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Ser Yorick Ampersand

What is stopping Arya from killing Cersei and Euron?

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Posted (edited)
On 4/30/2019 at 1:16 AM, Saturno said:

And that is exactly how Walder Frey died. Arya chose (bizarrely) to kill and impersonate his innocent wife, but she could easily do the same by impersonating a guard or one of the other Frey's.

Actually she took the face of a kitchen maid, not his wife. She serves guests like Bron and Jaime during the celebration of taking RR back. Bron mentions how she eyes Jaime, thinking she does it because of his looks. Then the hall is empty and Walder Frey is complaining where 2 of his sons are, and she serves him a pie with the kitchen maid's face. Then she points out the finger in the pie saying "They are here!", takes of the face, tells him she wants him to know that a Stark killed him, and slits his throat. All before Jaime and Bronn arrive at KL to see the devestation that Cersei has done and witness her being crowned.

Then s7 starts with the cold open of Walder Frey having organised an extra feast to celebrate his family with a toast of wine, tells Walder's wife not to drink. Every man in there dies from poison. Arya takes of Walder's face and leaves.

But yeah, if Dany, Jon and everyone else is smart, they should just send an Arya. I have no problem in theory with Arya being an important key skilled person to take out dangers. She is my favourite character in the books. But they had her do too much. She got to make Manderly's Frey Pies + kill all (?) Frey man who normally are spread across 3 castles (Riverrun, Darry and Twins) and the stage is set for LS + BwB + civilians + High Sparrow followers taking out at least 2 of these, Walder Frey's own heirs killing each other off, etc, oh and Stannis gets to kill half their army too. It's basically an entire arc of 1 book that Arya gets to do in 2 scenes. And now she takes out the NK, all of his lieutenants and all his wight army (mothership logic). And based on how the show had Jaquen kill off all the soldiers at HH to help Arya, Hot Pie and Gendry escape, Arya in theory should be able to kill the entire Red Keep by herself. She's an army all by herself. D&d claim to not like the magic of the books, but now they made her Super-Arya, while even Superman has a weakness - kryptonite.

And yeah, they won't have Arya do Cersei for "reasons".

Edited by sweetsunray

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Posted (edited)

"What is stopping Arya from killing Cersei and Euron?"

Possible Answer:  Arya is pregnant with triplets by Gendry.  By the time the North burn all the dead, regroup, rebuild forces, and march to King's Landing, more than six months have passed.  And Arya has gained 80 pounds, has a swollen belly and swollen ankles, and moves slower than Sam Tarly after a big breakfast buffet.  The maester recommends full bed rest for Arya at Winterfell until she gives birth.  We don't see her again until the series finale epilogue when she is nursing 3 fat babies, while Gendry is forging 3 iron cribs.

 

Edited by funpig

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49 minutes ago, MinscS2 said:

Credit where credit is due, but I'd actually put LF's death at Sansa's feet and not Arya's. 

Sansa passed the sentence, Arya was merely the instrument. 

Well we don't know what happened behind the scenes but I'm assuming Arya knew LF was watching (maybe Sansa knew it as well) and played that game of conflict to catch LF off guard. She did more than just merely be the instrument. Not once did I feel their BS conflict had any real merit to them. I felt that that was Arya's way of trying to catch someone off guard and show their true nature, take off that ''mask''. Apparently that's what Arya's so good at, playing that game. Considering Bran never really shares anything, not sure if he had much to do with it. The show has done such a poor job of showing that, that I don't believe he did. So Arya-Sansa teamed up, with Arya initiating it all (at best Sansa came with the idea and passed the sentence) but Arya played the game to catch LF off gaurd and she was the one who killed Littlefinger. I'd put that more on Arya than Sansa. Sansa did her part, but Arya played a bigger part in initiating and finishing. Kind of like Ramsay, Jon played his small part, but Sansa initiated it and finished him off. Or maybe Sansa came up with the plan to catch LF off guard, the show did a poor job of showing that much. Either way, fact isArya killed LF. The rest is just speculation.

