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Rant and Rave Without Repercussion End of The World Edition [Spoilers]

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2 hours ago, Bear42 said:

It's really frustrating that all the criticism about Arya's character not deserving the Night King kill is being met with "you wouldn't say that if she was a man!"

 

After watching that same exact thing poison Star Wars fandom for years it's now spread to GOT.

 

I've also seen a lot of people scoff at the idea that Jon should've fought the NK by saying the NK is basically a god and would be unbeatable in a fight.  Yet the dude is killed by a teenager with a little slight of hand.  Turns out he was kind of a pushover.

I dunno about "deserve," but we never saw Arya learn 98% of the badassssssss stuff she can do, and she definitely should have died in Braavos. Also, she hasn't really been a character since she came back from Easteros. It's not just that she's not the old Arya I liked. She's nothing. A smirking psychopath who only occasionally has discernably human reactions to anything. 

Put that aside, however. How about some build-up? ANY build-up. Warping irrelevant dialogue from previous seasons doesn't count. How about linking the Faceless Men to the war against the dead and show Arya learning where to stab the Night King? Or just make it look like she actually cares about Bran and will do anything to protect him? Or give her an actual relationship with Melisandre apart from having looked into eachother's eyes once years ago?

Jon met the Night King twice before. They looked eachother in the eye. The Night King taunted him. We've seen Jon kill White Walkers, so we know he knows how. That's build-up. It's not hard. 

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21 minutes ago, darmody said:

That might be too gross for Game of Thrones. 

They will make the scene dark enough so we don't see anything disturbing.

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On ‎4‎/‎29‎/‎2019 at 3:55 PM, Ser Drewy said:

At all. I can't understand why they structured the season this way, or why anyone can possibly care about 3 hour-and-a-half episodes to deal with Cersei.

Because the WW's were an important literary device to propel the main story, which was always really about a "Game of Thrones".

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They all agreed to train everyone including the girls and the women to fight the great war but somehow Sansa managed to sidestep training and defending her people and went to cower with the small children and a genius level dwarf tactician and a eunuch who has refused to fight for some reason? great consistency there again by David and Dan.

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Do you guys think they will work on the ilumination of the ep for the blu ray version?

Because I saw an iluminated slow motion vídeo of the battle between rhaegal e viserion and actually they did hurt each other. Rhaegal even riped part of viserion's jaw. IT is a waste to not show these things….

Edited by divica

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7 hours ago, ramla said:

In every other film or show, lit oil is lit oil. Weather its one Fire Arrow or dragon flame. Its just they wanted to have the drama of it not working. Such an Average everyday trope like the car not starting when your being chased by Micheal Myers or something. Its ironic how adament they were in subverting expectations but used a million and one every day tropes thruout the episode. smh

Hey, I'm just trying to find some logic behind what was happening.  I mean hell there are times I try to start a fire in my backyard with fuel on it and the wind blows on the flame before it can catch.  

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My first post here in a long, long time, coming out of lurking because this specific episode bothered me due to many reasons most of which have been mentioned here in this thread already. One I did not see - or I may have just overlooked it, if so my apologies.

If you dig into the scene where Arya finishes off the Night King, there are a lot of things wrong with how that all comes about etc., but one thing bugged me in particular: If Bran is - in his dream/vision/warging - barely touched by the Night King and it hurts like hell, he barely gets away and is marked for life, how come the Night King can grab Arya by the throat like a chicken and choke the hell out of her - and she lives with no ill consequences for her at all?

If Arya kills the NK and would have been killed herself as a consequence of the attack, this scene would have at least made some sense dramaturgically, and essentially followed GRRM's pattern that no one is safe and things you do generally take a toll and have a price. That she walks away unscathed is pretty much very cliched fantasy with the hero always prevailing and riding happily off into the sunset. 

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1 hour ago, noiryt said:

If you dig into the scene where Arya finishes off the Night King, there are a lot of things wrong with how that all comes about etc., but one thing bugged me in particular: If Bran is - in his dream/vision/warging - barely touched by the Night King and it hurts like hell, he barely gets away and is marked for life, how come the Night King can grab Arya by the throat like a chicken and choke the hell out of her - and she lives with no ill consequences for her at all?

That is a fantastic point, staring us right in the face the whole time.

But maybe the rules are different in a dream/vision/warging scenario. If only we had some reason to think there's something special about the NK's touch outside of the weirwood channel.

[Insert iconic image of NK touching baby to create WW, copyright issues be darned.]

 

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It’s worth mentioning that Beric stopping the wights in the hall with his arms was super bad.

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3 hours ago, divica said:

Do you guys think they will work on the ilumination of the ep for the blu ray version?

Because I saw an iluminated slow motion vídeo of the battle between rhaegal e viserion and actually they did hurt each other. Rhaegal even riped part of viserion's jaw. IT is a waste to not show these things….

