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What was Bran doing the whole time?

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7 hours ago, MoonKnight21 said:

He was streaming Avengers Endgame 

Close. He was streaming GoT S8E3!

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This is one of the many annoyances about the EP. 

Considering they really have failed to give Bran a purpose/establish his power I was shocked they just had him warg ravens pointlessly(unless the idea is that he was taunting the NK with them which would be downright goofy). If you asked me two seasons ago what I thought  Brans role in the final battle vs the White Walkers would be, I'd think him going back in time to alter things to be in place to defeat the threat, or warging every animal in the north or something equally preposterous. 

But alas the NK and Bran plot is totally flacid. All that build up was for naught. 

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1 hour ago, kevinbgwrites said:

This is one of the many annoyances about the EP. 

Considering they really have failed to give Bran a purpose/establish his power I was shocked they just had him warg ravens pointlessly(unless the idea is that he was taunting the NK with them which would be downright goofy). If you asked me two seasons ago what I thought  Brans role in the final battle vs the White Walkers would be, I'd think him going back in time to alter things to be in place to defeat the threat, or warging every animal in the north or something equally preposterous. 

But alas the NK and Bran plot is totally flacid. All that build up was for naught. 

Agree!

Even something really brief, in keeping with the lure plot and episode would do.

For example- if Bran made a semi-successfully warging attempt on Viserion which is enough to shake/buck the NK off so he falls into/near the godswood instead of the NK just falling due to the dragon battle alone.

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I was reading a post on another forum about the absurdity of what David and Dan created in their incarnation of the NightKing. The main point was that they created so many attributes for the NightKing and how he was created and how important he was and how impossible he is to stop , that they in a sense painted themselves into a corner so they added this big red ridiculous button to his power and the threat of his undead army that immediately removes them from the chess board with his death. They completely ignored the inconvenient issue of the others preceding the Nightking by hundreds of years. The Nightking was a lord commander of the Nights watch who fell in love with an other, sure they added that vision Bran had of leaf creating the Nightking in the age of heros by shoving obsidian into his chest btw David Benioff in the behind the scenes states that Arya had to stab the Nightsking in the same place to undo him and the magic that created him for good. I guess that clown doesn't even watch the show anymore because as you all know she stabbed him in the gut. The main issue and plot hole I have with all of this is this revelation Bran came out with in episode 2. The nightking wants to kill the "3eyedraven" he has tried before. The first thing that came to mind was Brendan Rivers why would he have allowed Bran to enter his underground lair if he could see that Bran would get him killed and himself marked by the Nightking. I suppose you could argue that he was preoccupied by a lot of things going on but if the Nightking only had two goals and the first thing on his list has always been the distruction of the "3eyeraven" wouldn't the most logical thing be to look through Brans future to make sure he doesn't mess up. Why all of a sudden did the NightKing decide he wanted to kill Bran himself and how would Bran know that? The NightKing had no problem with sending his forces to kill the Brendan Rivers or the old "3eyedraven" on the show. His forces seemed pretty determined to kill Bran when they chased him to the "3eyedravens lair" and later stormed through . There was no ' hold him there guys until I get there and slowly and methodically pull out a weapon to stab him' The other massive glaring problem now that we know the full extent of the Nightkings power minus how he managed to see Bran and mark him was he a greenseer? never explained. Bran sent a message to Jon on dragonstone telling him that the undead army is moving towards eastwatch. He couldn't of warned Jon that all he was going to do was gift the Nightking with an icedragon to break the wall? He couldn't of informed Jon that Cersei wasn't ever going to help them anyway, nah , why waste all of that valuable Raven scroll. The only way he could redeem himself would be if he was playing a darker bigger game. What if Bran knew it would all play out the way it did. Dany's forces severely depleted all it would cost to put Aegon on the Iron throne were the lives of a few thousand northmen and Theon (I burned two orphan boys bc of my Daddy issues) Greyjoy and the self respect of one starfleet officer , oops wrong show.

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What, exactly, was Bran supposed to be doing.  He's basically a library in a wheelchair.

There's never been any indication that he's got all these superpowers that some people wish he had.  He can warg, but we've only seen him warg lesser creatures and Hodor.  Jon and Arya can warg, too.

There have been many other 3ec's and they didn't make some huge impact on the world, either.  As far as we know, Bloodraven spent a century embedded in a tree and didn't have much of an impact on the rest of the world.

