Dragons dance with Wolves Posted May 4, 2019 Share Posted May 4, 2019 So much hate on Jon Snow in the show post Season 5, but let’s look at his arc...Show Jon was the first guy to kill a wight on the Night’s watch. He did successfully kill two white walkers, one at Hardhome, and another ranging north of the Wall. He was elected Commander of the Night’s Watch at a very young age. He has a charisma about him that has earned the respect of various leaders of men, including Jeor Mormont, Mance Rayder, Stannis Baratheon, Tormund Giantsbane... even Danerys... he’s had quite a few excellent moments in his character development and he shows courage not only physically but mentally as well. He may not always make the right decision, but he does learn from his mistakes and is aware of them. I’d argue that’s what makes him a good leader. Without Jon, Winterfell never gets recaptured from the Bolton’s and the North doesn’t rise against Cersei again. Sansa deserves a lot of credit too for surviving what she did and powerbrokering her relationship with Littlefinger into essentially de facto control of The Vale, but without Jon, she doesn’t make it that far. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ordee Posted May 4, 2019 Share Posted May 4, 2019 4 hours ago, darksellsword said: an end to conflict, a way to beat Daenerys if Dany refuses to accept Jons claim. There is a good chance there is absolutely no relationship between Aegon and Dany now and she just expects him to stay quiet and accept that she is Queen or even worse she just flat out believes he is lying. "The war for Cersei's c***t." Jamie Lanister, Season 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
starklover Posted May 4, 2019 Share Posted May 4, 2019 3 hours ago, Rose of Red Lake said: I think he's forced to accept Dany's wishes so that's why he's acting all submissive. Everyone has to walk on eggshells around her, Jon included. I dont think he actually has affection for her. You can kind of tell when a guy opens his eyes while kissing and when they give the moving, emotional beats in battle to Jorah/Dany. I think sassy "I mean no offense your grace but I DONT KNOW YOU" Jon is coming back now that he doesn't need Dany to do stuff for him. yeah i think he likes her but isnt in love with her. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
starklover Posted May 4, 2019 Share Posted May 4, 2019 2 hours ago, Dragons dance with Wolves said: So much hate on Jon Snow in the show post Season 5, but let’s look at his arc...Show Jon was the first guy to kill a wight on the Night’s watch. He did successfully kill two white walkers, one at Hardhome, and another ranging north of the Wall. He was elected Commander of the Night’s Watch at a very young age. He has a charisma about him that has earned the respect of various leaders of men, including Jeor Mormont, Mance Rayder, Stannis Baratheon, Tormund Giantsbane... even Danerys... he’s had quite a few excellent moments in his character development and he shows courage not only physically but mentally as well. He may not always make the right decision, but he does learn from his mistakes and is aware of them. I’d argue that’s what makes him a good leader. Without Jon, Winterfell never gets recaptured from the Bolton’s and the North doesn’t rise against Cersei again. Sansa deserves a lot of credit too for surviving what she did and powerbrokering her relationship with Littlefinger into essentially de facto control of The Vale, but without Jon, she doesn’t make it that far. i agree. dany has done good things but after season four she started to become very power hungry and i dont like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
divica Posted May 4, 2019 Share Posted May 4, 2019 21 minutes ago, princess brittany said: i agree. dany has done good things but after season four she started to become very power hungry and i dont like that. I think the problem is that she doesn t seem simpathetic while ruling. It is all about punishing people and remembering everyone she is the the leader... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
starklover Posted May 4, 2019 Share Posted May 4, 2019 1 minute ago, divica said: I think the problem is that she doesn t seem simpathetic while ruling. It is all about punishing people and remembering everyone she is the the leader... yeah she didnt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MinscS2 Posted May 4, 2019 Share Posted May 4, 2019 We've seen Daenerys in a position where she actually ruled: Once she established herself in Mereen. She had insurgents in the Sons of the Harpy (who I can't blame for wanting their old lifes back, but I do blame them for their course of action, i.e. attacking anyone regardless of former class), but as far as actually ruling and dealing with the normal people of the city, she did alright. They came to her with their