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Lady Fevre Dream

Rant and Rave Without Repercussion End of The World Edition [Spoilers]

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2 hours ago, Corvinus said:

One last rant on this, and I'll have another callback to something from season 1 - Old Nan's words, pretty much taken word for word from the book:

"Thousands of a years ago, there came a night that lasted a generation. Kings froze to death in their castles, same as the shepherds in their huts. And women smothered their babies, rather than see them starve, and wept, and felt the tears freeze on their cheeks... In that darkness, the White Walkers came for the first time. They swept through cities and kingdoms, riding their dead horses, hunting with their packs of pale spiders, big as hounds."

 The White Walkers clearly got lazy the second time.

It's stuff like that that makes the whole episode even dumber. The Others are meant to bring incredible cold, an apocalyptic winter. And in the show we get... 2 inches of snow and nobody feeling the chill. Good, Christ.

Worse still, I'm seeing people out in droves now praising this as 'subversive' (ala TLJ praise) rather than the laziness and attempt to wrap up as easily and contrivedly  as B&W possibly can. 

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On 4/29/2019 at 5:02 PM, Lady Fevre Dream said:

Yes, Shireen burning is confirmed, what is not is the exact manner and the person or persons that do it.  It seems a hard call to reunite those characters in the books right now.  They lack a certain LF jet pack as well as other transporter equipment.  I'm aware of how the Ds are slippery with their words.  I thought the confirmation of the White Walker origin was done in more clarifying manner than the yeah, when George told us Shireen burns thing, it's just been so long since I read anything on that.

My expectation is that Melisandre burns Shireen as part of a ritual to resurrect Jon Snow, leaving Jon horribly conflicted on being restored to life.

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3 minutes ago, SeanF said:

My expectation is that Melisandre burns Shireen as part of a ritual to resurrect Jon Snow, leaving Jon horribly conflicted on being restored to life.

Why should Jon be particularly conflicted? He barely knows Shireen.

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2 minutes ago, Lord Varys said:

Why should Jon be particularly conflicted? He barely knows Shireen.

Wouldn't you be a little upset that a little girl had to be burned alive so that you could come back to life, even if you barely knew the child?

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1 minute ago, Madarjeen said:

Wouldn't you be a little upset that a little girl had to be burned alive so that you could come back to life, even if you barely knew the child?

Sure, but it is done. I'd not be able to change that.

If you want Jon to be conflicted somebody he actually loves should pay the price.

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8 minutes ago, Lord Varys said:

Why should Jon be particularly conflicted? He barely knows Shireen.

He may share Ned's attitude about killing kids? Ned was still pissed at Robert after Rhaegar's kids were murdered.

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14 minutes ago, Ser Drewy said:

It's stuff like that that makes the whole episode even dumber. The Others are meant to bring incredible cold, an apocalyptic winter. And in the show we get... 2 inches of snow and nobody feeling the chill. Good, Christ.

And funny how the blizzard we did get ended at the walls of Winterfell. The last part of the battle, the air was clear again.

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3 minutes ago, Corvinus said:

He may share Ned's attitude about killing kids? Ned was still pissed at Robert after Rhaegar's kids were murdered.

Yeah, but said children weren't killed to resurrect another person.

But, seriously, the idea that anybody is going to burn to bring back Jon is pretty ridiculous. There is nothing hinting at such a development nor does any character in the books have even the slightest motivation to do something like that.

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9 minutes ago, Lord Varys said:

Yeah, but said children weren't killed to resurrect another person.

But, seriously, the idea that anybody is going to burn to bring back Jon is pretty ridiculous. There is nothing hinting at such a development nor does any character in the books have even the slightest motivation to do something like that.

True. Personally, I'm not even convinced he's actually dead. Mortally stabbed, sure, but Mel could simply use a spell to heal him. Or even if his body dies, we know what Jon is in the books.

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Sandor, Arya or Melisandre didn't think about trying to revive Beric again through the Lord of Light/R'hllor? why?

