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Rant and Rave Without Repercussion End of The World Edition [Spoilers]

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3 hours ago, Neddy's Girl said:

The more I read (these discussions), the more sure I am that the show is not spoiling the novels for me :D

Indeed. The show is not even spoiling the show that used to be, that's been forgotten. They are writing for themselves, and it shows.

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Heres my list of grieviences:

1) the Dothraki and Unsullied essentially wiped out - used a fodder to protect Westerosi folk? 

 

2) I expected something more poetic and I expected a fight sequence with atleast 1 WW a la Hardome. I mean we are led to believe that these guys are so badass but not 1 lifted a sword.

3) Im not too bummed about Arya finishing the NK but kinda feel like what was the point of Jons storyline: Lyanna Stark-Rhaegar union, Azor ahai and tptwp - it all seems for nothing

4) the suddeness and unexpected way in which the NK got taken out leads us to believe that the endgame (haha, see what I did there?) Is infact the IT and Cercei - when the storytelling has been to push that the NK & co was the bigger threat

5) For a show & book that kills off major characters without hesitation, too many of the main characters survived this. 

6) the whole NKs aim is wanting Bran was too rushed for me. In the last episode we were just told that this is his aim instead of been shown it. It feels a little superficial and audiences arent stupid.

 

 

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3 minutes ago, Le Cygne said:

Indeed. The show is not even spoiling the show that used to be, that's been forgotten. They are writing for themselves, and it shows.

novels? what novels? is this show based on a book? weird!

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And one other thing...

So undead Wun-Wun's attack strategy is basically battering ram everyone into oblivion, until he runs into the Sweetheart of the North, Lyanna Mormont. Then his strategy is pick her up (crushing her based on the sound effects) and eat her??? I guess all that killing makes an undead giant hungry. Or was he bringing her up close, so he could whisper something in her ear before he flung her over the castle walls?

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What a mixed bag of an episode.

On the one hand I did like the action. Switching ones brain off and asking no questions certainly will boost the overall enjoyment of this feature length battle. Outside of the awful lighting you can't fault the visuals and action. but I suppose struggling to see certainly is a major flaw, so...there is that.

 

I'd given up on plot a long time ago and was looking forward to this season, cause it was all about the action. This episode started out strong, but it soon started to suffer.  An overall lack of death seems to be a major issue. Characters dying doesn't automatically make for a good episode, but when death is at the door, you certainly expect people to die. Brienne, Gilly, Davos, Varys, Tormund, Pod, Sam and Greyworm all could've gotten the chop. I mean some of these characters have been twiddling their thumbs for a while now and have had nothing to do. I'm not saying they all should've died, but when was the last time Varys did anything?

 

The logistics of Arya's NK assassination aside, I must thank Melisande for the not so subtle reminder of the prophecy that Arya will kill "blue eyes". Talk about spoilers. Anyway for those wondering about how she got past all the WWs, I saw someone make an excellent point: The episode was so dark, not even the WWs could see Arya coming.

Melisandre's death...ok? Bye.

Theon's death. I don't understand how people can write scenes like that. All they had to was have the WWs attack him and it wouldn't have felt like he could've lived.

The distinct lack of people in the hallways of Winterfell. Would it have been so hard to have a few people running down corridors and fighting in the background?

Can Bran please do something? He's so useless and weird, they should've just killed him.

 

Those are my main issues. I am interested to see how the last 3 episodes play out. I don't think the finale is gonna be Cersei against the rest. Missandei and Greyworm said they wanted to return to Essos and Jorah just died. So Danerys seemingly has 0 people who want her on the Throne, so it will be interesting to see how that develops.

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Razha said:

So  I guess according to D&D the entire Rhaegar  + Lyanna, PTWP story was just meaningless waste of time?

Rhaegar  was just an idiot in love, and his affair with Lyanna just serves as a setup for Jon/Dany conflict  and has nothing to do with the others ?

I honestly believe that they realised that some readers & viewers sensed who TPTWP was and decided to change the story line half way - and its showing that its not well thought out.

Edited by MoonKnight21

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Did Bran just want a good view of the battle, what was the point of him warging into a raven and then just flying to the roof only to come back with nothing achieved at all?

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Posted (edited)

What a complete letdown! As others have said, 8 seasons of build up for the NK and army of the dead for nothing. No payoff at all just Arya the "badass bitch". No flaming sword created by plunging into the heart of Nissa Nissa, no Bran powers finally revealed and unleashed, no sort of reveal of who the NK was, no NK flying south to KL while part of his army attacks WF, no teamwork to take down the white walkers and whittle down their portion of the army of undead. DAMN! The fight with the dead should have spanned 2 episodes. There was so much cool shit to explore there.

