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What will be the final WTF moment?

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Just now, MinscS2 said:

I think we can throw the whole "Daenerys is nissa-nissa and will be killed by Jon so he can forge lightbringer"-debate in the garbage bin after the latest episode. (Unless tPwwP is their yet unborn child and Daenerys dies in childbirth, technically because Jon 'stabbed her'.)

Actually, throw every prophecy-related debate in the bin...

*shrug*
We'll see.

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On 5/3/2019 at 4:00 PM, LadyBlackwater said:

I read this article along the same lines. It's lengthy, but a good read------

In an interview with Time Magazine last year, G.R.R.M. explicitly made sure to bring up Beric Dondarrion.

"he’s not a living human being anymore. His heart isn’t beating, his blood isn’t flowing in his veins, he’s a wight, but a wight animated by fire instead of by ice, now we’re getting back to the whole fire and ice thing"

So Beric is a "fire wight". And thats obviously foreshadowing something. The big question is, if the Night King animates the ice wights, who then animates the fire wights?

Here are the Facts:

  1. Bran is a powerful warg. We know he gets visions of the past, present and future…and can manipulate the past to help save his future self. We don't yet know the extent of this power.

  2. We knew the Night King can reanimate the dead into evil still-dead soldiers. But this episode we learned he can also manipulate snow and ice at will, sending a full blown blizzard. (This is key.)

  3. Followers of the Lord of Light believe that their Lord is always at war with his evil opposite diety. Theres always a dichotomy. Light vs Dark. Good vs Bad. Fire vs Ice. Everything in this world has an antithesis.

  4. The 3 eyed raven seems to be NK's eternal adversary. He intentionally killed the OG 3 eyed raven, and ever since he's been after Bran.

  5. The lord of light supposedly has a "purpose" for everyone. Consequently, everyone supposedly brought back by the lord of light helped Arya defeat the Night King.

  6. Bran gave Arya the dagger, and offered himself as bait. So like the Lord of Light, everything Bran has done recently also ultimately leads to Arya defeating the Night King.

What we can take from this…

  • If the Night King is Lord of Death, Night, and Ice…he should have an equal opposite. That opposite would of course be the Lord of Life, Light, and Fire (ie. The Lord of Light) .

  • The Night King is a physical entity, his opposite should be too. The Lord of Light likely has a physical presence (or a physical champion at the very least). So who is it? they don't ever explicitly show any other being with NK's level of power (or do they?)

  • If the Night King can reanimate the dead, his "light" opposite should have an equal level of power to bring life. And if NK's reanimated dead fight for evil, then his opposite's reanimated dead would fight for good/the living.

  • George R.R. Martin confirmed this logic, with his mentioning the existence of the "Fire Wight". Beric, Jon, (and maybe the Hound) are one of them. So the above theory that the Lord of Light is the NK's opposite holds water

  • If the NK can manifest snow and ice at will. Then his opposite should be able to manifest fire at will. And maybe...communicate with others through it.

  • Bran and the Lord of Light are working towards the same goal.

  • The 3 Eyed Raven is the NK's ultimate adversary….the force hes always at battle with.

The simplest explanation to all of this ...The 3 Eyed Raven is the Night King's opposite. The NK's opposite is the Lord of Light. Therefore, Bran = the Lord of Light (or at least what people think is the Lord of Light due to the signs he brings)

So how does this play out?


The Dagger Arch

First consider the dagger.

The entire storyline from Season 1 on revolves around the dagger. And the entire dagger story is intrinsically linked to Bran.

We also know the dagger is ancient, as it appears in Sam's book. Its been passed down from generation to generation, as all existing Valerian steel has been. https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/gameofthrones/images/9/97/Valyrian_steel_dagger_game_of_thrones_catspaw_blade_sam.png/revision/latest?cb=20170723084654

We don't actually know for sure who owned the dagger, or where the assassin got it. Littlefinger claims it was his but later denies it. Even if it was Littlefinger's, its never explained where he got it. This is important.