Looked like thousands of people retreated into Winterfell though there was so few people defending the walls when the dead were climbing the walls.

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38 minutes ago, Ser Drewy said:

It's stuff like that that makes the whole episode even dumber. The Others are meant to bring incredible cold, an apocalyptic winter. And in the show we get... 2 inches of snow and nobody feeling the chill. Good, Christ.

Worse still, I'm seeing people out in droves now praising this as 'subversive' (ala TLJ praise) rather than the laziness and attempt to wrap up as easily and contrivedly  as B&W possibly can. 

The only person affected by winter was poor old Stannis and his horses, beyond that this fellow Mr. Winters was never seen again on these parts. 

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2 minutes ago, Godfrey said:

Sandor, Arya or Melisandre didn't think about trying to revive Beric again through the Lord of Light/R'hllor? why?

Looked like thousands of people retreated into Winterfell though there was so few people defending the walls when the dead were climbing the walls.

Because this Night the only kind of miracle allowed was the one about lighting up wood! Ooooh! Magic is so mysteriooooous!

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Just now, Saturno said:

Because this Night the only kind of miracle allowed was the one about lighting up wood! Ooooh! Magic is so mysteriooooous!

Sure

Beric dying to resurrect someone would've been good. Nice to see Arya didn't hate him when he died though. 

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I don't know why they don't just hire the Waif to wipe out Cersei and her goons.

Judging by Arya's prowess, the girl who effortlessly beat the breaks off her every day must be Achilles reborn.

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5 minutes ago, Godfrey said:

Sandor, Arya or Melisandre didn't think about trying to revive Beric again through the Lord of Light/R'hllor? why?

Looked like thousands of people retreated into Winterfell though there was so few people defending the walls when the dead were climbing the walls.

You gotta love these wall scenes! It warms my heart to think that the show production team decided to arrange the dragonglass exactly in the spots that no Wight would touch and avoided altogether to put the shards on those places it was obvious the Wights would pass through! It's endearing! 

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4 minutes ago, Saturno said:

You gotta love these wall scenes! It warms my heart to think that the show production team decided to arrange the dragonglass exactly in the spots that no Wight would touch and avoided altogether to put the shards on those places it was obvious the Wights would pass through! It's endearing! 

There was scenes of the wights running into the dragonglass blockades in Winterfell, it's easy to miss

 

Guessing all the arrows had to have dragonglass too.

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20 hours ago, 14ccKemistk said:

This episode was horrible in so many ways. Really poorly done. D&D fanfiction at its worst.

Because:

-Melisandre appearing out of nowhere, no backstory, no reason, no explanation on why she came from the wrong direction. Also she does not do anything meaningful. 

-Dothraki suicide charge. Who ordered them to do that and why?

-Dragons fire charges, why so few?

-How did the wights become so easy to kill all of a sudden?

-Why no fighting for the White Walkers?

-Where and why did Bran warg? What was the purpose?

-How and when did Arya get into the library?

-Why weren't the walls manned directly after the retreat into Winterfell?

-How on earth did Arya ex Machina get into position to kill the Night King?

I'm really in no mood to even watch the remaining episodes. Predictable, fan fiction, fan service BS.

The Mellisandre part was just another symptom of the show not really planning ahead. They sent her away and later realized they need her so they brought her back with no explanation other than "she was meant to die in the great war".

 

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4 minutes ago, Godfrey said:

There was scenes of the wights running into the dragonglass blockades in Winterfell, it's easy to miss

 

Guessing all the arrows had to have dragonglass too.

The blockades were fine, I'm talking about the ones on the wall. They are only placed on the taller parts that are used as cover by the Archers, and not on the lower ones where we see wights climbing 

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Okay... I do think I need to get this out of my system to get my faith in television out of this rut and move on with my life and read Tolstoy or something. So bear with me, please. 

The Short Night 1 - Battles and warfare

From the first to the very last second of it, the battle made no common sense whatsoever. 