I know people cheered when Arya killed the NK but her character has been dead (to me anyway) since her season 6 stroll through Braavos. She's been a smug little goblin, devoid of any of the qualities that made her my favorite character for 5 seasons before that. I am so disappointed in this show right now. Last night, as soon as she left Mel and The Hound, I got the sinking feeling she was going to be the one who killed the NK. My fears were realized in the most cringey and hackey way.  

This is kind of therapeutic to put my disappointment into words. Thanks.

Edited by Ordee

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5 hours ago, of man and wolf said:

even if the NK couldnt die by fire, why couldnt you just have drogon swoop down after and just like crush him in his jaws or something?

That;s an interesting point, it certainly would have been worth a try.  Maybe the dragons had already had it with all the snow tornadoes?  They didn't dare try the ultimate Ice Pop, NK.  Hey, hahaha,, that works in more ways than one, if you think about it.  The NK was the Pop of all the Ice, and a possibly snack that the dragons thought might just be a bit too cold to try. 

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3 minutes ago, MoonKnight21 said:

Heres my list of grieviences:

1) the Dothraki and Unsullied essentially wiped out - used a fodder to protect Westerosi folk? 

 

2) I expected something more poetic and I expected a fight sequence with atleast 1 WW a la Hardome. I mean we are led to believe that these guys are so badass but not 1 lifted a sword.

3) Im not too bummed about Arya finishing the NK but kinda feel like what was the point of Jons storyline: Lyanna Stark-Rhaegar union, Azor ahai and tptwp - it all seems for nothing

4) the suddeness and unexpected way in which the NK got taken out leads us to believe that the endgame (haha, see what I did there?) Is infact the IT and Cercei - when the storytelling has been to push that the NK & co was the bigger threat

5) For a show & book that kills off major characters without hesitation, too many of the main characters survived this. 

6) the whole NKs aim is wanting Bran was too rushed for me. In the last episode we were just told that this is his aim instead of been shown it. It feels a little superficial and audiences arent stupid.

 

 

Kind of leads one to ask if the NK was only after Bran? would he have been happy to stop at Winterfell after he had got Bran? Is Bran secretly a villain having set all these people up to protect him, and him alone, if the NK was after Bran and only Bran. It may have saved thousands of lives if they had of just dropped bran off up beyond the wall to appease the NK! the thing is, and I actually like Bran, that the way this show has been presented to us then sacrificing Bran makes a lot if sense, but only because we have no idea what the NKs true motivation is and though I am being a little Ironic in suggesting to just give Bran up, but a hell of a lot of people died unnecessarily if the NK just wanted Bran, which is how it was made to look by the NKs actions in this episode. In short, it was bad storytelling, presented impressively with a really feel good climax, that leaves one extremely unfulfilled when all the plot holes and unanswered questions springs to mind. This show, man, it really could have been something spectacular, it started that way, it had the potential, and yet this is what it evolved into . such a damn shame

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1 hour ago, Coffeewiththegods said:

What in the world did I just witness? It was so laughable at the end. Jon’s plan being to just yell at the undead dragon. 

Well, Jon is Dragonborn. Maybe he was trying to use the Thu'um.

 

At this point, no stupid thing D&D could come up with would surprise me.

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2 hours ago, Faera said:

Late to the rant and rave but... yeah.

This episode started strong but by the end was just stupid. I've yet to formulate thoughts beyond cringing.

Actually, that's kind of how I feel.  I'm having a hard time because, honestly, I'm shocked it was so terrible.  This was hyped as the battle of all battles (one of the few things they are supposed to be good at), and it was just a horrifying mess that was entirely too hard to see.  I'm still kinda stuck cringing, other than a few thoughts.  I don't even want to rewatch, not really, it was just a bit too long of a dark mess.  It was the worst battle visuals they've ever done, I think. 

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8 minutes ago, Neds Secret said:

Kind of leads one to ask if the NK was only after Bran? would he have been happy to stop at Winterfell after he had got Bran? Is Bran secretly a villain having set all these people up to protect him, and him alone, if the NK was after Bran and only Bran. It may have saved thousands of lives if they had of just dropped bran off up beyond the wall to appease the NK! the thing is, and I actually like Bran, that the way this show has been presented to us then sacrificing Bran makes a lot if sense, but only because we have no idea what the NKs true motivation is and though I am being a little Ironic in suggesting to just give Bran up, but a hell of a lot of people died unnecessarily if the NK just wanted Bran, which is how it was made to look by the NKs actions in this episode. In short, it was bad storytelling, presented impressively with a really feel good climax, that leaves one extremely unfulfilled when all the plot holes and unanswered questions springs to mind. This show, man, it really could have been something spectacular, it started that way, it had the potential, and yet this is what it evolved into . such a damn shame

 

Totally agree, I mentioned this a few posts ago.