queries, she listened and tried to sort them out as best as she could. If not for the SotH life would've been peaceful. She did however, not seem to enjoy ruling Mereen very much, and I'm not so sure she'd enjoy ruling the 7K either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LucyMormont Posted May 5, 2019 Share Posted May 5, 2019 3 hours ago, MinscS2 said: We've seen Daenerys in a position where she actually ruled: Once she established herself in Mereen. She had insurgents in the Sons of the Harpy (who I can't blame for wanting their old lifes back, but I do blame them for their course of action, i.e. attacking anyone regardless of former class), but as far as actually ruling and dealing with the normal people of the city, she did alright. They came to her with their queries, she listened and tried to sort them out as best as she could. If not for the SotH life would've been peaceful. She did however, not seem to enjoy ruling Mereen very much, and I'm not so sure she'd enjoy ruling the 7K either. Yes, she did. She listened their petitions and problems and tried to give them answers and solutions. But the problem here is that the noble families, were also normal people, and part of the population who she intended to rule. Some of them were in the ranks of the Sons of the Harpy, but others not. And when Barristan Selmy was murdered, she didn't care in finding out who was guilty or innocent when she ordered the heads of the noble families to be brought to her, and feed one to her dragons. She even said " Who is innocent? Maybe all of you are, maybe none of you are..." It was very, very disturbing. Actually I had forgotten how disturbing that scene was, not only for the act itself, but also her face and expression while seeing the dragons roast and tear that man apart.. She was under the advice of Daario after Barristan died, not the best adviser to "temper her impulses". Tyrion had not arrived yet, and Jorah if I remember well, had been fired and exiled. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rose of Red Lake Posted May 5, 2019 Share Posted May 5, 2019 Yeah I bet Jon having to be Dany's watchdog at every moment so she can actually be less of a Targaryen is probably a living nightmare for him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MinscS2 Posted May 5, 2019 Share Posted May 5, 2019 3 hours ago, LucyMormont said: She was under the advice of Daario after Barristan died, not the best adviser to "temper her impulses". Tyrion had not arrived yet, and Jorah if I remember well, had been fired and exiled. Yes, Daario was a literal devil on her shoulder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghosteline Posted May 5, 2019 Share Posted May 5, 2019 On 4/29/2019 at 6:33 AM, bloodsteel bitterraven said: I honestly refuse to believe that the Others are done as a threat. It really makes no sense having Cersei be the show's true villain. This is pathetic writing! Totally agree. I truly truly hope that the Night King or some White Walkers somehow return. There is no friggin way I'm gonna watch some pathetic fight against a psycho drunken queen and watch numerous characters die in a stupid death over a throne. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jarl Halstein Posted May 5, 2019 Share Posted May 5, 2019 My prediction: Dany recognizes Jon as a Targaryen, as confirmed by Bran and by Sam who shows the books on this, and she gives him the throne after she has helped fry Cersey's army with her dragons and after Jaime has finally stabbed his sister. Dany goes back to the east, to rule the people who love her, where her dragons can keep them from becoming slaves once again. She knows Essos, she doesn't know Westeros, and she will realize this. It will be about where her true home is. Jon will appoint some important character as the new head of the Night's Watch, possibly Sam or Redbeard. It will be a true holding-hands moment when the Night's Watch is filled with people from beyond the wall, singing we are all brothers and there's no real difference. This will be declared as the best way to patrol the land north of the Wall. Sansa will rule the North. Tyrion will be the head of the Lannisters. Dany will possibly decide to commute between Essos and King's Landing - she has the means to do it, after all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MinscS2 Posted May 5, 2019 Share Posted May 5, 2019 What's the point of having a NW if the Wildlings are part of Westeros and if the WW's are gone though? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