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On 4/29/2019 at 5:18 AM, Ser Yorick Ampersand said:

Arya somehow (will never be explained) killed the biggest, strongest, magical, threat to mankind.

What the hell is drunk Cersei or dumb Euron compared to that?

Why don't they just sit outside Kingslanding and wait for Wolverine to kill everyone's favorite couple?

Plot.

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9 hours ago, darmody said:

 

Why Arya? Aside from the fact that she kills everything. 

Popular sentiment is for Jaime to kill Cersei for many reasons, but for me it's because she's the Mad Queen. She partly pulls off what he slayed the king to prevent. Which means he should have killed her the moment he got back from the Riverlands, but as Tywin knew he's a slow learner. 

The major reasons I thought of Arya is:

She actually has the skill/capability

She has motive because Cersei was the perceived leader when Ned was beheaded and that, for me personally, would be huge fuel.

 And to your point, in all actuality, while she had the NK stunt and is probably getting a little OVER exposure in the show (imo), I feel like there IS actual logic and reason for her to want to.

 

9 hours ago, darmody said:

I don't get why Cersei would be Arya's kill. Besides being on her list. But she barely killed anyone on her list.

On the other hand, those two characters have barely had any interaction on the show. I don't even remember if they exchanged any dialogue. 

I'm not saying it should be. I'm just saying, having analyzed and cross analyzed all these scenarios and "blood bowls" for 18+ years I feel like Jaime killing Cersei would be fine but I feel like at this point (while still using LOGIC) someone else killing her would be cool. 

For what it's worth (and it will never happen, but hey, a guy can dream) I would LOVE for Cersei to lose, Jon to be king and Jon, as a northerner, pass the judgement and see to the execution in a similar scenario to Ned being killed. It's never going to happen that way, but I think that would be a nice final homage for the Starks. 

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14 hours ago, MinscS2 said:

6 episodes, 3 to go.

Yeah I looked it up and saw that. My mistake. I could have sworn that they said there would only be five this season though.

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On 4/29/2019 at 7:21 AM, SixFeetUnder said:

The night king doesn’t exist in the books..... so..... I can’t imagine Arya killing the night king in the books.....

And in the books, Cersei is far from the best player in the game.  She is not Queen (at least not yet).  And

 

On 4/29/2019 at 9:02 AM, Kajjo said:

Arya killed the first White Walker by sticking a Valyrian steel dagger into him. We know that dragon glass and Valyrian steel works and we know how White Walkers shatter from Sam killing one and Jon Snow killing one in Hardhome and one in the wights excursion. So this is all consistent and fine with me.

Arya is not shown to have super-powers. She is just a skilled assassin and good fighter. She gets almost killed from the Nightking and does her special "change the hand" move with the dagger we have been show when sparring with Brienne. This is believable and makes a lot of sense.

Arya is not a warrior fighting against the Golden Company the whole King's Guard and the Mountain at once. of course, we might see a duel against the Mountain or an assassination against Cersei. I really hop for it. But even that would require Arya so sneek in somehow.

The NK's death scene was fine and well done. Too much moaning and too little enjoying the show here.

:agree:.   Hear, hear!  Well said.

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18 hours ago, darmody said:

Arya is not a Faceless Man. She didn't finish training. Or start training, really, beyond staff-fighting and wandering around blind. 

Actually she is and she did finish the training.  Jaq'n Hgar calling her 'No One' is pretty much her diploma.  Her final test was killing the Waif.

Didn't start training?   Um.... 

 

18 hours ago, darmody said:

Anyway, I guess a Faceless Man could kill the Night King. But he wouldn't do it the way Arya did it. Unless he used some kind of magic. Instead, he'd perch on the castle wall and shoot a dragonglass blow-dart into him, or something. 

 

Unfortunately, Arya didn't have a dragonglass blow-dart on hand.  But she did have a Valyrian steel dagger.  So she made do.

