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What will be the final WTF moment?

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From what I can tell from the preview of epi 4, it looks like Dany's celebrating the win of their war against tAotD, but neither Sansa nor Jon are shown beside her during the celebration. Their chairs are empty. And in the same preview you can see Dany walk off in the same red dress with an angry face, walking away from Varys. Something's up. Maybe that's the WTF moment?

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9 minutes ago, sweetsunray said:

http://mylifestylemax.com/lifestyle/kit-harington-teased-there-could-be-a-shakespearean-twist-coming-up-on-game-of-thrones/

From what I can tell from the preview of epi 4, it looks like Dany's celebrating the win of their war against tAotD, but neither Sansa nor Jon are shown beside her during the celebration. Their chairs are empty. And in the same preview you can see Dany walk off in the same red dress with an angry face, walking away from Varys. Something's up. Maybe that's the WTF moment?

Agreed. Even if isn’t the actual WTF moment itself, maybe this is the last clue before that moment happens? If episode 3,4,5 are to be understood as one connected segment, then maybe the moment happens in ep5? Just speculating. 

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Well Jon going to Kings Landing to seek truce with Cersei, alone and unarmed, getting himself killed would be a WTF moment.

But more of a ''WTF....this is the epitomy of dumbness''. 

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We've seen a shot of Jon and Daenerys together at...

...Dragonstone...



...and they didn't seem to be angry at each other. 

If Jon's about to make a quick trip to KL before that shot, he better use some fast form of transportation.

Maybe he "took" Rhaegal without telling and that's why Daenerys seems annoyed.
 

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2 minutes ago, Gianna Dorenberg said:

Well Jon going to Kings Landing to seek truce with Cersei, alone and unarmed, getting himself killed would be a WTF moment.

But more of a ''WTF....this is the epitomy of dumbness''. 

Could be a truce a la Marcus Antonius makes with Brutus.

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Just now, sweetsunray said:

Could be a truce a la Marcus Antonius makes with Brutus.

Yeah, Jon lying for the first time in the show, and to Cersei no less, would also be a WTF-moment.

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1 minute ago, MinscS2 said:

Yeah, Jon lying for the first time in the show, and to Cersei no less, would also be a WTF-moment.

From a book arc it might make sense, since Lannister loyalty and behind-scheming of Cersei as regent is what gets Jon caesared.

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Just now, MinscS2 said:

Yeah, Jon lying for the first time in the show, and to Cersei no less, would also be a WTF-moment.

I can see Jon lying but why would Cersei believe any of that ? She is the queen of mischief. Jon is a dumb character in the show that always messes up. Even if we assume he comes up with a decent plan (I can't even think of what that could be, any thoughts ?) why would Cersei go with it ? She knows she has the bigger army, she knows she can just kill an important name right then and there. We'll see I suppose. Hopefully it makes more sense in the show, though I'm not that hopeful.

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2 minutes ago, Gianna Dorenberg said:

I can see Jon lying but why would Cersei believe any of that ? She is the queen of mischief. Jon is a dumb character in the show that always messes up. Even if we assume he comes up with a decent plan (I can't even think of what that could be, any thoughts ?) why would Cersei go with it ? She knows she has the bigger army, she knows she can just kill an important name right then and there. We'll see I suppose. Hopefully it makes more sense in the show, though I'm not that hopeful.

Because she actually believed him to be honorable and trustworthy (which he is), and even watched him refuse to lie to his own detriment back in S7E7.

Basically, if Jon tells her something, she might actually believe it.
If anyone else (except maybe Qyburn) tells her something, she's unlikely to believe it.

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13 minutes ago, sweetsunray said:

Could be a truce a la Marcus Antonius makes with Brutus.

Interesting. But Brutus had a great sense of honour and thought of others in the same way. It is this weakness in Brutus that makes him easy to be manipulated. 