Link? 

On a rewatch I noticed that. you can even see the piece of Viserion's jaw falling, and also after that  Viserion went for Jon, who managed to lean forward and dodge the bite, so Viserion takes off the cloak instead of his head. It was just a glimpse (scene was dark and blurry), but from then on you see that Jon hasn't his furred cloak anymore. I'd like to see the whole sequence with better lighting. 

Nothing will redeem this episode, but at least we would be able to appreciate the effort of the CGI department

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5 hours ago, darmody said:

 Also, she hasn't really been a character since she came back from Easteros. It's not just that she's not the old Arya I liked. She's nothing. A smirking psychopath who only occasionally has discernably human reactions to anything. 

And not just her. Being a strong woman apparently equals to dropping supposedly hard-ass one-liners and generally being a bitch antagonising other people needlessly.

2 hours ago, One-Eyed Raven said:

But maybe the rules are different in a dream/vision/warging scenario. If only we had some reason to think there's something special about the NK's touch outside of the weirwood channel.

IMHO, you're right that touching Bran could be explained as on a spiritual/magic level. Touching the baby... the scene gave me a feeling that is was not just a physical touch but some magic going on, as well, so I am willing to forgive that one. 

Though, seeing Arya fail and freeze to death in his grip would be awesome. He would then bend over a seemingly helpless Bran and be hit by an obsidian blade that Bran had been hiding, with flashbacks to the ritual that had made him. 

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On 4/29/2019 at 10:25 AM, Elayis said:

The biggest letdown for me is knowing we still have three 80 minute episodes left with Cersei & Euron front and center. At least the White Walkers were visually interesting. These last few seasons were tolerable because we didn't know the endgame, but that we know where everything has been leading to all I feel is dread, not anticipation.

We just know this thing is going to disappoint a lot of people. Cersei as the endgame was a huge mistake, I think.

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On 4/29/2019 at 10:51 AM, kissdbyfire said:

So. We have three more episodes, and all three are 80-90 mins long, right? Why on earth do we need 3 long episodes now? Just to deal w/ Cersei? All the characters in the north can just have a bbq or a picnic, just send Arya to kill Cersei, UnGregor, Qyburn and Euron. Piece of cake for someone who took out a whole house single-handedly - and probably the largest house in terms of how many members it had, no less - and the NK and the WWs and ended the LN. What a joke. 

They're gonna drag that whole Cersei/Jaime/Tyrion/Lannister crap and Dany and Jon succession vs love drama. I used to joke about this, but I'm actually believing Jon is gonna marry Dany and they're going to rule together.

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8 hours ago, darmody said:

I dunno about "deserve," but we never saw Arya learn 98% of the badassssssss stuff she can do, and she definitely should have died in Braavos. Also, she hasn't really been a character since she came back from Easteros. It's not just that she's not the old Arya I liked. She's nothing. A smirking psychopath who only occasionally has discernably human reactions to anything. 

Put that aside, however. How about some build-up? ANY build-up. Warping irrelevant dialogue from previous seasons doesn't count. How about linking the Faceless Men to the war against the dead and show Arya learning where to stab the Night King? Or just make it look like she actually cares about Bran and will do anything to protect him? Or give her an actual relationship with Melisandre apart from having looked into eachother's eyes once years ago?

Jon met the Night King twice before. They looked eachother in the eye. The Night King taunted him. We've seen Jon kill White Walkers, so we know he knows how. That's build-up. It's not hard. 

:agree: Bran telling all of them about the NK's creation so everyone knows his weakness for a start.  A lucky hit is a little daft.

7 hours ago, divica said:

Do you guys think they will work on the ilumination of the ep for the blu ray version?

Because I saw an iluminated slow motion vídeo of the battle between rhaegal e viserion and actually they did hurt each other. Rhaegal even riped part of viserion's jaw. IT is a waste to not show these things….

I altered the brightness and contrast on my TV before I watched the ep and I saw those things (although really had to concentrate on the scene to see it).  You're right, they should have adjusted it so we could enjoy these things properly - as one of the few things that were enjoyable in this ep, IMO.

6 hours ago, noiryt said:

My first post here in a long, long time, coming out of lurking because this specific episode bothered me due to many reasons most of which have been mentioned here in this thread already. One I did not see - or I may have just overlooked it, if so my apologies.

If you dig into the scene where Arya finishes off the Night King, there are a lot of things wrong with how that all comes about etc., but one thing bugged me in particular: If Bran is - in his dream/vision/warging - barely touched by the Night King and it hurts like hell, he barely gets away and is marked for life, how come the Night King can grab Arya by the throat like a chicken and choke the hell out of her - and she lives with no ill consequences for her at all?

