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Rant and Rave Without Repercussion End of The World Edition [Spoilers]

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2 minutes ago, Ygrain said:

'Read only that LOTR ripoff, if that's what you mean, butit does suddenly seem very logical and imaginative...

Well, the books are amazing. I mean, compared to the TV show they are... :D

 

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7 minutes ago, Ygrain said:

I hope they have something more up their sleeve because this would be an epic fail.

I wish they had something else up their sleeves, but once 789,653 times bitten, so... :dunno:

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9 minutes ago, kissdbyfire said:

All very good picks, but I’d add Theon’s suicide as well. I mean, he’s right there w/ all-seeing all-knowing BranBot, who definitely knows Arya Ahai is coming. But he says fuck all, and let’s Theon charge the NK because... because? I guess it’s because they had to give us at least a couple of major-ish deaths, after claiming that the stakes were oh so high, and anyone can die booo. 

Yes, I can see what you mean. I was so glad that Theon was out that I wasn’t too bothered by the fact that he too charged into his own death. 

9 minutes ago, Cas Stark said:

Dothraki suicide charge definitely is the worst thing they did in the episode, but they did so much destruction in a single bound, it's hard to say.  Jon Snow's entire story has been eviscerated, he has been thinking, planning, and blabbing nonstop for 3 or 4 seasons about the NK, and it turns out, he was completely useless and so was his secret Targ blood and every other person in WF not named Arya Stark or one of the dudes who saved her, so that's Arya, Beric, Hound and we can add in Mel for the pep talk.  Everyone else totally useless.

Dragonfire not killing NK was stupid, because it's impossible that dragonglass and valyrian steel would harm the WW and actual dragons do not even singe his clothing.  Impossible.  

I didn't care about Lyanna  Mormont I was sick of her sass talk and am glad she's dead now.  They over did that way too much.

**Bri has to live until Jamie dies in her arms, I think.  Otherwise she is  just alive because she's popular, same reason Tormund is still alive, there may have been a wildling army there, I couldn't see it was too dark, but I'm not sure where it would have come from? So, he's just a random tall guy who tells jokes.

I think, I am not sure, but I think this episode was worse and dumber than the wight hunt. 

 

To me this episode was by far the worst and it topped Cersei’s crowning after she blew up the sept. Up until now I had thought that was as bad as it gets. I was clearly wrong. 

Yeah, Jon did absolutely nothing. Did he even use dragonfire? He almost got Rhaegal killed. Oh and by the by. Viserion had no purpose at all either. Back when this atrocious ice dragon accident happened, I had hoped that Viserion would be important. In the sense that the night king wouldn’t just fall from him and he wouldn’t just go around shooting fire at Jon in the courtyard as if Jon was trying to snatch his golden egg or something. I had hoped that maybe he would take out Rhaegal to make Daenerys’s situation more difficult. Or that he would be protecting the night king. Nope, neither. His death didn’t impact Daenerys as a person, it didn’t impact her relationship with Jon, it didn’t impact the battle, he was kinda just there. I guess the purpose of this ice dragon thing was just the “cool” factor and the wall destruction visuals too.

As for Lyanna Mormont, I’m not bothered by seeing the last of her at all. She was terribly annoying, completely unrealistic and a horrible message, I am absolutely delighted to be rid of her. What I was bothered by is the principal of allowing this child to stay out in the open, witness the massacre and risk being brutally killed. Because.... she is “sassy” and she “insisted”? She is a freaking child. Did none of these war seasoned grownups who knew exactly what was coming took the responsibility to say Shut your mouth, my child, you are 10 and you are going to the crypts. Nope they were just fine with a child walking around in the middle of a massacre because she wanted to. Ugh. 

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B&W have spent the last few seasons throwing every established bit of world-building out the window. The verisimilitude that GRRM strives for has long been abandoned. 10 year old girls fighting in battles is absurd, but the whole show feels like some badly written video game these days, so... 

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Posted (edited)

Long time lurker, first time poster (for the show).  Had to come in and agree with what everybody's saying.  It would actually be difficult to do a worse job writing this episode.  It's a shame, because the CG was great, the music was enjoyable, the suspense and cinematography were decent...there was a lot right with it.  If you just wanted to mow down on some popcorn and watch something mindless, it worked.

 

That isn't what any of us wanted though.  The Dothraki -as everybody has mentioned- were wasted in the most idiotic way.  Where were the Parthian tactics we'd seen from previous seasons?  They're supposed to be an homage to the real world Mongols for God's sake.  You're telling me they don't know about horseback archery?  Again, it's a shame, because the visual impact of all the lights going out was chilling, but it was prefaced by something so nonsensical that it didn't land the way it should have.

 

Not manning the walls and placing the army outside was another confusing element.  When they mentioned that part of the plan in ep 2 , I kept hoping ot was a throwaway line and wasnt the actual plan for the battle.  Boy was I wrong.

