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Aerys Blackfyre

[spoilers] So, in the end, the PTWP...

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Why does there have to be a prophecy that must be true and be fulfilled? GRRM is an atheist. Its is far more probable he would write about self fulfilling prophecies  that drive flawed characters to obsessions and affect their actions, rather than true, divine ones.

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5 hours ago, One-Eyed Raven said:

Wait, really?

So...not a great idea for the NK to have a gap in his armor right there.

Mike Tyson's Punch-Out in the end. Fantastic.

So, the Night King had this one weakness, right in the open, that no one knew about, that Arya just knew how to utilize?

That's "Aim for the horn" level of bull!

Someone tell showrunners that the saying goes "learn from the best", not "learn from the memes".

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Posted (edited)
20 hours ago, Dex drako said:

this was meant to be a doomsday event and it get taken care of in one night (episode) and we've just meant to go back to caring about who sits on the throne again....

I agree it's pretty darn stupid. So now just back to people killing people; what we've been subjected to since the beginning. Based on how fast they wrapped this up, I figure it's just going to be a bloodbath that involves all the main characters slaughtering each other. Cersei will be dethroned; tons of main characters will die, someone will take the throne, etc. Can't say I'm excited to even see the ending.

Quote

this was meant to be a doomsday event

The fight with the undead should have went for days, weeks and months, as the living retreated to the south. The fact that White Walkers die instantaneously when their skin makes contact with Valyrian steel or dragon glass, is pretty stupid. Better still, the hive mind himself is susceptible to this very thing.

Edited by Nihiloth90

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20 hours ago, ferrelhadley said:

Born amid salt and smoke: the mines of Valyria? Perhaps the Faceless Men were Azor Ahai and Arya was the weapon they forged, Lightbringer. 
Perhaps prophecies are sometimes just nonsense. 

Couldn't we have been shown someone teaching Arya something that came in handy with the Night King's hand around her throat, rather than making her wander around the city blind?

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19 hours ago, King Jon Snow Stark said:

He didn’t need to. His plan actually worked this time. 

His plan didn't involved the Red Witch (whose boob he once touched) or Ninja Turtle Arya, and they were pretty much the whole thing besides Bran sitting outside. 

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15 hours ago, Squall said:

I'm a bit puzzled. Wasn't Melisandre originally going to Dany because she could be the PTWP? I have no idea which darkness is still lurking, the wickedness of humans is impossible to extinguish. That evil is Cersei.

I guess they just keep silent about it. It's better than shoehorning it in at the last bit when some nobody makes a toast to the PTWP and the viewer goes "what?'

Actually, she went to Danny to hook her up with Jon. 

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Posted (edited)
5 hours ago, Lord Varys said:

There is, at this point, no reason to believe that the Others give a damn about Valyrian steel in the books. At this point they have only been harmed/killed by obsidian and there are ancient stories that 'dragonsteel' can kill them as well.

If Valyrian steel were a version of dragonsteel then this could likely kill them, too - effectively implying that dragons should be able to do the trick, too, considering they are the things this dragonsteel is named after.

Also, it is quite clear that the fact that obsidian is 'frozen fire' - i.e. magically fiery/hot in some sense - is the explanation why the Others are affected by that.

Sure, maybe. My point is, that we don't know it yet, do we? I personally firmly believe that dragon fire will be a very effective weapon against the wights, but not against the Others. That is why GRRM has introduced Valyrian steel imo. And that is why they are so rare, since it must make the fight against the Others very hard to win. There must be more to this weapon than just dragon fire that we yet don't know. Otherwise it would  be a rather simple task to kill the Others, since they can not fly. I don't think that the show has introduced that idea by themself. But, alas we don't know.

Edited by T and A

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Nihiloth90 said:

I agree it's pretty darn stupid. So now just back to people killing people; what we've been subjected to since the beginning. Based on how fast they wrapped this up, I figure it's just going to be a bloodbath that involves all the main characters slaughtering each other. Cersei will be dethroned; tons of main characters will die, someone will take the throne, etc. Can't say I'm excited to even see the ending.

The fight with the undead should have went for days, weeks and months, as the living retreated to the south. The fact that White Walkers die instantaneously when their skin makes contact with Valyrian steel or dragon glass, is pretty stupid. Better still, the hive mind himself is susceptible to this very thing.

I assume we are going Varys lead them in tunnels and dies, a Golden Company betrayal, Danny or Jon hostage situation and Cercei demanding a TRIAL BY SEVEN.

we already have the numbers  for Danny`s team: Grey Worm or Jon depends on how they deal with Grey Worm, Brienne, Podrick, Tormund, Clegane, Arya and Yara or Jaimie depends on what side Jaimie picks.

Cercei team: Mountain, Euron, maybe Bronn, some iron born, kings guard or golden company.

Edited by Pacala

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Posted (edited)
11 hours ago, Red Dragon10 said:

Maybe the NK was arrogant, but it still doesn't explain how she ran past all the wights AND the WW.  She isn't superhuman.  If she had super skills, she would have been using them in the library.  To me, unless there is further explanation, it doesn't really make much sense that she got as close to the NK as she did. 