The Theory

It all but obvious at this point, Bran has been manipulating the plotline the entire time. He knew exactly how the battle was going to end. He knew exactly how to kill the Night King, because he set the trap himself. While warging during the battle, he was likely manipulating events to lead to the final conclusion.

Everything he has done has revolved around getting the dagger to Arya and getting her safely to the NK. That plan was set in motion all the way back in Season 1.

Future Bran made sure that dagger was sent to kill his childhood self. He put the key piece in play. He then warged into Summer to kill the assassin.

Farther back than that, the dagger may have belonged to Aerys Targarian (passed down through their family), and Bran messed with him to make sure it got where it needed to go. (Maybe Jaime or Littlefinger picked it up after the Mad King was slain).

Arya's training was also crucial/pre-planned. She would have never trained to kill without....1) Bran's assassination attempt being pinned on Tyrion (because of the dagger). And 2) King Robert's Death.

We already know how he could have manipulated the assassination. He could have also been warged into the wild boar that killed King Robert, if it were for the good of the realm.

Melesandre told Arya last episode what Syrio Forel told her before he was killed, "What do we say to the god of death? Not today". Homage to the fact that her training was all destined from the beginning.

All of the war and death that was sparked because of Bran. He knew it would happen, but he saw how the alternative story lines would play out, where the Night King wins. He sacrificed whoever he had to for the good of the realm. Much like lord Varys (who he spoke to through the flames after he was cut)

All of the "magical Lord of Light moments" that are supposedly the God's work, are actually Bran manipulating the past, resurrecting people and making sure Arya got the knife and made it to kill NK.

  • Beric getting brought back to life so many times….it wasn't the shitty priest saying a prayer. Both he and Melesandre said he shouldn't have that power. In fact, it was Bran bringing him back to life so he could help Arya during the battle.

  • The hound surviving. Septon Ray told him he thought he was a corpse. He also told him that he pretty much died multiple times while he was recovering, but he kept coming back to life. After he comes back to life, he's fighting for good. Again, hound ended up a key figure in getting Arya to the NK.

  • Jon coming back. No evidence again to suggest Melesandre's prayer did it. She completely gave up, and he didn't come back to life until a while after.

  • The trench lighting on fire…again, it didn't seem to be Melesandre's words that did it. You could see she was getting frustrated/confused when it wasn't working at first. It was actually Bran summoning fire.

  • Lord Varys hearing the voice in the flames after he was cut....which is said to be what lead to him ending up in King's Landing and rising to power. After that scene with the priestess in the Pyramid, it cut to Bran’s face.

We know Bran is the most powerful living being other than the Night King. We know both he and the Lord of Light are working towards the same goal, and both manipulate the storyline.

It makes sense that Bran is the Lord of light, and all past 3 Eyed Ravens were also the Lord of Light. Or at the very least they’re representatives of him .

Where was Bran during the battle? Making shit happen. This would make the Night King's death wayyy less anticlimactic than it was.

Some interesting questions then come up if this all plays out. When the Whites die, their wights they turned die.

If Bran dies, does Jon automatically die too?

Now that the Night King is dead, whos the Lord of Light's new opposite to balance out the dichotomy? (Cersei? Danny? perhaps)


Further Evidence

  • Bran's powers are strongest by the Weirwood trees. Aka the "Heart Trees" The trees were worshiped by the First Men (and Children of the forest?) as gods. They're known as "Heart Trees". The lord of light is also known as the "Heart of Fire", with a symbolic heart.

  • The Children of the Forest brought back Benjen as a fire-wielding fire wight. They're obviously the key to the power of both the NK and the Lord of Light. They could have created the 3 eyed raven/LoL the same as they created the NK as a counter balance

  • Bran (or the OG 3 eyed raven) are likely who drove Aerys II Targaryen mad, whispering for him to "Burn them all". He's been fighting the future battle from the past for a long time.