Cersei has neither honour nor is someone you can easily manipulate. In the show, she is the ultimate manipulator.

How would that work ? Thoughts ?

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Posted (edited)

Marcus Antonius let Brutus believe his rule would be unopposed as long as he ratified Caesar's will, so that Augustus could inherit the fortune and would be someone would rebel for. Brutus had no real reason to believe Marc Antony either, but some legalities were pointed out that made him cave otherwise his power-grab could be seen as illigitemate. Show-Jon hasn't been portrayed as being that subtle. But nobody thought so of Marc Antony either. Augustus and Marc Anthony were outnumbered, so they had to use trickery. So, with Jaime at WF, admitting Cersei's pregnant to Tyrion, and her trying to make it appear it's Euron's (re-doing her trick with Robert), and Gendry as evidence that none of her children were actually Baratheons, they have a political advantage (yeah, her legitimacy as ruler is very questionable to begin with, and she didn't care about it whatsoever in s7, but she does now). It doesn't appear that Tyrion and Jaime are willing to make this knowledge public in epi 2, but Bronn showing up to kill both brothers (trying it or not and blabbing). :dunno:

But we have Joe Dempsie saying his arc got fuly complete, and his arc started with Ned dsicovering who he is. Ned Stark confronted Cersei about it. Having Jon do it would be an echo of it, except this time he doesn't threaten Cersei as Ned did, but tells her 'North won't oppose you if such and such', and then such and such is actually the thing to help rally allies to them, because it will inherently make Targ rule acceptable.

Not sure whether that's the actual WTF moment though. Still think the WTF moment is Tyrion donig something to get all of KL turned into a pile of ashes.

 

Edited by sweetsunray

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8 minutes ago, MinscS2 said:

Because she actually believed him to be honorable and trustworthy (which he is), and even watched him refuse to lie to his own detriment back in S7E7.

Basically, if Jon tells her something, she might actually believe it.
If anyone else (except maybe Qyburn) tells her something, she's unlikely to believe it.

She might, I guess. But it's hard to believe that she would.

It all boils down to ''what is the lie'' ? Has to be exceptional, to be so believable that even the coldest human being with nothing but death on her mind and total lack of honour would accept. 

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Posted (edited)
9 minutes ago, sweetsunray said:

Marcus Antonius let Brutus believe his rule would be unopposed as long as he ratified Caesar's will, so that Augustus could inherit the fortune and would be someone would rebel for. Brutus had no real reason to believe Marc Antony either, but some legalities were pointed out that made him cave otherwise his power-grab could be seen as illigitemate. Show-Jon hasn't been portrayed as being that subtle. But nobody thought so of Marc Antony either. Augustus and Marc Anthony were outnumbered, so they had to use trickery. So, with Jaime at WF, admitting Cersei's pregnant to Tyrion, and her trying to make it appear it's Euron's (re-doing her trick with Robert), and Gendry as evidence that none of her children were actually Baratheons, they have a political advantage (yeah, her legitimacy as ruler is very questionable to begin with, and she didn't care about it whatsoever in s7, but she does now). It doesn't appear that Tyrion and Jaime are willing to make this knowledge public in epi 2, but Bronn showing up to kill both brothers (trying it or not and blabbing). :dunno:

Not sure whether that's the actual WTF moment though. Still think the WTF moment is Tyrion donig something to get all of KL turned into a pile of ashes.

 

Good point. Maybe Jon is gonna tell Cersei the truth combined with a lie ? He's gonna tell her HE is the heir to the iron throne and that Dany sees him as a threat and that Jon has no intention of ruling and wants a truce with Cersei in exchange for something Cersei wants ? Not sure about the details but I feel like he's going to use the news about him being the heir to the iron throne as a negotiation tactic. Not sure if it all will make sense.

Edited by Gianna Dorenberg

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Bran's eyes turn red because he's R'hollor (he named his direwolf Summer). Everybody dies from endless summer.

