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D2procon

So what does Jon Snow do now??

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From the trailer for e4 looks like he is off somewhere with davos ..Hope it's not to meet cersei....bit worried what they r going to do with him.next...No celebratory drinks with dany and the lords.  I feel they have stole his ending with arya doing the stabby.

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With Melisandre dead, I wonder if the "magic" that resurrected him starts to wear off a bit and he becomes a half undead like his uncle Benjen.  Then he self exiles himself way up north to "make sure the NK never returns" or some other heroic sounding deed.

 

It would be the bittersweet twist/ending that has been promised for so long.  

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Ah, here is the GRRM quote: "The story’s over, and they destroyed the Ring — but he didn’t write 'and now they lived happily ever after.' Instead, they went home and home was all fucked up. The evil guys had burned down some of the woods; a fascist-like tyranny had taken over."

 

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Guys remember not all prophecies have to be fulfilled. GRRM even pointed out that not every prophecy is true. Many prophecies have turned out to be false and the few times they happen to be coincidentally true, they are held up as examples only in hindsight. GRRM Even said

 

"Prophecy is a staple element in Fantasy, but it's tricky...You want to play with the notion of prophecies coming true but in an unexpected way. You want to be unpredictable about it. Shakespeare is the ultimate example of that — when the forest of Birnam Wood coming to Dunsinane Castle, MacBeth will fall. Everybody laughs — how can the forest come to the castle. [Malcolm] came camouflaged with branches and so on. Also, during the War of the Roses, one of the lords was prophesied that he would die at a certain castle. So he always took pains to avoid that castle. But then in the First Battle of St Albans, he was wounded and died outside a pub that had that castle on its pub sign. You have to look at prophecies carefully and look at the weasel-wording. Maggy the Frog tells Cersei a prophecy, but could Cersei make it happen through her efforts to avoid it?"

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2 hours ago, Rose of Red Lake said:

Ah, here is the GRRM quote: "The story’s over, and they destroyed the Ring — but he didn’t write 'and now they lived happily ever after.' Instead, they went home and home was all fucked up. The evil guys had burned down some of the woods; a fascist-like tyranny had taken over."

 

For once I'm gonna agree with you. There are some heavy LotR-inspiration going on.

Battle for Minas Tirith and Battle of the Black Gate = Battle for Winterfell. The big evil: Sauron / Nightking dies.
After this comes The Scouring of the Shire = Battle for King's Landing. The lesser evil: Saruman / Cersei dies. 

The only reason that the Scouring of the Shire ends up being somewhat tense is because the hobbits have to do it all on their own: all of their allies their armies are elsewhere. Not sure how that part will end up being portrayed in GoT though.

 

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12 hours ago, Lord Varys said:

But wasn't it supposed to adapt ASoIaF? And didn't people say the ending would be essentially be the same?

I don't think so. No one ever said they'd be the same. Not DD, not GRRM. All they said was that GRRM let DD know the ending. DD are free to do whatever they wanted. Considering the current situation in the North in the most recent book I would even say it would probably be the Boltons who united the North against WW. Jon's role would be so different than the show that is very unlikely to lead to the same ending.

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16 minutes ago, DirePenguin said:

I don't think so. No one ever said they'd be the same. Not DD, not GRRM. All they said was that GRRM let DD know the ending. DD are free to do whatever they wanted. Considering the current situation in the North in the most recent book I would even say it would probably be the Boltons who united the North against WW. Jon's role would be so different than the show that is very unlikely to lead to the same ending.

What? You do know about the northern conspiracy, right?

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22 minutes ago, DirePenguin said:

I don't think so. No one ever said they'd be the same. Not DD, not GRRM. All they said was that GRRM let DD know the ending. DD are free to do whatever they wanted. Considering the current situation in the North in the most recent book I would even say it would probably be the Boltons who united the North against WW. Jon's role would be so different than the show that is very unlikely to lead to the same ending.

I completely expect Jon to leave the nights watch and go retake winterfell after they bring him back to life as there really is nothing else for him to do at the wall.

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Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, D2procon said:

Guys remember not all prophecies have to be fulfilled. GRRM even pointed out that not every prophecy is true. Many prophecies have turned out to be false and the few times they happen to be coincidentally true, they are held up as examples only in hindsight. GRRM Even said

 

"Prophecy is a staple element in Fantasy, but it's tricky...You want to play with the notion of prophecies coming true but in an unexpected way. You want to be unpredictable about it. Shakespeare is the ultimate example of that — when the forest of Birnam Wood coming to Dunsinane Castle, MacBeth will fall. Everybody laughs — how can the forest come to the castle. [Malcolm] came camouflaged with branches and so on. Also, during the War of the Roses, one of the lords was prophesied that he would die at a certain castle. So he always took pains to avoid that castle. But then in the First Battle of St Albans, he was wounded and died outside a pub that had that castle on its pub sign. You have to look at prophecies carefully and look at the weasel-wording. Maggy the Frog tells Cersei a prophecy, but could Cersei make it happen through her efforts to avoid it?"