  • In the episode followup commentary, they implied they randomly picked Arya to kill the NK, and wove the episode to heighten the surprise. Its hard to believe that decision was really random

This is good stuff and it very well could happen in the books. But, no way they fit all this into three episodes of the tv show. They haven’t spent nearly enough time developing Bran’s character to make him so important. It will end with some combination of Jon, Dany, Tyrion, Cersei. And maybe minor finishes for Sansa, Arya, and Bran. Everyone else is just clutter.

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1 hour ago, Greenmonsterff said:

This is good stuff and it very well could happen in the books. But, no way they fit all this into three episodes of the tv show. They haven’t spent nearly enough time developing Bran’s character to make him so important. It will end with some combination of Jon, Dany, Tyrion, Cersei. And maybe minor finishes for Sansa, Arya, and Bran. Everyone else is just clutter.

Agree 100% there is NO time for that lol

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Spoiler

According to this guy, u/SimonR2905, on freefolk, it will happen in episode 6 and will have something to do with the faceless men.

I saw this on freefolk. Possible spoiler if legit!

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7 hours ago, TNTW said:
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According to this guy, u/SimonR2905, on freefolk, it will happen in episode 6 and will have something to do with the faceless men.

I saw this on freefolk. Possible spoiler if legit!

Yup. to my mind that would be a bloody good ending. Doesn't he also suggest the last and biggest WTF ending will involve

Spoiler

Bran

?

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Hopefully something completely unrelated to Dany, or Jon. 

I’ve always thought Bran accidentally fried himself during the Hodor/door event. His personality completely changes after that. 

My personal crackpot theory is that the CotF have been using him to eliminate the WW so they can resume their war against mankind. 

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6 hours ago, House Cambodia said:

Yup. to my mind that would be a bloody good ending. Doesn't he also suggest the last and biggest WTF ending will involve

  Hide contents

Bran

?

I'm not sure. I can't keep up lol. It might all be BS anyway, but it's run to speculate!

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3 hours ago, The_Spanish_Inquisition said:

Hopefully something completely unrelated to Dany, or Jon. 

I’ve always thought Bran accidentally fried himself during the Hodor/door event. His personality completely changes after that. 

My personal crackpot theory is that the CotF have been using him to eliminate the WW so they can resume their war against mankind. 

This Simon chap made a hugely important point which I completely believe. He said that with this forthcoming new series The Long Night in the pipeline, the showrunners decided to ditch the CotF storyline from this last series of GoT. I wouldn't be at all surprised if the closing moments in episode 6 have Bran give some huge reveal intended to keep us on tenterhooks for the next 3 years until we leap back 8000 years to find out what the hell is going on!

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Jon and Daenerys coming to blows doesn't seem like a WTF-moment at this point tbh, since everything seems to head that way at least one episode in advance. It would also be basically the same story of 20 years ago, except you swap Jamie/Aerys for Jon/Daenerys. 
It's WTF in it's cruelty to both characters and their entire arcs, but not really unexpected at this point.

A bigger WTF at this point would be Daenerys going "fuck this shit im out" and going back to Mereen. Not that it's happening, but still...

 

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13 minutes ago, MinscS2 said:

Jon and Daenerys coming to blows doesn't seem like a WTF-moment at this point tbh, since everything seems to head that way

Yeah, completely agree. WTF has to involve someone else completely and also not be who sits on the damn chair. My last post suggested it's Bran, up in Winterfell. Think I'll stick with that.

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1 hour ago, House Cambodia said:

Yeah, completely agree. WTF has to involve someone else completely and also not be who sits on the damn chair. My last post suggested it's Bran, up in Winterfell. Think I'll stick with that.

Tyrion and Bran talking... made me wonder when Tyrion suggested that Bran as a trueborn son of Ned Stark would be the Lord of Winterfell, then realized Bran doesn't want it.

Bran said he doesn't really want it... anymore

Maybe he aims for higher now.