The offensive strategy was the most reckless, unimaginative, wasteful use of their resources. They threw a 100 thousand strong cavalry out of the window in the matter of minutes, and what’s even worse, risked the reanimation of said 100 thousand warriors. Yes, the Dothraki are excellent riders and their prior choice of weapon is an arakh. But I can think of 5 ideas from the top of my head on they could have utilized them better and longer. Daenerys and Jorah know the Dothraki. Jon, Sam, Tormund, Davos, Beric, The Hound, Jorah, Edd, Gendry and again, JON know the zombie army. Also three quarters of these people are experienced, battle seasoned leaders.

Your best goddamn idea is wasting the largest part of army headfirst and risking its taking a 180 degree turn and charging back at you with glowing blue eyes? And what was their plan if Melisandre hadn’t showed up? They would have sent the Dothraki into the meat grinder with regular arakhs that everybody knows to be useless against the zombies? This was completely unforgivable and irredeemable. 

Why not give the dothraki flaming nets or ropes to stretch between two riders and enclose/cover the zombies if they were going to charge at them? Why not give them flaming whips? Anything to take down as many dead around them as possible? And first and foremost, why have them charge in the first place? Why not have them wait on the flanks and shoot into the dead. There are a hundred thousand of them! If only ONE tenth of the arrows they fire hit a target, they are taking down ten thousands by the minute. Do we remember the orcs firing at the riders of Rohan? Do we remember the undying from 300? These are all visually impressive options that make strategic sense. Later as the dead charge forward and they run out of arrows, the Dothraki could pour in from the sides and hold them back from the castle. 

I hope these brave and loyal warriors find peace in the Night Lands and tell Khal Drogo over a beer what a fuckup his widow’s new boyfriend is.

I don’t know what happened to the trebuchets after about three or four shots. Did they run out of flaming balls? Did they get bored with it? Did they just abandon those structures? 

And then we had a trench. A trench. As in one. Why wasn’t there at least five of that in concentric circles around Winterfell? They have known about this threat for months and months. Did they start building the defense the night before? And why wasn’t the whole entire ground covered in something flammable, like nets or oil or animal fat or tree wax or whatever flammable they have in the north. Why didn’t they have a trench around Bran? 

The walls were so poorly manned as if it had been a regular weekday with no extra defenses. There were no barrels of oil or fat or anything flammable to pour on the zombies, no chains, no burning maces, no nothing to restrain them and keep distance. 

There was also some kind of talk about some kind of high ground in the previous episode. I didn’t see no high ground. I didn’t see no utilization of a high ground. You know, there is a book and its movie adaptation that recounts one of my country’s most renowned (and successful) battles against the Turks in the 16th century. Both book and movie adaptation (as well as actual historical sources) feature a construction named fire wheel. The purpose of this flaming tool was to roll into the lines of the Turks from the hill. It was built of large wheels and other highly flammable substances. The battle happened in 1552, the book was written in 1899 and the movie was produced in 1968. It’s Just saying. 

I will not even get into their lack of backup plan for the case that the dragons can’t light the trench. Thank goodness for Mel ex machina. No thanks to her speed of walking. Or that they had no plan or exit route for all those pathetic, non-badass, weak and dependent women and children in the crypts. 

The whole entire battle stank of lack thought and effort, common sense was not demonstrated for a single second and barely anything that happened had a purpose or made the remotest impact on the course of the battle. The events of the battle were shaped by visual value, sheer luck and ex machina situations. The walking dead flooded the scene, killed every stuntman, evaded almost every named character and then Wolverine ex machina killed the mothership and the dead were no longer walking. The end. The “Great War” for humanity was won in what seemed to be less than a full night while people south of Moat Cailin were watching TV in their sunbeds. 

I don’t expect anybody to be an expert on military strategy, I am not either, but I do expect anybody who takes on writing about a battle, fictional or otherwise, to make the effort of conducting a basic google research, to use their common sense and to put just 10 minutes of brainstorming into each scene before they finalize it. Or heck, delegate all of it to interns if you are too rich and important for proper work ethic. Just. Get it. Done. 

/part 1 is over, bear with me, there will be more. 

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