 

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On 4/29/2019 at 7:16 PM, Saturno said:

This "full lockdown mode" only is a viable defense against Arya if it is very, very unrealistic , like having Cersei stand in a room with the Mountain 24/7. If she does ANYTHING more than literally stand still, like having someone to bring her food, or having her servants help her to wash and change clothes is enough a breach, BY FAR, for Arya to kill her.

And that is exactly how Walder Frey died. Arya chose (bizarrely) to kill and impersonate his innocent wife, but she could easily do the same by impersonating a guard or one of the other Frey's.

That wasn't Frey's wife.  His last wife was standing beside Arya when she was impersonating Walder and poisoning all the Frey men

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On 4/29/2019 at 9:29 PM, Selere said:

Euron's "secret weapon"could definitely make it more interesting, but don't overestimate the writer's ability to make interesting moments.

If this is a response to what's in the spoiler tag, then this belongs in spoiler tags also

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Tywin Tytosson said:

Actually she is and she did finish the training.  Jaq'n Hgar calling her 'No One' is pretty much her diploma.  Her final test was killing the Waif.

Didn't start training?   Um....

She got as far as blind fighting and walking around with a funny hair-do. I don't remember seeing her train to wear faces or assume identities. Which is pretty much that organization's whole shtick. 

As for the "no one," a girl replied that she was Arya Stark, so I think that's an automatic fail right there. 

Edited by darmody

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, darmody said:

She got as far as blind fighting and walking around with a funny hair-do. I don't remember seeing her train to wear faces or assume identities. Which is pretty much that organization's whole shtick. 

As for the "no one," a girl replied that she was Arya Stark, so I think that's an automatic fail right there. 

She must have trained to do that, because she did that when she killed Merryn Trant.  And she wore 2 faces when she killed the Freys. We weren't shown any training re. wearing faces.  That doesn't mean that it didn't happen.

(i think that she does get this training in the books.  but i may be wrong; its been  awhile)

Jaquen called her 'no one' before Arya declared herself Arya Stark of Winterfell, so its an automatic success right there. She passed.  She was a Faceless Man.

What was his line, 'at last a Girl is No One'?  That's pretty much a 'you have passed the test' moment.

Edited by Tywin Tytosson

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15 minutes ago, Tywin Tytosson said:

She must have trained to do that, because she did that when she killed Merryn Trant.  And she wore 2 faces when she killed the Freys. We weren't shown any training re. wearing faces.  That doesn't mean that it didn't happen.

(i think that she does get this training in the books.  but i may be wrong; its been  awhile)

Jaquen called her 'no one' before Arya declared herself Arya Stark of Winterfell, so its an automatic success right there. She passed.  She was a Faceless Man.

What was his line, 'at last a Girl is No One'?  That's pretty much a 'you have passed the test' moment.

You assume she was trained because it happened, but we never saw evidence of that. Nor did we see her train to be the greatest Swordsman in Westeros. Nor to butcher human meat or bake pies or be super stealthy or materialize mid-air behind an Ice Demon. 

Why would Jaquen pass her, anyway? Assuming that was the real point of the scene. Because she did Independent Study getting stabbed in the gut then killing the T-2000 in a dark room? And how did Arya not die but rather show up to Faceless U.? And why was she not immediately killed considering the Waif was sent to kill her the day before? Was that all a test?

No, that whole storyline was just nonsense. 

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It's obvious to me that arya will off Jon and dany,  reveal herself as the waif, take cerseis face, live happily ever after with Jack sparrow as queen of the world 

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Posted (edited)

Answering the OT: LOGICALLY nothing is keeping Arya from slipping inside King's Landing and kill Cersei and Euron. The show established Arya as a fully fledged Faceless (Wo)man, if you read the books you know that having tight security is no garantee of safety against them. Arya could posion Cersei, or shoot her with an arrow, or arrange for something heavy to drop on the queen's head or steal someone's face and stab her in the back.

Will it happen? Probably not,  because Arya had the spotlight more than anyone else on the northener's and Dany's side and because the people writing this show don't care much for logic.

