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Death scene: Melisandre


Kajjo

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1 hour ago, btfu806 said:

It was a dumb scene. It would have been nice to have a bit of Mel backstory last episode, instead of her just randomly showing up from the direction where the white walkers were this episode.

But if last episodes she came back and made some comments about her whole life purpose is to kill the NK, or watch his death and she really has been alive for 100 years, since he has been around and tonight will be the night she hopes to defeat him and can finally rest.

But D&D didn't, and we got that awful scene. Just add it to the pile of stupid plot lines in the show.

No.  That's what has gone wrong in the books.  We don't need to know everything.  The mystery is often better than a backstory.

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Just now, Ser Gareth said:

No.  That's what has gone wrong in the books.  We don't need to know everything.  The mystery is often better than a backstory.

Then we will just disagree, because whatever that was with Mel last night, was trash.

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I was pleased with Mel's death. It was serene.
With the NK defeated, she fulfilled her purpose, which was always about AA and defeating the Others.
The coming political war was never something she cared about. 


 

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Guys, without the show us ever telling who Melisandre was or what her motivation was there is simply no point in anything she did. She was just an actress in a red dress doing what the script and the directors told her to. There is no character there, no story, no motivation, no anything.

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1 minute ago, Lord Varys said:

Guys, without the show us ever telling who Melisandre was or what her motivation was there is simply no point in anything she did. She was just an actress in a red dress doing what the script and the directors told her to. There is no character there, no story, no motivation, no anything.

You are just a hater. Compared to other movies, she had a lot of story to her arc. 

It is normal that in shows not everything is explained and sometime imagination is better than explain everything detail for detail like form little children. The same is true for good literature. Room for thinking and having your own theories and imagination.

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23 minutes ago, Kajjo said:

You are just a hater. Compared to other movies, she had a lot of story to her arc. 

It is normal that in shows not everything is explained and sometime imagination is better than explain everything detail for detail like form little children. The same is true for good literature. Room for thinking and having your own theories and imagination.

Well, then explain to me who Melisandre was and what she was doing in the show? What was she about, why did she what she did?

Oh, and I don't hate the show. I actually like it as a travesty. These two morons at least were able to adapt a single of George R. R. Martin's great quotes - the one from Jaime about him trying to become Ser Arthur Dayne only to end up the Smiling Knight instead. This show never was Ser Arthur Dayne but it sure as hell is the Smiling Knight now.

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1 minute ago, Lord Varys said:

Well, then explain to me who Melisandre was and what she was doing in the show? What was she about, why did she what she did?

Melisandre is a Red Priestess of the Lord of Light. She knew about the eventuell duel between Life and Death and tried to fulfill the prophecy of the Prince that was Promised. She mistook Stannis Baratheon to be this Prince. She really can do magic (shadow birth, Jon's resurrection, igniting arakhs) but he misinterprets several fire visions. We see her ruthlessness with several stake burnings, Gendry, with Davos, with Shireen, her seduction of Stannis, her older self when going to bed in the Black Castle.

We know little about Melisandre compared to our main characters, so much is true. But compare Melisandre to characters from other well-known, successful shows like "The Walking Dead". Not a single character of TWD has even the slightest depth compared to our main characters and even less then Melisandre. Your expectations simply might be too high. It is normal that characters just act, that we see a slim slice of their lives, some of their actions and have to bear the consequences. Shows are not biographies.

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1 minute ago, Kajjo said:

Melisandre is a Red Priestess of the Lord of Light. She knew about the eventuell duel between Life and Death and tried to fulfill the prophecy of the Prince that was Promised. She mistook Stannis Baratheon to be this Prince. She really can do magic (shadow birth, Jon's resurrection, igniting arakhs) but he misinterprets several fire visions. We see her ruthlessness with several stake burnings, Gendry, with Davos, with Shireen, her seduction of Stannis, her older self when going to bed in the Black Castle.

There isn't really a prophecy of the prince that was promised in the show, is there? Yes, I know, Mel referenced it but she was the only one, wasn't she, so this doesn't tell us anything. What did her cause to mistake Stannis to be the guy, though? What did cause her to abandon him? Mel abandoning Stannis never made sense - him losing certainly could break her, but religious nut cases usually fit everything that happens into their world view, so she would never suddenly think that Stannis is lost before he is actually dead.

1 minute ago, Kajjo said:

We know little about Melisandre compared to our main characters, so much is true. But compare Melisandre to characters from other well-known, successful shows like "The Walking Dead". Not a single character of TWD has even the slightest depth compared to our main characters and even less then Melisandre. Your expectations simply might be too high. It is normal that characters just act, that we see a slim slice of their lives, some of their actions and have to bear the consequences. Shows are not biographies.