Nothing in that quote suggests that prophecies don't have to be fulfilled. If anything it suggests the opposite. A point of prophecies is that they're foreshadowing, in the form of a puzzle, that announces itself. So if they don't come true then they didn't actually foreshadow anything.

Edited by rustythesmith

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Posted (edited)
18 hours ago, Kafka's Coat said:

Am I the only one who thinks of Azor as a Jesus-like figure, who you chose to believe in or not, or you choose to believe a specific type?

 

Jesus might've existed, but he certainly didn't turn water into wine. Likewise AA might've existed, but the stories about him piercing his wife's heart with Lightbringer? Why must those stories be any more than a way to decorate a legend? 

 

Personally, I don't buy into the AA/TPTWP theories/prophecy because I don't believe in that kind of stuff in real life. I know that that might sound like a daft thing to say given that it is a fictional fantasy series, however, it is still heavily grounded in reality all the same. And the reality of religion (and by extention, TPTWP) is that it is not truth. 

But someone did literally pierce something which caused an evil force to collapse. It's a rug-pull to make it not the promised prince. 

Do you believe Jon isn't alive, for instance, given that he was revived by a priestess saying prayers? Or that the Hound didn't see the arrowhead mountain because visions aren't possible? I don't get this religion no, magic yes thing. 

Edited by darmody

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15 hours ago, rustythesmith said:

Fans like to say that Martin is anti-war, but he isn't. He's anti-unnecessary war. He's said that there are some wars such as WWII where there is a very clear villain who needs to be stopped.

Russia?

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15 hours ago, AGS Martell said:

Whatever Jon does, I hope we don't get another invulnerable hero scene with him once they fight the Lannister army. I don't think I could stand watching him evade and kill 100 soldiers all by himself AGAIN

But at least he came off as retarded. You can always count on Jon to be intellectually vulnerable. 

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14 hours ago, chatty83 said:

Either that or they go War ofthe Roses and a new dynasty starts.

King Hot of House Pie. 

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1 hour ago, longest night said:

What? You do know about the northern conspiracy, right?

Oh if we have enough books left for that conspiracy to play out before winter hits. I hoping GRRM won't split this into even more books.

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1 hour ago, DirePenguin said:

I don't think so. No one ever said they'd be the same. Not DD, not GRRM. All they said was that GRRM let DD know the ending. DD are free to do whatever they wanted. Considering the current situation in the North in the most recent book I would even say it would probably be the Boltons who united the North against WW. Jon's role would be so different than the show that is very unlikely to lead to the same ending.

GRRM said his ending will not be much different, it will only be different on certain secondary characters in that "60 Minutes" interview. Unless DD purposefully changed major stuff after their meeting.

I think even if the same exact shit happens in the books, it will be more fulfilling cos the characters will have much more than couple of useless sentences to say to each other in the books. f.i. Jon & Sansa will have much more to talk about than old nan's kidney pies.

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Jon should have died figfhting the NK.

Show Jon is boring and has no relevance other than being Dany's lover.

I'd rather see him dead if it means we avoid the cringy,predictable "Jon and Dany rule Westeros together and restore Targ dynasty" ending.

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GRRM said his ending will not be much different from TV show, but the battle of WF was not the ending - so i guess they have improvised a lot here. 

I think by the end of the show only part of the main players will be left alive and this group will be more or less the same as in the ending of the book. So in a way all parties can claim that the TV ending is consistent with the Book ending.  So say if Danny dies both in the book and in the show - D&D can say they followed the books even if the circumstances and culprits of her death are completely different here and there.

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Posted (edited)
On 4/29/2019 at 8:24 AM, Ciglon said:

Not remotely true. In the "Inside the Episode" segment Dan and Dave say they knew Arya was going to be the one to kill the Night King for about 3 years (ie, not when GRRM told them his plans for the end of the book series). I mean, the Night King doesn't even exist in the book series at the moment, so this whole war against the Others might play out differently in the book series.

 

Honestly these people (D&D) when they talk after each episode make it so much worst than it is already. Don't they have a PR team to tell them to shut up? Or are we 4 years old and we can't understand the script so they have to explain it to us? I know they do it for promotion reasons and to show off their faces but every single time we quote them its for the bad not for the good. 

Edited by Nightwish

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24 minutes ago, King Jon Snow Stark said:

Recap it! Is that how Jon becomes king of the north in the books?

one idea of it yes.

the basic idea is that its very likely that Rob wrote a letter that legitimized Jon before the red wedding and made him the heir of winterfell and king after him (he and Cat about who would take over if he died because as far as he knew all his family was either dead of controlled by the enemy) . the northern conspiracy is the belief that the northern houses are working on finding the letter and set Jon up as king to over throw the boltons. 

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