That said a better line of reasoning would be: how could Cersei prevent Arya from killing her? One answer I can think of is: hire ANOTHER faceless man to confront her. This would require Cersei knew what Arya was capable of and was willing to pay the Faceless Men's price which more often than not is not "just" money but rather "something really precious for the supplicant" (could be money if the supplicant is greedy, could also be an arm for a renowned fighter or a sibling one loves, the only constant is the Faceless ask for something that CAN be paid and are willing to work for the rich AND the poor).

The Faceless could also get involved if they decide Arya could not be allowed to live. She knows what they know, has learned their tricks and their magic and has kept an identity. The Faceless Men are above all a religious cult that requires those affiliated with it to abandon their identity and act according to their creed, "living" other people's lives. When Arya refused to become "no one" and reclaimed her name she also refused the Faceless Men creed. It may very well be they are not willing to let this go unpunished.

P.S.

As for Arya and the Night King: I agree that development came out of nowhere and Arya is portrayed as some sort of super-assassin AND super-warrior. Let's say her training with the Faceless, brief as it was, was enough for her to master their trade. The Faceless are NOT warriors. They are assassins. They may be good with a blade or other weaponry but they simply don't face their opponents in the open. On the contrary, arranging events so their presence cannot be determined for sure is one of their trademarks. Season 8 has portrayed Arya as something she should not be. Besides that, for all her sneaking around invisibly to the living, the dead, the White Walkers AND the Night King she yells loudly when she jumps on the NK, which is idiotic, considering we are supposed to believe she's so good no one was able to sense her, even in a space crowded with dead soldiers and supernatural monsters.

 

Edited by elanmorin

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On 5/3/2019 at 12:08 PM, Gianna Dorenberg said:

Are you seriously defending that ? Come on.

You telling me, with a straight face, that Arya can magically jump further than Michael Jordan ? That is not humanly possible, especially for a small girl. There was absolutely nothing close from where she could have jumped. The distance was at least 15-20 feet and nothing above or around them close enough to jump from.

People seriously overrate Arya's training for barely a year. We're talking about a small girl but somehow she can fight better than Bruce Lee, run faster than Usain Bolt and leap further in the air than Michael Jordan. Give me a break.

In a world where she (and lots of other people) can apparently change her entire face and body shape?  In a world where a magical being can raise the dead to undead?  In a world where someone can reanimate a corpse and turn it into a Kingsguard?  In a world where a young teenage girl can walk into a pyre with some dragon eggs, stay alive and hatch three dragons?  In a world where there is a Wall of Ice 700 feet tall?  In a world the size of where AGOT takes place. there are so many chance meetings on the road? 

Yes, I can stay with a straight face that Arya being able to leap a few feet is one of the least of the things that seem unbelievable about the show.

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On 5/4/2019 at 6:28 AM, Tywin Tytosson said:

She must have trained to do that, because she did that when she killed Merryn Trant.  And she wore 2 faces when she killed the Freys. We weren't shown any training re. wearing faces.  That doesn't mean that it didn't happen.

(i think that she does get this training in the books.  but i may be wrong; its been  awhile)

Jaquen called her 'no one' before Arya declared herself Arya Stark of Winterfell, so its an automatic success right there. She passed.  She was a Faceless Man.

What was his line, 'at last a Girl is No One'?  That's pretty much a 'you have passed the test' moment.

Yes, absolutely.  The problem with the medium of TV is that people aren't imaginative enough to realise that 99% of everything has to happen off screen and there needs to be an acceptance of that.  We saw less than 0.5% of Arya's training in the show.

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11 hours ago, Ser Gareth said:

In a world where she (and lots of other people) can apparently change her entire face and body shape?  In a world where a magical being can raise the dead to undead?  In a world where someone can reanimate a corpse and turn it into a Kingsguard?  In a world where a young teenage girl can walk into a pyre with some dragon eggs, stay alive and hatch three dragons?  In a world where there is a Wall of Ice 700 feet tall?  In a world the size of where AGOT takes place. there are so many chance meetings on the road? 