I might be wrong (I usually am) but I interpreted it, as she face swapped (like she does) one of the NK's personal WW guard, and that's how she got so close? screen panned to him just before she ninja jumped to the NK. 

Again might be looking into things too much

Edited by Silpher
.

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... wasn’t anybody. The show will just do shit and then forget about it or shit on their own shit. 

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Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, darmody said:

His plan didn't involved the Red Witch (whose boob he once touched) or Ninja Turtle Arya, and they were pretty much the whole thing besides Bran sitting outside. 

Arya was in the War room. Next to him. She knew about the trap. The plan was to draw the night king in and kill him. The plan worked. At no point was it said Jon would be the only one to kill him. It was a very vague plan. 

Edited by King Jon Snow Stark

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13 hours ago, T and A said:

Valyrian steel is not just steel forged with Dragonfire. If it were, the Taragaryens would have made 100 of them in Westeros after the doom. Until now, we have no idea how Valyrian Steel is made in the books. So it is not illogical that Dragonfire doesn't harm them, but Valyrian steel does. 

 

my theory (and I've also read something about it somewhere) is that Valyrian steel is steel mixed with dragonglass (and possibly forged through dragonfire); that's why it kills whights and White Walkers

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4 hours ago, Silpher said:

I might be wrong (I usually am) but I interpreted it, as she face swapped (like she does) one of the NK's personal WW guard, and that's how she got so close? screen panned to him just before she ninja jumped to the NK. 

Again might be looking into things too much

I thought that breeze going by that WW was just Arya zooming by.  Doesn't preparing a face take time?  And how would you get it off the WW, without the body shattering (since you'd obviously have to kill it to get the face)? 

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5 hours ago, T and A said:

Sure, maybe. My point is, that we don't know it yet, do we? I personally firmly believe that dragon fire will be a very effective weapon against the wights, but not against the Others. That is why GRRM has introduced Valyrian steel imo. And that is why they are so rare, since it must make the fight against the Others very hard to win. There must be more to this weapon than just dragon fire that we yet don't know. Otherwise it would  be a rather simple task to kill the Others, since they can not fly. I don't think that the show has introduced that idea by themself. But, alas we don't know.

Well, one thing the show got very right in last episode is the blizzard. The dragons won't be of much used in that. Perhaps the books will have the good guys - Bran, various red priests, other sorcerers, etc. - do their best to push against the bad weather and the cold brought by the Others. But if they can't do that then the dragons should be pretty much useless in any great battle started by the Others.

At this point Valyrian steel is just a super steel. There is nothing magical about it aside from its magical forging and its super lightness and strength.

Even if Valyrian steel were to turn out to be lethal to the Others, there is much obsidian there than Valyrian steel, so it should be the preferred weapon against them. I mean, chances are about zero that they get more than a couple of dozen Valyrian steel swords. Perhaps they will have a hundred or so by the time the last battle - hopefully far down in the South - is going to be fought, since at this time pretty much everybody in Westeros should know and believe that this is a very serious threat.

But, in the end, there is pretty much no chance that it will often or at all come to hand-to-hand combat where anyone could use a sword or a dagger on an Other. They do have a giant zombie army for a reason - it allows them to lead from behind to never or rarely actually encounter the vermin they are exterminating. Think about the circumstances under which they openly attacked Waymar Royce and later Sam and Small Paul. They were alone in the middle of nowhere, completely helpless, with pretty much no chance that they could defeat them.

Once the Others realize that their enemies have figured out a way to kill them they will no longer engage in direct combat - and they may already have figured that out considering that Sam did slay an Other, something the Others must have realized by now. The dead Other never came back to his peers.

In addition to dragonglass (also obviously a name evoking dragons) wildfire should also be a very effective way to kill the Others. It burns nearly as hot as dragonfire and it doesn't go out. There is a reason why George decided to introduce that particular substance into his story. In fact, if there is ever a trench like there was in the last episode it would, in the books, be likely filled with wildfire and thus actually be a barrier the Others cannot cross. But, of course, throwing jars filled with wildfire on the Others also would be very effective indeed.

But there would be really no point to the dragons if the Others were actually immune to them, no reason for them to be in the story at all.

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Ice is defeated (it wasnt by fire alone) so now its time for fire to rise as a threat. The prophecy was always assumed to be a good thing which should be questioned. Prophecies people eagerly want to happen to the point where they are forcing them are probably going to have the opposite effect. Looking at you, Mel.

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6 hours ago, Silpher said:

I might be wrong (I usually am) but I interpreted it, as she face swapped (like she does) one of the NK's personal WW guard, and that's how she got so close? screen panned to him just before she ninja jumped to the NK. 

Again might be looking into things too much

No, but for me it's believable that she learned enough 'silent assassin' skills from the Faceless Man to stealth up like a ninja.

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9 hours ago, King Jon Snow Stark said:

Arya was in the War room. Next to him. She knew about the trap. The plan was to draw the night king in and kill him. The plan worked. At no point was it said Jon would be the only one to kill him. It was a very vague plan. 

Indeed it was vague. Possibly because the explicitness of the plan before Battle of the Bastards allowed us to see how stupid Battle of the Bastards was. 

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