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13 minutes ago, Vuron said:

What, exactly, was Bran supposed to be doing.  He's basically a library in a wheelchair.

There's never been any indication that he's got all these superpowers that some people wish he had.  He can warg, but we've only seen him warg lesser creatures and Hodor.  Jon and Arya can warg, too.

There have been many other 3ec's and they didn't make some huge impact on the world, either.  As far as we know, Bloodraven spent a century embedded in a tree and didn't have much of an impact on the rest of the world.

He is a skinchanger and a powerful greenseer not to split hairs but that is what is established in the books. The show introduced us to the concept that Bran can alter the past as he melted the mind of Hodor. I believe that is something George always intended to reveal in the final two books but what would be the point in adding this unique and powerful ability other than a cheap dramatic twist, George doesn't tend to write these things only for it to amount to nothing relevant to the overall story. We can only assume that David and Dan changed this story to fit their own ending.

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What was Bran doing the whole time? Nothing of course. Like usual. I think at this point it's pretty clear that the 3ER is evil because I can't see any other explanation for his actions. Other than D&D are so incompetent they unintentionally made him evil. But thinking about it, we see that the 3ER doesn't care about human life. So he doesn't serve any agenda that is concerned with the preservation of human life. In fact the only concern of the 3ER is his own survival.

This episode made it clear once and for all that the 3ER can see the future (hence giving the dagger to Arya). So why did he not prevent all the death that was meaningless? He exterminated the Children. He could have stopped the Wight hunt mission last Season because that let the army of the dead into Westeros. He could have prevented Ned Umber dying a senseless death. Heck everyone that lived at Last Hearth could have been saved. He knew the dead would rise in the Stark crypts. He could have saved Theon. He could have nipped the pointless Sansa/Arya conflict in the bud because there were far more important things to worry about. He probably also could have prevented most of the death in this battle. He doesn't care though, to him it's just human meat shields used to protect him. Which makes him evil to me...

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It's probably coincidental, but in the latest episode, the NK didn't "activate" until Bran went into 3ER-mode. 

Food for thought.  

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My hope is that what  he was doing all that time is finding Arya and setting up the kill (how?  Not sure.  Warging into her does not seem possible/a good idea given Hodor).  It seems clear to me that she had been up the tree waiting.  I wish that they had at least used Theon to position NK closer to Bran/the tree (somehow).  My hubby thinks that Theon was purely a delaying tactic to setup for Arya.  In terms of how she could be there and he not notice?  I'm choosing to believe that her MAD NINJA ASSASSIN SKILLS are supernatural (given the borrowing of faces--yes, they are).  Jon attempting to sneak across a snowy battle field in black is not that stealthy (a big objection elsewhere to the idea that she was hiding in the tree).

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3 hours ago, darksellsword said:

He is a skinchanger and a powerful greenseer not to split hairs but that is what is established in the books. The show introduced us to the concept that Bran can alter the past as he melted the mind of Hodor. I believe that is something George always intended to reveal in the final two books but what would be the point in adding this unique and powerful ability other than a cheap dramatic twist, George doesn't tend to write these things only for it to amount to nothing relevant to the overall story. We can only assume that David and Dan changed this story to fit their own ending.

But there is a point to it--it taught Bran about the danger and paradox involved in interfering with the timeline. Because he learned that lesson, Bran did not interfere (much) in the timeline he foresaw to defeat the Night King. That's why he had to just sit there, rather than telling everyone what was going to happen.

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Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, darksellsword said:

I was reading a post on another forum about the absurdity of what David and Dan created in their incarnation of the NightKing. The main point was that they created so many attributes for the NightKing and how he was created and how important he was and how impossible he is to stop , that they in a sense painted themselves into a corner so they added this big red ridiculous button to his power and the threat of his undead army that immediately removes them from the chess board with his death. They completely ignored the inconvenient issue of the others preceding the Nightking by hundreds of years. The Nightking was a lord commander of the Nights watch who fell in love with an other, sure they added that vision Bran had of leaf creating the Nightking in the age of heros by shoving obsidian into his chest btw David Benioff in the behind the scenes states that Arya had to stab the Nightsking in the same place to undo him and the magic that created him for good. I guess that clown doesn't even watch the show anymore because as you all know she stabbed him in the gut. The main issue and plot hole I have with all of this is this revelation Bran came out with in episode 2. The nightking wants to kill the "3eyedraven" he has tried before. The first thing that came to mind was Brendan Rivers why would he have allowed Bran to enter his underground lair if he could see that Bran would get him killed and himself marked by the Nightking. I suppose you could argue that he was preoccupied by a lot of things going on but if the Nightking only had two goals and the first thing on his list has always been the distruction of the "3eyeraven" wouldn't the most logical thing be to look through Brans future to make sure he doesn't mess up. Why all of a sudden did the NightKing decide he wanted to kill Bran himself and how would Bran know that? The NightKing had no problem with sending his forces to kill the Brendan Rivers or the old "3eyedraven" on the show. His forces seemed pretty determined to kill Bran when they chased him to the "3eyedravens lair" and later stormed through . There was no ' hold him there guys until I get there and slowly and methodically pull out a weapon to stab him' The other massive glaring problem now that we know the full extent of the Nightkings power minus how he managed to see Bran and mark him was he a greenseer? never explained. Bran sent a message to Jon on dragonstone telling him that the undead army is moving towards eastwatch. He couldn't of warned Jon that all he was going to do was gift the Nightking with an icedragon to break the wall? He couldn't of informed Jon that Cersei wasn't ever going to help them anyway, nah , why waste all of that valuable Raven scroll. The only way he could redeem himself would be if he was playing a darker bigger game. What if Bran knew it would all play out the way it did. Dany's forces severely depleted all it would cost to put Aegon on the Iron throne were the lives of a few thousand northmen and Theon (I burned two orphan boys bc of my Daddy issues) Greyjoy and the self respect of one starfleet officer , oops wrong show.

Nice observations there. The thing is we don’t know what’s wrong, is it the lousy script or is it Bran? 

Bran gets to my nerves quite some time now but I always felt reserved due to the bad script that doesn’t allow too much thinking going on. For example you mentioned Night king wanting to kill Bran one way or another when he was in the cave and made an attack. Now he says the Night king wants to find him personally and uses himself as bait. Can be a script inconsistency. 

I don’t know if he can see the future probably not. He can travel in the past though and in the present but his gifts are a disaster. He send a message to John to alert him about the dead. So? aren’t they gathering and walking around all the time? Don’t they make attacks? Isn’t the wall supposed to protect them all? Wasn’t that the point of getting the widlings inside the wall? It doesn’t make sense. 

 

Edited by Nightwish

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, EndOfTheRoad said:

  My hubby thinks that Theon was purely a delaying tactic to setup for Arya.  In terms of how she could be there and he not notice?  

I also believe that. Arya leaves after Melissandre puts the idea into the head to go for the boss and there are many scenes in between so she has time to be where  Bran is. Bran is probably watching the battle as a crow thus seeing also Arya arriving and she hides while Theon is busy defending Bran. When Bran comes back knows about Arya but leaves Theon to defend him as a tactic move to show that he is defenseless after that. But he is not. This is my interpretation at least. 

Edited by Nightwish

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45 minutes ago, Nightwish said:

I also believe that. Arya leaves after Melissandre puts the idea into the head to go for the boss and there are many scenes in between so she has time to be where  Bran is. Bran is probably watching the battle as a crow thus seeing also Arya arriving and she hides while Theon is busy defending Bran. When Bran comes back knows about Arya but leaves Theon to defend him as a tactic move to show that he is defenseless after that. But he is not. This is my interpretation at least. 

I agree with nearly all of that except for the warging the crows. I believe that he warged the crows purely to allow the Nightking to know exactly where he is as he always planned to do. I think Bran knew he was luring the NightKing to his death at Aryas hand that's why he gave Arya the dagger and that's why he said to Theon I'm going now as a warning that Theon's doom was impending. If you remember Bran's conversation with Meera Reed after they arrived safely to Winterfell she was upset that Bran wasn't showing much gratitude for everything she had done for him and for everyone that had died to keep him safe. so Bran thanking Theon was a sign that he knew Theon was about to make the greatest sacrifice for him. You are right though Theon's death as the last apparent defender of Bran made the NightKing overconfident.