This is not some TV show that's written as they go along. It is an adaptation of a very intricate fantasy series and George R. R. Martin most definitely could - and likely did - tell the writers who Melisandre of Asshai was and what she was about. They could have given her the story she is supposed to have. But they chose not to.

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5 minutes ago, Kajjo said:

Melisandre is a Red Priestess of the Lord of Light. She knew about the eventuell duel between Life and Death and tried to fulfill the prophecy of the Prince that was Promised. She mistook Stannis Baratheon to be this Prince.

Agreed.  Everything was about serving the LoL and trying to fulfill the prophecies she had forseen.  The problem was, she misunderstood a lot.  And a LOT of people payed the price for that.  She felt she could be totally ruthless because in her opinion, the end (life triumphing over death) justified the means.  She didn't really "get" who she was supposed to be helping, until near the end. 

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4 hours ago, the red god said:

i didn't really get it either. it's been beaten over our heads both in the show and the books that she is inherently evil. i get the need to add complexity to a character, but her sudden change of conscience was just too drastic. plus if she's suddenly a "good" person, what was to stop her from bringing beric dondarrion back to life? i don't buy the idea that his purpose in the story arc is complete. there is plenty more he could have done in the future timeline in the upcoming war with cersei.

I never thought that Melisandre was evil. She was just bad at interpreting what she sees in the fire. Everything she did was well intentioned. She wanted to save the world and get the rightful person on the throne.

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2 minutes ago, Lord Varys said:

but religious nut cases usually fit everything that happens into their world view, so she would never suddenly think that Stannis is lost before he is actually dead.

That's true. I wondered about that, too, back then. See below.

3 minutes ago, Lord Varys said:

What did cause her to abandon him?

I thought self-conservation. She suddenly understands that he has absolutely no chance to win and that she made a horrible mistake. Stannis troops had deserted, no horses left, zero chance of winning. Stannis stubbornly going into the fight.

4 minutes ago, Lord Varys said:

They could have given her the story she is supposed to have. But they chose not to.

Yes, I agree. They probably decided against further depth and in favor of a more straight-forward story. I don't know why. I they could have easily made 10 or 12 episodes of season 8. They have enough stuff, enough issues to resolve, they could have had so many emotions, dialogue, developments. It's a pity.

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3 minutes ago, Greenmonsterff said:

I never thought that Melisandre was evil.

Well, depends on how you define "evil". She wasn't evil in the religious sense, but she was extremely ruthless, burning a lot of men at stakes, even burning Shireen, which he herself calls "a horrible mistake". 

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Melisandre's intentions where good but she committed evil acts when she tried to make a reality out of those intentions. 

Both "the end justifies the means" and "the road to hell is paved with good intentions" fit her character nicely.

If this was D&D, her alignment would most likely be "(True) Neutral."

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2 minutes ago, Larger than Average Finger said:

I sort of expected her to say one last Prayer, and have all the dead erupt in flame.

 

That would have been a great exit. 

But, honestly, I appreciate and like the calm and serene exit. It fit so very well to the mood after the battle. 

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Episode was really bad, but not surprising though. It didn't answer any questions which seem to be important to enitre song of ice and fire plotline. Melisandre is one example. You say that she died fulfilling her purpose. Ok, but I can't see what her purpose was, how she contributed to killing Night('s) King? Fired up the trenches which actually didnt stop the wights? Really shocking writing and I fear there is nothing left aside from fight for Iron Throne.

 

If we can take anything from this hollow show, then it is probably Euron Greyjoy who will be ultimate evil in Song of Ice and Fire series, new Bloodstone Emperor. Maybe there will be no leader of the Others at all?

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I thought Melisandres arc ended about right, her motivations were clear and whilst she hasn't done the best of jobs with her aims she got there in the end. I wouldn't say it was suicide, quite the opposite in that she has cheated death for hundreds of years, shes just given up battling the natural as her duty has seen through.

Much like many of the characters, hers was a redemption story, shes done so heinous thigs and started off a villain but by the end she came through and helped the good. She cant erase her crimes but she can go into death with her belief in tact and will be judged by her God or at least that's how she believes it. theres no real need for her to fight death anymore.

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5 minutes ago, White26 said:

Ok, but I can't see what her purpose was, how she contributed to killing Night('s) King? Fired up the trenches which actually didnt stop the wights? 

By both literally and metaphorically re-igniting the flame within Arya, allowing her to continue on and ultimately kill the NK.

Before their shared scene, Arya was scared, hurt and mentally broken. 
 

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Just now, Kajjo said:

Probably all Others are dead now in the show and will so in the books, too. No matter with or without leading figure.

I mean, D&D added Night King to have a personified leader of the magical evil. Maybe they did so because they decided to cut off "mystical" Euron Greyjoy arc to simplify things and make White Walkers magical evil?

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