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Dany uses her dragons in KL setting fire to the WF caches (which she didn't know were there), killing everyone and burning everything to the ground.

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19 hours ago, Lyanna<3Rhaegar said:

I'm in agreement that there is another WTF moment in the story I just don't think Dany dying is anymore or less likely than Jon dying, or any other character dying. What I'm asking is how did you reach the specific conclusion that Jon will kill Dany or that Dany dying is the most likely? 
 

It's just a guess and a prediction. I don't have any scientific evidence which leads to this conclusion lol but like i said, I think they've set up Dany being quite fond of burning people alive and relentless when it comes to people not acknowledging her as Queen. I feel like this will come into play after she seizes the throne and the rest of the characters will realize that perhaps she isn't fit for the job. Perhaps Sansa refuses to acknowledge Dany in the end and Jon has to make a choice between family or Dany. Perhaps she gets charged with war crimes by Jon after burning massive amounts of civilians and the whole "man who passes the sentence should swing the sword" will come back into play. But again, i am just speculating and spouting scenarios.

Jon has already died once so I feel like him dying again is pretty slim.

Also, i think at this point we can say the prophecies of Azor Ahai/Prince that was Promises are pretty loose to interpretation. I'd say you could argue Jon relieving the realm from a tyrant king and installing a decent form of rulership could fit the whole "a hero to deliver the world from darkness." Who knows. I guess we'll have to wait another 3 episodes.

But i am calling it now, Jon kills Dany. I'll eat my words once the episode airs.

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Just had a thought - Mel's whole "the Lord of light brought him back for a purpose, now that purpose has been served" mantra....

So for what purpose did the Lord of Light bring Jon back? When will his purpose be served?

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I'm not sure there is going to be a pay off to Jon's story, unless he sits the IT, then his whole Targaryen heritage gets no pay off, all the time spent on those flashbacks, is wasted time.  But, the show doesn't care anymore about paying off or not various storylines so he could die or sit the IT or something else.  It's all somewhat meaningless at this juncture.

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24 minutes ago, Jon Snow Bengal said:

Just had a thought - Mel's whole "the Lord of light brought him back for a purpose, now that purpose has been served" mantra....

So for what purpose did the Lord of Light bring Jon back? When will his purpose be served?

His purpose is to be shit on X amount of times. What that exact number is I don't know. Considering the amount of dumb mistakes he makes, maybe we will have another prophecy and he ends up being the child of D&D. That would tie it all up together nicely.

19 minutes ago, Cas Stark said:

I'm not sure there is going to be a pay off to Jon's story, unless he sits the IT, then his whole Targaryen heritage gets no pay off, all the time spent on those flashbacks, is wasted time.  But, the show doesn't care anymore about paying off or not various storylines so he could die or sit the IT or something else.  It's all somewhat meaningless at this juncture.

On an unrelated note,  isn't the ending of the show going to be the same as the ending for the books ? I feel like I read that somewhere but forgot.

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6 hours ago, RhaenysBee said:

The final wtf moment you ask. 

Flash forward 10 years: The Iron Throne is ruled by queen Sansa, her guard is Arya, her hand Tyrion, members of the court are Jaime and Brienne’s daughter Tormunda, Arya and Gendry’s daughter Sansa, Missandei and Greyworm’s adopted daughter Khaleesi. Since Sansa never get married or had an heir (she is just above all that shit), the next in line for the throne is the daughter of the late Jon and Dany, Aegon. Yes, her name is Aegon too, it’s up to you to decide why, but the solution is not it made creative sense to me and I wanted to name her that. Also Yara and Alys Karstark’s daughter named Lyannamormont Greyjoy is there. No, Cersei didn’t die, she is confined to a castle where she drinks wine and smirks all day. There’ll be a spin-off show about how she gets out and goes to war against Princess Aegon to reclaim the Iron Throne. 

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA I LOVE YOU!

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