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Posted (edited)
16 minutes ago, darksellsword said:

I agree with nearly all of that except for the warging the crows. I believe that he warged the crows purely to allow the Nightking to know exactly where he is as he always planned to do. I think Bran knew he was luring the NightKing to his death at Aryas hand that's why he gave Arya the dagger and that's why he said to Theon I'm going now as a warning that Theon's doom was impending. If you remember Bran's conversation with Meera Reed after they arrived safely to Winterfell she was upset that Bran wasn't showing much gratitude for everything she had done for him and for everyone that had died to keep him safe. so Bran thanking Theon was a sign that he knew Theon was about to make the greatest sacrifice for him. You are right though Theon's death as the last apparent defender of Bran made the NightKing overconfident.

Yes he thanked him because he was aware that one way or another Theon being alone wouldn’t survive the Night king and he didn’t want to betray Aryas surprise move as this was his only chance to survive. So he let Theon “sacrifice” himself. 

He did warged the crows of course to check on the night king but I can’t explain to myself what he was doing the rest of the time, other than watching probably what’s going on, thus he became aware of Arya’s arrival. 

Edited by Nightwish

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2 minutes ago, Nightwish said:

Yes he thanked him because he was aware that one way or another Theon being alone wouldn’t survive the Night king and he didn’t want to betray Aryas surprise move as this was his only chance to survive. 

He did warged the crows of course to check on the night king but I can’t explain to myself what he was doing the rest of the time, other than watching probably what’s going on, thus he became aware of Arya’s arrival. 

He doesn't need to warg the ravens to know Arya survived he can see everything that happened that night weeks in advance just as he can look at whatever he wants in the present and in the past. I think D&D just throw in some raven imagery so people can instantly know Bran is using his abilities and it ties into this name the "3eyedraven" they have built up on the show which in the books is just Brendan Rivers nickname not a title or ability to inherit

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1 minute ago, darksellsword said:

He doesn't need to warg the ravens to know Arya survived he can see everything that happened that night weeks in advance just as he can look at whatever he wants in the present and in the past. I think D&D just throw in some raven imagery so people can instantly know Bran is using his abilities and it ties into this name the "3eyedraven" they have built up on the show which in the books is just Brendan Rivers nickname not a title or ability to inherit

Does he see the future? I don’t remember him making a point about it. 

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1 hour ago, Nightwish said:

Does he see the future? I don’t remember him making a point about it. 

No you are right it's never specifically mentioned on the show that Bran can see the future but Jojen could and he suggests that when Bran has fully realised his power he will be able to do much more than Jojen.

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Ya for me it's the weakest part of the episode.  Bran doing his warg into the crows was great. His, 'I have to go now' line kind of foreshadowed that he would do something momentous.  

I do get that he was bait, but clearly whatever plan they had was completely forgone because Arya appeared to sort luckily survive and make her way to the NK where again, she was completely unheard or seen.  

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9 hours ago, Vuron said:

What, exactly, was Bran supposed to be doing.  He's basically a library in a wheelchair.

There's never been any indication that he's got all these superpowers that some people wish he had.  He can warg, but we've only seen him warg lesser creatures and Hodor.  Jon and Arya can warg, too.

There have been many other 3ec's and they didn't make some huge impact on the world, either.  As far as we know, Bloodraven spent a century embedded in a tree and didn't have much of an impact on the rest of the world.

The big problem here is that the NK found killing Bran to be so essential that he did it first rather than attacking less prepared places like KL to bolster his forces. This wouldn't be a problem if they somehow expounded on the NK, establishing that he for whatever reason is solely programmed to kill the 3ER, but instead we have the overconfident swaggering but ultimately incompetent villain who just wants to kill him for the sake of it. 

Also I am sorry but you are lying to yourself if you feel like they weren't building up Bran for an important role. 

Even though nothing will stop me from thinking it was silly that he was warged into Ravens for the duration of the fight, I will forgive a lot of the Bran specific issues if like someone mentioned, he deliberately wanted everything to play out this way, weakening Dany with the intent of Jon ruling. But I think that is wayyyy too hopeful and outcome for what we've seen from the writers.

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7 hours ago, MinscS2 said:

It's probably coincidental, but in the latest episode, the NK didn't "activate" until Bran went into 3ER-mode. 

Food for thought.  

Iirc the ravens were in the  treeline with the WW.    They flew over the field of battle  over  Winterfell and where the NK was commanding the Wights.  He then directly engaged .  He was commanding the entire time until Bran discovered his position and Wights were getting torched by dragon strafing.

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