starklover Posted May 5, 2019 Share Posted May 5, 2019 12 hours ago, LucyMormont said: Yes, she did. She listened their petitions and problems and tried to give them answers and solutions. But the problem here is that the noble families, were also normal people, and part of the population who she intended to rule. Some of them were in the ranks of the Sons of the Harpy, but others not. And when Barristan Selmy was murdered, she didn't care in finding out who was guilty or innocent when she ordered the heads of the noble families to be brought to her, and feed one to her dragons. She even said " Who is innocent? Maybe all of you are, maybe none of you are..." It was very, very disturbing. Actually I had forgotten how disturbing that scene was, not only for the act itself, but also her face and expression while seeing the dragons roast and tear that man apart.. She was under the advice of Daario after Barristan died, not the best adviser to "temper her impulses". Tyrion had not arrived yet, and Jorah if I remember well, had been fired and exiled. she was out for revenge so she didnt really care. revenge seekers make bad leaders. daario was love sick and would do anything for her. i dont care what everyone says it wasnt a good move on her part. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
starklover Posted May 5, 2019 Share Posted May 5, 2019 11 hours ago, Rose of Red Lake said: Yeah I bet Jon having to be Dany's watchdog at every moment so she can actually be less of a Targaryen is probably a living nightmare for him. it does seem like he is watching her. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordImp Posted May 5, 2019 Share Posted May 5, 2019 On 4/29/2019 at 6:06 PM, chatty83 said: Take the crown, Dany heel turns, Jon has to plunge her to death. Jons a broken man but sits on the throne alone, its good for Westeros and hes a good King but hes never the same again. Bitter-Sweet, follows the prophesies to an extent, its just not the way we thought they would pan out. Either that or they go War ofthe Roses and a new dynasty starts. This. Jon will kill the love of his life for some reason , and he'll become a broken man basically Aegon Dragonbane 2.0. It will be good for Westeros ( sweet) , but Jon is a broken and sad king ( bitter) . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MinscS2 Posted May 5, 2019 Share Posted May 5, 2019 I really don't see how a broken, bitter Jon as king will be good for Westeros. The only good qualities he has a regent is his sense of honor and the cliche idea of "reluctant leaders are the best leaders"(which is far from true). Add depression and bitterness to this, and he'd be passive king that's easily manipulated by whoever is around, be it Sansa, Tyrion, Varys or someone way more sinister. Heck, it almost sounds like the beginning to Aerys 2.0. (He was also a good king at first afaik. Then after he got captured, he became depressed and increasingly suspicious about those around him, and ultimately he went mad.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordImp Posted May 5, 2019 Share Posted May 5, 2019 I think the major difference between the show and book ending will be that Euron is the one controlling the south , not Cersei. Cersei will probably be around ( the tall pale woman in the Forsaken chapter) , but Euron will be the main threat . The books has set him up as a evil sorceror dragonlord , he is pretty much the Sarumann of Asoiaf. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordImp Posted May 5, 2019 Share Posted May 5, 2019 5 minutes ago, MinscS2 said: I really don't see how a broken, bitter Jon as king will be good for Westeros. The only good qualities he has a regent is his sense of honor and the cliche idea of "reluctant leaders are the best leaders"(which is far from true). Add depression and bitterness to this, and he'd be passive king that's easily manipulated by whoever is around, be it Sansa, Tyrion, Varys or someone way more sinister. Heck, it almost sounds like the beginning to Aerys 2.0. (He was also a good king at first afaik. Then after he got captured, he became depressed and increasingly suspicious about those around him, and ultimately he went mad.) Jon in imo will be far better ruler than Dany , so it will be better for Westeros with Jon. I agree that most of the ruling will probably be left to Tyrion who I think becomes Hand , and that is not necessesarily a bad thing . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jarl Halstein Posted May 5, 2019 Share Posted May 5, 2019 4 hours ago, MinscS2 said: What's the point of having a NW if the Wildlings are part of Westeros and if the WW's are gone though? There will still be wildlings north of the Wall who will never bend the knee. Some will be peaceful, some will be raiders. The Night's Watch will keep an eye on the would-be raiders as usual, and maybe act a bit like lawmen. The next commander will be an even 1,000, so you know there's gotta be a next one. But maybe there will be some change to the NW, like letting those who are there voluntarily quit after some years. Though probably not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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