If Arya kills the NK and would have been killed herself as a consequence of the attack, this scene would have at least made some sense dramaturgically, and essentially followed GRRM's pattern that no one is safe and things you do generally take a toll and have a price. That she walks away unscathed is pretty much very cliched fantasy with the hero always prevailing and riding happily off into the sunset. 

Good point.

2 hours ago, Ygrain said:

And not just her. Being a strong woman apparently equals to dropping supposedly hard-ass one-liners and generally being a bitch antagonising other people needlessly.

IMHO, you're right that touching Bran could be explained as on a spiritual/magic level. Touching the baby... the scene gave me a feeling that is was not just a physical touch but some magic going on, as well, so I am willing to forgive that one. 

Though, seeing Arya fail and freeze to death in his grip would be awesome. He would then bend over a seemingly helpless Bran and be hit by an obsidian blade that Bran had been hiding, with flashbacks to the ritual that had made him. 

So preferable.

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6 hours ago, noiryt said:

My first post here in a long, long time, coming out of lurking because this specific episode bothered me due to many reasons most of which have been mentioned here in this thread already. One I did not see - or I may have just overlooked it, if so my apologies.

If you dig into the scene where Arya finishes off the Night King, there are a lot of things wrong with how that all comes about etc., but one thing bugged me in particular: If Bran is - in his dream/vision/warging - barely touched by the Night King and it hurts like hell, he barely gets away and is marked for life, how come the Night King can grab Arya by the throat like a chicken and choke the hell out of her - and she lives with no ill consequences for her at all?

If Arya kills the NK and would have been killed herself as a consequence of the attack, this scene would have at least made some sense dramaturgically, and essentially followed GRRM's pattern that no one is safe and things you do generally take a toll and have a price. That she walks away unscathed is pretty much very cliched fantasy with the hero always prevailing and riding happily off into the sunset. 

None of us know how Night King touching works, because the show didn't tell us. But Arya should at least have frostbite on her neck, or some kind of lasting injury. 

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5 hours ago, LucyMormont said:

Link? 

On a rewatch I noticed that. you can even see the piece of Viserion's jaw falling, and also after that  Viserion went for Jon, who managed to lean forward and dodge the bite, so Viserion takes off the cloak instead of his head. It was just a glimpse (scene was dark and blurry), but from then on you see that Jon hasn't his furred cloak anymore. I'd like to see the whole sequence with better lighting. 

Nothing will redeem this episode, but at least we would be able to appreciate the effort of the CGI department

It is pretty cool. 

It would be even better if Jon and rhaegal had finished viserion after the NK is thrown away... No idea why it didn t happen

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28 minutes ago, Ser Quork said:

Okay, this did make me laugh - especially as I loathed this scene too.

 

ROFLMAO, I hope someone mails this to the accused :D

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13 hours ago, Pinn said:

Because the WW's were an important literary device to propel the main story, which was always really about a "Game of Thrones".

You literally have this backwards. The whole point was that "the Game of Thrones means nothing and while we all sit around here fighting over who sits in a chair there are undead coming to kill us all."

 

The First book in a Song of Ice and Fire is called "A Game of Thrones" but it was never suppose to stay the main focus in the story. If it was then D&D have really butchered this story beyond repair.

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12 hours ago, noiryt said:

My first post here in a long, long time, coming out of lurking because this specific episode bothered me due to many reasons most of which have been mentioned here in this thread already. One I did not see - or I may have just overlooked it, if so my apologies.

If you dig into the scene where Arya finishes off the Night King, there are a lot of things wrong with how that all comes about etc., but one thing bugged me in particular: If Bran is - in his dream/vision/warging - barely touched by the Night King and it hurts like hell, he barely gets away and is marked for life, how come the Night King can grab Arya by the throat like a chicken and choke the hell out of her - and she lives with no ill consequences for her at all?

If Arya kills the NK and would have been killed herself as a consequence of the attack, this scene would have at least made some sense dramaturgically, and essentially followed GRRM's pattern that no one is safe and things you do generally take a toll and have a price. That she walks away unscathed is pretty much very cliched fantasy with the hero always prevailing and riding happily off into the sunset. 

The fact none of us even thought to ask this question tells you how the dumbing down of the story has gotten to us all.  The logical fallacies come so fast and furious that most of us get stuck in the muck twelves layers higher than you were willing to dig down.  

That said, it is utter nonsense that the Night King's touch had absolutely no affect whatsoever on Wolverine, but then again the adamantium skeleton apparently now also applies to the skin.

5 hours ago, darmody said:

None of us know how Night King touching works, because the show didn't tell us. But Arya should at least have frostbite on her neck, or some kind of lasting injury. 

Yes, she should have dropped after the kill clutching her neck and having troubles breathing at the very least.

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