Yes, I can stay with a straight face that Arya being able to leap a few feet is one of the least of the things that seem unbelievable about the show.

There's a reason for all of that. Those instances are tied to magic. The Faceless Man are a thing, The NK raising the dead is a thing. Dany is a dragon queen.

Arya is just a human. She has no real magic in her unlike all those other instances. Changing her face is something she learned from TFM. Just because the show is based on fantasy, and has many of those elements, doesn't mean everything can be tied to it. GOT is, or at least used to be, still grounded in realism. Despite the setting. Things made sense. We've seen Arya, never leap further than humanly possible, at Braavos. We've seen Ser Jorahs armor not get pierced by a weapon in the early seasons but he died because his armor got pierced like butter. I can also say that makes perfect sense given the fantasy elements in the show, but it wouldn't make any sense in that instance. But whatever. If she can leap 20 feet, surely she can leap from Winterfell to Kings Landing as well, by your logic.

 

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5 hours ago, Gianna Dorenberg said:

There's a reason for all of that. Those instances are tied to magic. The Faceless Man are a thing, The NK raising the dead is a thing. Dany is a dragon queen.

Arya is just a human. She has no real magic in her unlike all those other instances. Changing her face is something she learned from TFM. Just because the show is based on fantasy, and has many of those elements, doesn't mean everything can be tied to it. GOT is, or at least used to be, still grounded in realism. Despite the setting. Things made sense. We've seen Arya, never leap further than humanly possible, at Braavos. We've seen Ser Jorahs armor not get pierced by a weapon in the early seasons but he died because his armor got pierced like butter. I can also say that makes perfect sense given the fantasy elements in the show, but it wouldn't make any sense in that instance. But whatever. If she can leap 20 feet, surely she can leap from Winterfell to Kings Landing as well, by your logic.

 

BTW, the US Junior (junior high school so younger than Arya) record for female long jump MIDGET division, which is not even a fair comparison as it's 12-13 yr olds and Arya is 18, is held by  Myra Combs at 18' 1.5".  The record for girls just below Aryas age range is actually 23' 5" held by Heike Dreschler.

You assume that she jumped 20', I say it was much less. You say that's super human, and yet it's actually done by girls younger than Arya in real life, not fantasy.

 

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On 4/29/2019 at 1:16 PM, Ser Gareth said:

Not sure what the problem is here.  She trained with the FM and became a top class assassin, who knows Winterfell backwards so wouldn't have an issue sneaking around the Godswood, especially as the undead were in a state of stasis at the NK's command.  We've seen her pull the dagger move before, sparring with Brienne, and it was a Valyrian steel dagger which we know can kill an Other.

Was it too sudden and cheesy?  Yes.  Unbelievable?  Well Arya can change faces, so not as unbelievable as most of the stuff she can do.

The problem is she managed to kill the Night King when he was surrounded by his own Others and wrights. And he was as skilled and awake as ever - not even dragonfire could scratch him. But then, poof.

It would have been fine for Arya to kill him if there was any reason she would get to that point. And simply being a trained assassing isn't enough of a reason. They should have seen her coming a mile away. They were all right there, standing still and watching.

There are so many ways they could have made a bridge to this moment. Bran could have distracted the Night King by attacking him with a flock of crows, at the very least. Or he could have done something else with his power.

The dragons could have wounded the Night King so he'd be easier to kill.

The dragons could have killed his lieutenants, and we could have been shown how that caused large parts of the army to fall. Then the Night King had to control the entire army on his own, which would distract him.

There could have been a fight with Jon first to weaken him.

The Lady of Tarth could have sacrificed herself, as she had sworn to defend Catelyn's children to the death. That includes Bran.

Melissandre could have sacrificed herself in a final fireburst against the Night King. Talk about "of Ice and Fire".

Just something, anything, to make it believable that the Night King wouldn't be at the top of his game in that crucial moment. Because when he's at the top of his game, he never has to change his facial expression because everything goes his way.

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