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Prince Jon

"There is only One Thing We Say to Death"

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5 hours ago, btfu806 said:

Also, I must have missed the part where Syrio trained Arya on how to sneak past the White Walkers and fly toward the NK. It was so weird, that whole thing.

Well, he did make her train on cats. He probably knew she was going to confront the Night King someday.

Syrio = Jaqen = Howland Reed = Melisandre confirmed.

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I have no problem with Arya doing the deed... they built it up that Jon was gonna make it over.. then when the NK was about to draw his sword and we realise Jon is tied down by the Dragon it left a brief moment of Bran is gonna die.... so Arya being the one allowed another hold our breath moment.

She is small/fast/light on her feet and deadly up close along with her ability to blend into people with the faces it was all very believable.

 

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3 minutes ago, briantw said:

I think we need to see what happens in the last three episodes before we assume that Azor Ahai is meant to kill the Night King.  Maybe he/she still has a different role to play.  Surely something crazy is going to happen in the next three weeks.

There are only two antagonists left, Cersei who doesn't employ magic, or Euron, who so far, hasn't employed any magic on the show unless I have forgotten.  And Mel killed herself without a word of warning to anyone.  This seems pretty good evidence that we are in the post Sauron world where magic isn't going to be used to any great effect.  I guess Euron could pull some magic out at the last minute, but then retconning AA into that would be even worse than what we already have seen.  

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Posted (edited)
3 minutes ago, Cas Stark said:

There are only two antagonists left, Cersei who doesn't employ magic, or Euron, who so far, hasn't employed any magic on the show unless I have forgotten.  And Mel killed herself without a word of warning to anyone.  This seems pretty good evidence that we are in the post Sauron world where magic isn't going to be used to any great effect.  I guess Euron could pull some magic out at the last minute, but then retconning AA into that would be even worse than what we already have seen.  

Cersei does have someone with her who has employed magic, and who looked very curiously at a certain severed wight hand in King's Landing.  

Edited by briantw

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Just now, briantw said:

Cercei does have someone with her who has employed magic, and who looked very curiously at a certain severed wight hand in King's Landing.  

Eh, he's a mad scientist, employing science, Westeros Dr. Frankenstein, he's no sorcerer.  Of course in the books Euron is a sorcerer, but it would have been nice if they were going to pull that out at the last minute, to give some glimpses already that he uses magic.

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Just now, Cas Stark said:

Eh, he's a mad scientist, employing science, Westeros Dr. Frankenstein, he's no sorcerer.  Of course in the books Euron is a sorcerer, but it would have been nice if they were going to pull that out at the last minute, to give some glimpses already that he uses magic.

I think it's far more likely he's using blood magic than science.  In the books, he reanimates a damn headless corpse.  

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I thought giving Arya the kill was 1. fulfilling her arc through the show  -- everything that happened to her was necessary to bring her to that moment to be able to do that deed with that weapon, and 2. subverting the obvious thing of having the "destined" leaders in Jon or Dany do the deed. As for AA or TPWWP, those prophecy elements add something to the books, but it's playing with the fantasy tropes (as GRRM likes to do) to have those be mostly imperfect (I mean none of it works out as either Rhaegar or Mel are convinced it should).  

 

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9 hours ago, Prince Jon said:

This is the question that Syrio posed and answered to Arya at their last lesson.  How does Melisandre know to quote this back to Arya?  I get all the prophecy stuff of Mel seeing the future in the flames.  But this would have been the past by the time Mel/Arya met.  

Not Today! 

 Priestesses do know things. Back in season (I don’t remember) kilvara repeated to Varys what he had heard in the flames, ages ago, when he was still a young boy, and the sorcerer who had taken him, tossed his genitals in the fire, I guess the Lord tells them. 

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7 hours ago, Ferrum Aeternum said:

Yeah it's not like she spent a couple of years in Braavos learning how to be a ninja. That might have made more sense. 

Did she? I thought she was training to clean and be blind. 

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2 hours ago, Cas Stark said:

There are only two antagonists left, Cersei who doesn't employ magic, or Euron, who so far, hasn't employed any magic on the show unless I have forgotten.  And Mel killed herself without a word of warning to anyone.  This seems pretty good evidence that we are in the post Sauron world where magic isn't going to be used to any great effect.  I guess Euron could pull some magic out at the last minute, but then retconning AA into that would be even worse than what we already have seen.  

Cersei, with a zombie bodyguard, a Dark Wizard, and dragonfire doesn't use magic?

Also, there are still two living dragons. 

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2 minutes ago, darmody said:

Cersei, with a zombie bodyguard, a Dark Wizard, and dragonfire doesn't use magic?

Also, there are still two living dragons. 

There isn't an evidence that Qyborn is using magic and not science, Frankenstein's monster after all is created without magic.  Wildfire isn't magic either, it's science.  

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4 minutes ago, Cas Stark said:

There isn't an evidence that Qyborn is using magic and not science, Frankenstein's monster after all is created without magic.  Wildfire isn't magic either, it's science

Frankenstein's monster at least is created after the scientific revolution and knowledge of electricity. Qyburn accomplishes the resurrection and/or preservation of the poisoned Mountain with what science? Which he learned where, and how? 

