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D2procon

So what does Jon Snow do now??

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2 minutes ago, Ser Wun Wun said:

Have you not watched the episode 4 preview?

Both dragons are alive and flying in it.  Dany's (still large) fleet is shown, she's still got some Unsullied, and the Northmen appeared to be cheering her. 

She has an army, and she has every intention of using it against Cersei.  Jon was with her on Dragonstone in one of the earlier teasers, so he's going with her for all this.  

After this episode, that is a surprise twist to me.

In this episide Dany is devastated. army is devasted, Jon's dragon fell and did not get up.  Jon is not with Dany at the end, not trying to protect her, but doing his own thing in the castle trying to protect Winterfell.

Sansa is playing a Cersei role in the north, being a queen, and just like Cersei is not fond of the Dragon Queen, she wants to kick her out, and very apt to get back Tyrion's (Lannister) loyalty.   She seems to be leaning for peace with Lannisters and against the Dragon Queen.

 

And in the end, Dany no longer has the claim to the throne, she knows it.

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25 minutes ago, D-Shiznit said:

If Jon, after everything Cersei has done, pushes for a deal with her, then he should just do the realm a favor and off himself. That level of stupidity is just flat out dangerous.

I agree, it's a ridiculous plot line...which is why I'm afraid D&D might do it.  

But I've been wrong on lot's of stuff about S8 so far.  In this case, I hope that trend keeps up, as I will be very relieved to be wrong.

1 minute ago, Hoo said:

After this episode, that is a surprise twist to me.

In this episide Dany is devastated. army is devasted, Jon's dragon fell and did not get up.  Jon is not with Dany at the end, not trying to protect her, but doing his own thing in the castle trying to protect Winterfell.

Sansa is playing a Cersei role in the north, being a queen, and just like Cersei is not fond of the Dragon Queen, she wants to kick her out, and very apt to get back Tyrion's (Lannister) loyalty.   She seems to be leaning for peace with Lannisters and against the Dragon Queen.

 

And in the end, Dany no longer has the claim to the throne, she knows it.

Here's the link for the preview:  Link

Dany definitely has not conceded her claim to the IT after Jon's parentage reveal, based on that preview.  I don't know how their relationship will go in E4, but he's with her on Dragonstone, so they aren't completely splitting.  

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Posted (edited)

I predict things aren't going to go so well for Daenerys. They made a big scene over showing how Jorah kept Daenerys in check in episode 2, and now he's dead.  The big reveal to everyone else of who Jon is hasn't come to light yet. Sam and Bran probably aren't going to be sitting on that information long.  I would bet Sansa would plot to crown him.

Daenerys is going to want to use her dragon on King's Landing, and she probably will.

Edited by longest night

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2 minutes ago, Ser Wun Wun said:

y definitely has not conceded her claim to the IT after Jon's parentage reveal, based on that preview.  I don't know how their relationship will go in E4, but he's with her on Dragonstone, so they aren't completely splitting.  

It makes sense she would be headed for Dragonstone.  She's no business left in the North.  She is out.  She can help Jon or Sansa, but as far as her claims go, she can only retreat home.

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1 hour ago, Fox Mulder said:

6 of the seven kingdoms: "What whitewalkers? What undead threat"? What Longnight it hasn't even snowed here? 

Wasn't it snowing in the Crownlands when Jaime was leaving King's Landing to go North?  Also, before that, the Maesters of Oldtown had officially announced that Winter Has Come by releasing white owls (or was it white ravens) to go to all the noble houses.

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Posted (edited)

Daenerys looks to be getting two new outfits next episode. One is a dark grey black outfit with red streaks through it like her white outfit, and another seems to be her red and black fire and blood outfit, the one she wears in the trailer when she's on Dragonstone.

Edited by longest night

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4 hours ago, D2procon said:

Does he go for the throne? Does he care? 

He may care, but he did pledge himself to Daenerys' cause, so he would be honor bound to support her claim. Even if his own claim is stronger, he does not have a history of going back on his word.

Sansa is fully aware that as long as Cercei is alive, neither the North nor the Starks are safe. So, it would make sense to ally with Daenerys and her dragons to march South and take out Cercei once and for all. Maybe it would be possible to drum up support from the Vale and the Riverlands. Maybe even from Dorne and the Stormlands.

What comes after? Sansa might want to go for the Iron Throne, but I suspect that she is sick and tired of the South. She is more likely to support a marriage between Jon and Daenerys, as that would leave her as the Warden of the North and Lady of Winterfell.

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6 hours ago, bloodsteel bitterraven said:

I honestly refuse to believe that the Others are done as a threat.  It really makes no sense having Cersei be the show's true villain.  This is pathetic writing!

Agree!

They built up Azor ahai/ptwp and jons story line to such an extend that I was expecting a poetic showdown between Jon (or Dany) and the NK. 

I honestly feel the writers (maybe includine grrm) dropped the ball. Perhaps they decided to change who ends the NK? Maybe they realised that most fans had predictions about Azor Ahai and wanted to throw in a "plot twist" ... bad bad writig 

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7 hours ago, Damon_Tor said:

God, at this point who even cares. The story just ended. Do we need three episodes of epilogue?

You are right. It's all downhill from here. It's just the old chess game back in focus. 

It's probably going to come to Dany's attention that her army is wiped out. She is in love with her nephew who has a stronger claim and more support from the surviving people in the north. Jon won't want to claim it but probably will be pushed to do so to fight against Cersei and win over her supporters. Maybe. I'm hit and miss when it comes to predictions. 

