thing I liked was Jaime and Brienne fighting together and saving each other. I guess Podrick's song protected all present with magical armor.

Bad: Torment is still alive to sexually harass uninterested parties.

WHY IS EVERYTHING SO DARK?!? Do they think this is artful? Interesting? Popular? In any way enteraining?

Like Assassin's Creed movie, it took away 70% of my enjoyment; and since this episode is just bad...

A whole episode of nothing but a battle is just boring, especially since you can't see anything.

I never liked Jon Snow, but with all this build up of his character I expected him to kill the Night King at least!

Nope, it's Arya, who swallowed so many other charaters, that now she's suffering from multiple personality disorder. Fighting with a stick made her proficient in all kinds of weapons, washing dead bodies made her run faster than light, and killing a woman in a dark room made her completely invisible. Apparently.

Melisandre emerging from nothing - it's good to know some of Littlefinger's teleportation devices are still working. Yay!

Another episode without Carol, but God, there will so much of her later. How is she the big bad wolf again? I blame DD creepy obessession with Lena Heady.

Bran is only good for unsettling people.

A POV character Theon is dead, but Torment is not? Bloody hell.

An experienced battle commander like Jaime Lannister is fighting as a foot soldier, but Jon & Dany are in charge. And suck at it. And lost in the wind. Somehow.

Okay, I'll stop, but it's just a tip...

:agree:It's like you took all of that directly from my brain, add to that Jon riding a dragon once and deciding that is what he should be doing during the biggest battle of his life ignoring all of his life experience as a commander and supposedly one of the best swordsmen in the seven kingdoms. There would be better odds on Dany using both dragons to great affect than Jon could as a novice rider. I can't be the only one that thinks Cersei should've died ages ago. Lena heady is a great actress and she did a great job as Cersei but they bled every ounce of relevance and interest out of the character years ago but yeah more badass Carol and Larry adventures inbound. I dread to think what will happen in the finale.

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7 minutes ago, divica said:

I think they fucked up now. There isn t much hype to see the conflict with cersei… And if it all ends up being a simple battle then GOT is even more ruined than it is now.

I think it's ruined, I don't see how 3+ hours of Lena drinking wine and blabbing to Qyborn and Euron, and somehow, yet again, killing her enemies is anything worth even watching.  The story that has been building for 8 years of the magical, unstoppable force of the WW was over in the blink of eye without any magic employed at all.  That is only surprising in its stupidity.  What can happen?  Cersei kills a dragon? Cersei kills Arya?  Cersei kills Sansa?  Cersei kills Jon or Dany?  Cersei should already be dead or in prison.

We've got Cleganebowl, the Bronn showdown, another battle?  And then, epilogue.  Dany and her baby bump, a great council.  Who cares?  The whole story it turns out was as pointless as the War of the Roses, pointless killing and death for no reason except personal greed and BS.

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I'm just not looking forward to these final three episodes at all. They really can't think anyone is looking forward to three episodes of Cersei shenanigans. It just goes against everything the story is about. Cersei now looks completely brilliant and everyone else is Ned. She told him in the game of thrones you win or you die and she's still 100% right apparently. Tyrion tried to convince Dany not to care about the throne so much and break the wheel or whatever but no, apparently capturing the throne is the only thing that matters.

The smart thing would have been to move as many people south as possible while Daenerys rallies support for her claim in Dorne and stays comfortably to the south of Cersei so Cersei is the one who has to deal with the Night King. Or heck, just take Cersei out when you have the chance. But they're all Neds, so they do the "right thing" and then in the end it turns out none of those dragons or armies were even necessary. The desert-born Dothraki were totally destroyed by their love of their dragon queen, following her on wooden horses across the scary seas to a land of winter and then they died in less than a minute. That's just terrible, and worse still, the sacrifice isn't going to stop the sniping and backbiting against Daenerys anyway since few will know of it.

And whose strategy was this battle? Jon's? He always has the worst battle plans. It's funny D&D say that Jon killing the Night King would be too cliche even though Arya is literally the only other person allowed significant kills on this show. 

So why bring Jon back from the dead and all of this? For his good looks? Maybe that's it, since he used them convince the dragon queen to give him her armies and all of that dragonglass. Even though the Night King wasn't defeated or even hindered by any of that. What purpose can Jon serve from now on other than to add to the stupid "game of thrones" drama? He's useless in Kings Landing, useless against Cersei, not even a good battle tactician, and in the end did zip to save the north. If he'd never come back, Arya would still have been there and still could have stopped the Night King the exact same way. Argh.

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