Wildfire is made by alchemists using occult knowledge. I don't know why we should assume pyromancers are mere chemists. 

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1 hour ago, Nightwish said:

 Priestesses do know things. Back in season (I don’t remember) kilvara repeated to Varys what he had heard in the flames, ages ago, when he was still a young boy, and the sorcerer who had taken him, tossed his genitals in the fire, I guess the Lord tells them. 

Yes, good point.  I guess I keep hoping there is a tie into Syrio but dead seems to be dead in his case.

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, darmody said:

Frankenstein's monster at least is created after the scientific revolution and knowledge of electricity. Qyburn accomplishes the resurrection and/or preservation of the poisoned Mountain with what science? Which he learned where, and how? 

Wildfire is made by alchemists using occult knowledge. I don't know why we should assume pyromancers are mere chemists. 

The pyromancers literally mention in the second book that the spells they use have grown more potent.  Wildfire, while based on something real, is magical in nature for certain.  Tyrion just shrugs off what they tell him because he doesn't believe.

Edited by briantw

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18 hours ago, Cas Stark said:

All that was needed was a good hit woman.  No magic. No dragons. No king's blood.  

We all along knew that either dragon glass or Valyrian steel would do it. The Valyrian dagger was the Top 1 possibility. No real surprise here and nothing to moan about.

18 hours ago, Cas Stark said:

 Vast chunks of the story were rendered instantly obsolete and meaningless by the show';s desire to 'surprise' the audience with a random person killing the NK.

Which chunks are these?

18 hours ago, Orphalesion said:

watching Jon and Daenerys built up as the two people who will save the world

I didn't. I watched Daenerys turned from sold brood mare into a semi-mad warrior queen in quest for the Iron Throne. I watched all other thread rotating around the Iron Throne. Only Bran's and Jon's thread were about the danger of the North. Jon's possible claim to the throne was itnroduced extremely late in S7.

Daenerys want to be queen. That is what we watched. She agrees to first defeat the threat from the North, but all the time she was targeting the Iron throne.

18 hours ago, Orphalesion said:

They had several Red Priestesses show up and declare how important Daenerys is

To be a just queen of Meeren -- keep to the lines. Not to save the world from the Others. The threat was still unknown to Essos at that moment.

18 hours ago, Orphalesion said:

At least one show-only friend I have already talked to said, yes he liked the episode,

I liked the first three episodes. I liked Arya killing the Nightking.

I had wished for more explanations about Children, 3ER, NK and so on. Yes, they slim down the show even more. But that doesn't make it a bad show. 

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1 minute ago, Kajjo said:

 But that doesn't make it a bad show. 

I suppose not, but what makes it a bad show since season 5 is that, when in the older seasons, and the books, the plot arose from out of the characters, now the characters are bent and pushed around to serve the plot.

As to your picture of Dany...wow the show apparently really didn't focus on that glaringly obvious (in the books) part of her character arc...

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1 minute ago, Orphalesion said:

I suppose not, but what makes it a bad show since season 5 is that, when in the older seasons, and the books, the plot arose from out of the characters, now the characters are bent and pushed around to serve the plot.

I agree that GRRM writing was more complex, had more depth and was more intuitively believable. He should have written more for the show, at least smart lines and the general plot line.

2 minutes ago, Orphalesion said:

now the characters are bent and pushed around to serve the plot.

Well, that's not the difference, the main point is that we now notice it. 

3 minutes ago, Orphalesion said:

wow the show apparently really didn't focus on that glaringly obvious (in the books) part of her character arc.

Which is...?

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17 minutes ago, Kajjo said:

We all along knew that either dragon glass or Valyrian steel would do it. The Valyrian dagger was the Top 1 possibility. No real surprise here and nothing to moan about.

Which chunks are these?

snipped

The chunks about AA and the prince that was promised that we've heard about since season 2.  The chunks about Jon's parentage which it turns it is meaningless in terms of anything to do with saving the world, even Jon Snow's arc is rendered meaningless since he hasn't done anything successful in years.  Also the fact that the 'long night' battle that has been foretold for thousands of years didn't last a whole evening and was ended by a single person, again, it destroys the entire theme of the show that people have been too busy with their own selfish goals to pay attention to the larger threat, turns out, all those selfish people have been absolutely correct to ignore this Northern threat.  Even the Northerners should have ignored it.

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2 minutes ago, Cas Stark said:

The chunks about AA and the prince that was promised that we've heard about since season 2.

AA was not mentioned a single time in the show.

The Prince was mentioned a few times, mostly as Stannis and his Lightbringer.

Jon parentage is still important for the competition for the Iron throne, which is the main topic of "Game of Thrones". See the title. See the intro. It's all about the Iron Throne. It's a bit different from the books.

 

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1 minute ago, Kajjo said:

AA was not mentioned a single time in the show.

The Prince was mentioned a few times, mostly as Stannis and his Lightbringer.

Jon parentage is still important for the competition for the Iron throne, which is the main topic of "Game of Thrones". See the title. See the intro. It's all about the Iron Throne. It's a bit different from the books.

 

I think you missed the point of the whole series. 

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