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Am I the only one who thinks of Azor as a Jesus-like figure, who you chose to believe in or not, or you choose to believe a specific type?

 

Jesus might've existed, but he certainly didn't turn water into wine. Likewise AA might've existed, but the stories about him piercing his wife's heart with Lightbringer? Why must those stories be any more than a way to decorate a legend? 

 

Personally, I don't buy into the AA/TPTWP theories/prophecy because I don't believe in that kind of stuff in real life. I know that that might sound like a daft thing to say given that it is a fictional fantasy series, however, it is still heavily grounded in reality all the same. And the reality of religion (and by extention, TPTWP) is that it is not truth. 

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9 hours ago, D-Shiznit said:

Return the favor to Dany by helping her get the throne in return for her support for saving the North.

Exactly that. This is what is supposed to happen. 

They won the Great War together. Now they have to win the Last War against Cersei, Euron and the Golden Company.

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1 hour ago, Kafka's Coat said:

Am I the only one who thinks of Azor as a Jesus-like figure, who you chose to believe in or not, or you choose to believe a specific type?

 

Jesus might've existed, but he certainly didn't turn water into wine. Likewise AA might've existed, but the stories about him piercing his wife's heart with Lightbringer? Why must those stories be any more than a way to decorate a legend? 

 

Personally, I don't buy into the AA/TPTWP theories/prophecy because I don't believe in that kind of stuff in real life. I know that that might sound like a daft thing to say given that it is a fictional fantasy series, however, it is still heavily grounded in reality all the same. And the reality of religion (and by extention, TPTWP) is that it is not truth. 

That's not the issue.  This story has always been about how the throne is irrelevant, compared to the existential threat of the white walkers.  And now they're making it all about the throne?

9 minutes ago, Kajjo said:

Exactly that. This is what is supposed to happen. 

They won the Great War together. Now they have to win the Last War against Cersei, Euron and the Golden Company.

So the last war is about winning a throne they could easily lose in 15 years like Robert did, if they don't have the right tax policy, like George always says in his interviews?  The last war should have been about survival.

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8 hours ago, Hoo said:

Dany's out.  Her army is wiped out, and she has no title to the throne.  She's a queen no more, just like that.  Her best hope is that Aegon still loves her.

Oh, just you wait. She'll somehow march down to King's Landing with some new full army that was created out of thin air. Despite 99% of the people at Winterfell dying, she will march with a full army. Armies in this show are created like soldiers in video games like Command and Conquer or Age of Empires.

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1 minute ago, bloodsteel bitterraven said:

So the last war is about winning a throne they could easily lose in 15 years like Robert did, if they don't have the right tax policy, like George always says in his interviews?  The last war should have been about survival.

"Should"?

Life and stories don't follow "should".

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Posted (edited)
2 minutes ago, Kajjo said:

"Should"?

Life and stories don't follow "should".

That's bad storytelling then.  We don't need to watch 3 episodes of them fighting Cersei and Euron, while the Night King was dealt with in one episode as if he was the villain of the week on Smallville.

Edited by bloodsteel bitterraven

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Just now, bloodsteel bitterraven said:

We don't need to watch 3 episodes of them fighting Cersei and Euron.

We don't know we will. Wait and see.

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They will win the war together and then they will rule together if they both live. If one or both of them die it really doesn't matter because if Cersei or Euron or the Gregor zombie or Qyburn or the Golden Company kill any of them it will be utterly meaningless. Neither Jon nor Dany have any connection with those people in the books, meaning such show deaths would be utterly devoid of meaning.

Chances are pretty high, I think, that Dany and Jon have their 'big moment' overcoming the fake tension when she has won the Iron Throne and realizes that she doesn't want it as much as she wants Jon. So she will offer it to him and then they will decide to rule jointly. End of story.

2 minutes ago, bloodsteel bitterraven said:

That's not the issue.  This story has always been about how the throne is irrelevant, compared to the existential threat of the white walkers.  And now they're making it all about the throne?

So the last war is about winning a throne they could easily lose in 15 years like Robert did, if they don't have the right tax policy, like George always says in his interviews?  The last war should have been about survival.

What did you expect? From the moment they decided to leave Cersei alive and on the fucking throne with her not helping them fight the zombies it was clear that she would be the final boss. Who else?

And I'm not sure the books will end it on the fight against the Others. Yes, that will the grand finale, but there might be some clean-up coming afterwards, sort of like the Scouring of the Shire in LotR. If Euron or Cersei or Littlefinger or some other shitty people survive the coming battles in the books and deliberately decide to stay out of the Others war, keeping their strength back (or only partially back) then they will be able try to stab the victorious leaders of mankind in the back. And this is a story George might intend to tell.

Not in the ridiculous way in the show, of course, but in some fashion.

That the show doesn't even remotely accurately reflect the KL plot can be drawn from George's old quote after Tommen took the throne that multiple people are going to sit the Iron Throne before the end - but the show just gave us Cersei. And it doesn't count if Cersei is toppled and we then go immediately to whoever is on the chair in the end.

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9 hours ago, bloodsteel bitterraven said:

I honestly refuse to believe that the Others are done as a threat.  It really makes no sense having Cersei be the show's true villain.  This is pathetic writing!

Actually people said this before the episode 3.

 

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