 

Also, why the hell would you put your trebuchets IN FRONT of your army?  I saw full blown tactical breakdowns from fans leading up to this episode that made way more sense.

 

The only thing I disagree with that I'm seeing here a lot is that nobody but Arya had an impact on the battle.  I think what they were going for was:

 

Dany - brought the dragons and half the army

Jon - got the NK out of the air

Bran - he warged the ravens to lure the NK to the godswood.  The NK had seen him in this way before, so my guess is that was the purpose of the whole "I'm going now" moment.

Arya - obvious

Melisandre - gives a pep talk?

Hound & Beric - get Arya to the goal line

Theon - keeps Bran alive until the NK arrives.

 

So technically, everybody did something...it's just all stupid.  Every contribution is relatively insignificant and a huge stretch.

 

Also, for the dragonfire vs valerian steel confusion, apparently D&D said the dagger only worked because it hit the NK in his old Dragonglass wound.  My guess for their reasoning is that the dragon fire didn't get deep enough into the wound to kill.

 

Again, ridiculous, but it's the only explanation we have now.  Here's hoping George picks up the pace.

Edited by Wingednosering

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One more thing and I’ll stop, I promise. 

Why in the world do they think that taking season 1-2 quotes and altering their context passes off as writing? I get that they would base the entire season on Lotr and I get that they would copy and paste dragon visuals from Avatar and Harry Potter. But they even take their exact lines from elsewhere. What level of pathetic is that? It’s basically admitting that they are unable to write a single original page of script. Is this supposed to be creative or epic or emotional? 

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I hope that history will eventually take note that the show, GOT, became every tired cliche and troped up fantasy trope that it originally, when it was still an adaptation, strove to subvert.  

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5 minutes ago, Wingednosering said:

Bran - he warged the ravens to lure the NK to the godswood.  The NK had seen him in this way before, so my guess is that was the purpose of the whole "I'm going now" moment.

In the previous episode Bran told everyone that the NK always knows where he was due to the mark on his arm.

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3 minutes ago, RhaenysBee said:

One more thing and I’ll stop, I promise. 

Why in the world do they think that taking season 1-2 quotes and altering their context passes off as writing? I get that they would base the entire season on Lotr and I get that they would copy and paste dragon visuals from Avatar and Harry Potter. But they even take their exact lines from elsewhere. What level of pathetic is that? It’s basically admitting that they are unable to write a single original page of script. Is this supposed to be creative or epic or emotional? 

Yes, that is exactly what they admit, only so few people realize that about 90% of the best lines and best scenes came from the books.  Other than chaos is a ladder, I can't even think of any memorable lines at all that the show came up with. Almost every line that Syrio ever spoke to Arya was a book line, all of Mel's good lines, from the book, Tyrion and Varys were witty and had good lines also, when there was still book dialogue to use. 

I'm not sure I have ever seen real, true, supremely mediocre talent land something this big, I'm sure it has happened before, but the showrunners are hacks, they just are, they have a talent of choosing good supporting people, casting, music, directors, but the story they have told, the writing they have delivered, the scripts, OMG, are full fledged hackery.

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Just now, Corvinus said:

 In the previous episode Bran told everyone that the NK always knows where he was due to the mark on his arm.

Now I wonder why Nighty didn't just fly over the Godswood and set it ablaze. I mean, Jon and Dany were flying far away burning wights. He was out of sight, they were oblivious. Just swoop down and blast the damn place. I mean, he summoned some kind of blizzardy thing this episode that sent J/D into chaos for a time. Why not get Bran then?

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2 minutes ago, Corvinus said:

In the previous episode Bran told everyone that the NK always knows where he was due to the mark on his arm.

That's a really good point.  I still feel like the ravens were a "Come get me" message, but you're right.  It makes my attempt at reasoning even more flimsy.

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22 hours ago, Cas Stark said:

Who wants that dumbass dead person as King?  What in the hell has he accomplished?  He was assassinated by his own men.  Then he's made King only to bend the knee to his lover.  Then he participates in the stupid as fuck wight hunt, getting a dragon killed and needing to be saved.  He hasn't won a battle in years. He's been blabbing about uniting the living when it turns out, all you need is a good assassin with a Valyrian steel dagger.   He was utterly useless in this battle.  

 

To give Jon "Know-Nothing" Snow his due, if not for him, the North (south of the Wall) would not have known of the advance of the army of the Dead until they'd gobbled up Last Hearth and were knocking on Winterfell's doors.  It was Jon who had the authority to act on Sam's knowledge of dragon glass and go to Dragonstone and gain not only tons of dragon glass but an ally with tons of cannon fodder troops and three dragons.  If not for Jon's warnings and setting up Winterfell as Campaign HQ and staging point, and bringing the North together for a last stand, Arya might well have been slaughtered in her sleep by wights in Winterfell before she even had a chance to get herself and her Valyrian steel dagger within striking distance of the Night's King.  So ol' Jon did have some use; though I will agree he wasn't exactly at his best in the Battle of Winterfell...