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On 5/7/2019 at 9:44 AM, House Cambodia said:

This Simon chap made a hugely important point which I completely believe. He said that with this forthcoming new series The Long Night in the pipeline, the showrunners decided to ditch the CotF storyline from this last series of GoT. I wouldn't be at all surprised if the closing moments in episode 6 have Bran give some huge reveal intended to keep us on tenterhooks for the next 3 years until we leap back 8000 years to find out what the hell is going on!

I’ve spent the better part of the past few days reading this guy’s threads on Reddit. What he says is seriously fascinating. If he’s a faker, he’s a good one. I personally could do without focusing any further on the CoTF, at least as they were portrayed in GoT, but it’s definitely an interesting line of thought.  

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Posted (edited)

A ha ha - I've just thought of a good one. Try this:

 

Cleganbowl - the Mountain kills the Hound. Li'l Arya FM's into the Hound and fulfils her list by killing the last surviving member, the Mountain.

 

Or, the Hound wins Cleganbowl and she FMs into the Mountain when Qyburn is working on him, kills Qyburn and kills/fails to protect (more likely) Cercei.

:spank:

 

 

 

But seriously, whilst it may not be all about Arya, I do think a Faceless Man has to be the focus, along with Bran. No, Bran won't be one the throne - can't see him moving from his tree, but he does see all the past, including a key event in the past involving an FM false identity. I'm trying to work out which main character in their 40s now, has been a Faceless Man throughout the story. I think we've seen him as Syrio and Ja'quen. Who 'disappeared' from Westeros during the time Arya was in Braavos? Not the Hound, is it?

Edited by House Cambodia

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The final WTF moment will happen at the end of the 5th episode: there will be no episode 6. :lmao:

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On 5/5/2019 at 1:42 PM, LordImp said:

Jon will kill Dany. 

Is that really strong enough to qualify as a WTF moment, though? It would be sad, yeah, but it wouldn’t be a major shocker. 

I’m hoping it’s something less obvious, like the Hodor reveal was. 

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9 hours ago, The_Spanish_Inquisition said:

Is that really strong enough to qualify as a WTF moment, though? It would be sad, yeah, but it wouldn’t be a major shocker. 

I’m hoping it’s something less obvious, like the Hodor reveal was. 

Yes it is. It might be obvious for us discussing this here , but for the rest of the fanbase it will be one of the most shocking moments. 

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WinTerFell

...just saying ;)

 

But for the record and because it's fun, here are my wildest guesses:

# Qyburn's project comes to fruition, bringing back dead people at a massive scale (he was actually helped by Jon et al. bringing the zombie to KL)

# Jon, being dead already, is affected by that in some way (and who knows, maybe Dany has been technically dead since Drogo's pyre too)

# Arya, being literally Death at this point, eventually takes control of the dead like the NK did, maybe bringing Winter south in the process (& ending up "frozen, with Needle in her hand")

# Winterfell becomes the de facto capital of what's left of Westeros

# Dany decides that Westeros isn't worth it and goes to Essos to rule from Volantis or something (remember the red priestess turning the smallfolk into Dany fans in S06)
 

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On 5/2/2019 at 5:03 PM, Lyanna<3Rhaegar said:

I think Sam's family are the only people she burned for not bending the knee. 

 

I disagree. Azor Ahai/PTWP prophecy doesn't really have anything to do with killing a crazy Targ ruler. But also I don't really see how they could make the plunge from Daenerys, the way she is now, to mad, sadistic, burn people for no reason like Aerys in only 3 episodes. Not well anyway. 

 

I'm in agreement that there is another WTF moment in the story I just don't think Dany dying is anymore or less likely than Jon dying, or any other character dying. What I'm asking is how did you reach the specific conclusion that Jon will kill Dany or that Dany dying is the most likely? 

 

I see how this may lead you to the conclusion Dany will burn people but again I sincerely hope not. D&D don't have the time or the intelligence to set this up to be a good transition & it will come off as cheap & out of character I think. I suppose we will see soon though. 

I called it.

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