 

With all the information we have as viewers the most logical solution to this whole issue would be to kill Bran. Bran brings nothing to the table, but if captured will cause an endless night? Where's Stannis when you need him? He'd be up for killing the kid. Its not like Bran is Bran anymore as well. I am hoping there is still some kind of late game reveal, cause it just makes no sense.

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It's funny to look back on S1 and compare it to now. Everyone has become a super powerful fighter, borderline invincible, slaying dozens upon dozens of enemies, taking on 100s at a time.

Seriously, wtf are we going to do for 3 80 minute episodes now? Who cares able Cersei? How is she even a threat? 

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So what, Lyanna and Rhaegar just had Jon because they wanted to bang? There is nothing special about Jon? He came back to life... to stand by while Arya, Ninja Turtle fell down from the sky and ended the short night.

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1 hour ago, Coffeewiththegods said:

What in the world did I just witness? It was so laughable at the end. Jon’s plan being to just yell at the undead dragon. 

LOLOL  No, I'm going with he was trying to tame UnDead Viserion.  It was almost like Dany in Daznak's Pit, just minus the whip.  Ok, it was probably a suicide run, but I'm going with he finally decided to try and train a dragon the hard way.  

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1 minute ago, Lady Fevre Dream said:

Actually, that's kind of how I feel.  I'm having a hard time because, honestly, I'm shocked it was so terrible.  This was hyped as the battle of all battles (one of the few things they are supposed to be good at), and it was just a horrifying mess that was entirely too hard to see.  I'm still kinda stuck cringing, other than a few thoughts.  I don't even want to rewatch, not really, it was just a bit too long of a dark mess.  It was the worst battle visuals they've ever done, I think. 

 

In an even larger sense, this horrifying mess was the climax of a story 10 years in the making (or 20 years if you're going by the books). The very first scene of Game of Thrones introduces us to the Others and shows them to be a real, if mysterious, threat. As time has gone on, we've seen more and more of them, and they've always been this kind of vague threat just lurking on the periphary of the political story. But they were always there, and they were always coming. Then, they finally break through the wall after thousands of years, and..... They make it as far as Winterfell? They lasted 3 episodes south of the Wall, after being hyped up for literally decades. What the hell was the point of the Others? Why were they even in the story, if their only purpose was "bad just to be bad"? No motivation, no history, no explanation, just show up and get destroyed?

 

It makes zero sense in a storytelling context. Absolutely zero sense.

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Just now, Le Cygne said:

So what, Lyanna and Rhaegar just had Jon because they wanted to bang? There is nothing special about Jon? He came back to life... to stand by while Arya, Ninja Turtle fell down from the sky and ended the short night.

It's pretty interesting to note how the early set-up from R/L to the Azor Ahai prophecy to the Others has basically been abandoned and thrown-in here as limply as possible. I think it's quite clear they gave up a long time ago. I think they just liked the Red Wedding and wanted to put that 'shocking' scene on-screen, and that was the extent of their interest. 

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Posted (edited)
5 hours ago, Snormund said:

Arya is kicking ass for a while, and then inexplicably is overcome with fear.  Arya, the stone cold assassin who doesn’t fear death, suddenly decides she does, in fact, fear undead ice zombies and transports herself into a horror movie segment. She’s met by The Hound (who also inexplicably is overcome with fear and fleeing) and Beric (accompanying the Hound for no other discernible reason than moral support), and they run into a big room where Beric dies of wounds sustained in the fight.  Mel reappears, angry that she was disturbed after finally finding a room with good WiFi, but decides to give Arya encouragement, because Arya suddenly needs to be reminded to be brave.  We are set up to believe that Arya, The Hound and Mel are going to have a stand against a bunch of the NK’s goons, but we never see this. Somehow, Arya escapes out of a super secret passageway and Mel and The Hound later emerge unscathed. Maybe Mel flashed her tits at the wights and distracted them. It’d make as much sense as anything else. Very miffed I didn’t get to see Mel incinerate some of the wights and/or white walkers in a showdown with Arya and the Hound giving her cover. 

haha, I don't know if you watched the Inside the Episode edition, but according to Benioff it's because she hit her head. :lol:

Edited by Corvinus

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9 minutes ago, Lady Fevre Dream said:

Actually, that's kind of how I feel.  I'm having a hard time because, honestly, I'm shocked it was so terrible.  This was hyped as the battle of all battles (one of the few things they are supposed to be good at), and it was just a horrifying mess that was entirely too hard to see.  I'm still kinda stuck cringing, other than a few thoughts.  I don't even want to rewatch, not really, it was just a bit too long of a dark mess.  It was the worst battle visuals they've ever done, I think. 

It was really cringey. The surprising thing was just how bad it was. I at least thought they might have a semi-coherent battle.

It makes you appreciate how nicely done was GRRM's Blackwater script. He set up the stakes, focused on essentials.

They just threw a bunch of stuff at the wall. And made up the stakes, and focused on their creatively we wanted it to happen nonsense.

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