 

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9 minutes ago, Wingednosering said:

Long time lurker, first time poster (for the show).  Had to come in and agree with what everybody's saying.  It would actually be difficult to do a worse job writing this episode.  It's a shame, because the CG was great, the music was enjoyable, the suspense and cinematography were decent...there was a lot right with it.  If you just wanted to mow down on some popcorn and watch something mindless, it worked.<snip>

I agree with most of this post, and with a lot of the critiques of this episode, which really brought all of D&D's bad plot decisions home to roost.

But I left in this part because they really are excellent at everything involved with spectacle, the scene diagramming, the music, the choreography, the lighting, everything. Really masterful, and with all the money showered on these productions you won't see anything like it on TV for years.

Too bad the plotting was so dreadful. The first 4 seasons of this show were so great! If only GRRM had stayed out ahead of them and this show could've been based on HIS meticulous plotting from beginning to end!

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22 minutes ago, kissdbyfire said:

Well, the books are amazing. I mean, compared to the TV show they are... :D

 

They made that a TV show? Why would anyone want to do that? :dunno:

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One more thing: this is the second episode in a row that makes it seem like they composited Ghost into a couple shots after filming wrapped because they forgot about him.  They didn't even have a full walk cycle on him.  How he survived the suicide charge at the start and why Jon didn't care is just left for us to try not to think about.

 

The bit of the next episode's preview that shows him alive shows the exact same camera angle as episode 2's shot of him, which makes me think it'll be more of the same.

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Do guys remember the year when they put out the casting call for “the greatest swordsman”? We all knew it was for the role of Arthur Dayne...well it turns out it was for the stunt double of the role of Arthur dayne. D&D then gave that guy, the greatest swordsman the role of the NK...he only used his sword once! One time ever! To kill a comatose bloodraven. 

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2 minutes ago, Wingednosering said:

Long time lurker, first time poster (for the show).  [...] 

The only thing I disagree with that I'm seeing here a lot is that nobody but Arya had an impact on the battle.  I think what they were going for was:

 

Dany - brought the dragons and half the army

Jon - got the NK out of the air

Bran - he warged the ravens to lure the NK to the godswood.  The NK had seen him in this way before, so my guess is that was the purpose of the whole "I'm going now" moment.

Arya - obvious

Melisandre - gives a pep talk?

Hound & Beric - get Arya to the goal line

Theon - distracts the NK and keeps Bran alive until he can show up on his own.

 

So technically, everybody did something...it's just all stupid.  Every contribution is relatively insignificant and a huge stretch.

 

Also, for the dragonfire vs valerian steel confusion, apparently D&D said the dagger only worked because it hit the NK in his old Dragonglass wound.  My guess for their reasoning is that the dragon fire didn't get deep enough into the wound to kill.

 

Again, ridiculous, but it's the only explanation we have now.  Here's hoping George picks up the pace.

Welcome! 

As for contributions, the way I see it is this: 

daenerys - she did burn some (not nearly enough) zombies, attempted to take out the NK and got her hands dirty by taking out a few zombies herself as she fought with Jorah. She wasn’t going down without a fight, that was probably one of the two things I didn’t hate about the episode. 

Jon - big fat nothing. If I want to be generous, I could attribute Rhaegal and Viserion’s fight to him, but that’s a stretch. 

Bran- I honestly have no idea what Bran was doing and why. This would be what that thing called dialogue is for. 

Theon - he did defend Bran for a while and ran into a heroic death for the sake of being heroic, he probably had a good idea about how he would die in minutes and how that would buy Bran no time whatsoever. And no idea that time needed to be bought for any purpose. 

Hound and Beric- yes they did save Arya. (Which opens the whole unprogressive issue of why a badass like Arya would need saving... okay, I will shut up with this disgusting sarcasm) 

Melisandre - she was the real MVP if you ask me. It was her who did anything for the Dothraki, the most for Winterfell’s defense by appearing ex machina and lighting the trench, telling Arya what she had to do and giving her a pep talk. 

 

 

As for D&D’s NK death explanation, that’s the most pathetic excuse I have ever heard in my life. And you know, if I were invested in this enough and made some stills and photoshopped them together I could probably very clearly demonstrate that this explanation doesn’t hold up. 

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54 minutes ago, darmody said:

You're confusing jumping from dangerous heights oozing from mortal knife wounds with suddenly appearing mid-air out of nowhere. It's different. 

Yeah!  WolverArya could not yet cast transport spells in Braavos.  It's totally obvious she leveled-up at the Twins before heading north!  Duh!:rolleyes:

*I'm making fun of the show here, not you:P

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I have a question... what is worse, a pitch black episode where no one can see a damn thing and has virtually no dialogue, or a well-lit (hopefully?) episode where nothing happens and all we get is 90 mins of D&D’s “writing”? 

I think I prefer the former. But sadly we’re in for ~ 180 minutes of the latter. :bang:

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