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BigFatCoward

Football, a Sterling effort, but Virgil got Dijk'd.

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47 minutes ago, The Winged Shadow said:

Total gut punch that scoreline. What a shit thing to wake up to. Gonna be depressed all week now :crying:

I don’t know if it makes it better or worse that they actually played pretty well and deserved at least a draw.

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Ah, some of the "fans" in here...

It's almost as if we didn't just go toe-to-toe (and statistically outperform) one of the best teams in the world, featuring one of the best players of all time, in their own backyard. 

We never sat back, we never tried to play it safe. We came out and played, with notorious big game hunter Firmino crucially not fit enough to start, and if the finishing had been better, we would have had at least two goals (Mo's right footer against the upright and Mané's first half miss).

We've closed the ca. 25 point gap to Man City in the league in one season while still being competitive in the CL, (the only team to make it to the semis the last two years), and we've got a team that's hungry and with a lot of our best players just hitting their prime.

You'd think we were missing out on the EL the way people here are moaning.

Klopp has built a side that's consistently brilliant and that consistently challenges. Obviously, no one is perfect, but if you can't see past yesterday's result and look at the performance, I don't know what to tell you. It's almost as if, *almost*, as if some of you think you could do a better job than Klopp. 

Grow up.

YNWA

NB: If you think we're out of this, it's like you've never watched Liverpool before. I'm not saying it's going to happen or that it's not a long shot, but show a little faith and support.

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How many times can Klopp get close to winning big trophies, but failing, before its considered a character deficiency rather bad luck. I think he's great but you have to win stuff ultimately. 

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Fans who police other people’s feelings are just as annoying as the ultra negative Imo. Yeah this season has been pretty damn amazing but if we win nothing it will be painful to look back on. Not like anyone here is “Klopp out” or anything but he isn’t above criticism. Definitely think he got some things wrong yesterday and no that doesn’t mean I think I could do better :lol:

Last year everyone knew we needed attacking depth and it was made even more apparent when Lallana came on in Kiev and was useless. So we buy Shaqiri who contributed pretty massively first half of the season. Weird we didn’t use him yesterday cause Gini at false 9 was just as useless as Lallana in Kiev. If Klopp doesn’t trust Shaqiri then it’s clear we have to buy a quality player to back up the front three. Wijnaldum playing up top in a CL semi at Barca boggles the mind. Would have rather had Sturridge jogging around or Origi. 

 

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Reliable Milan journos are reporting that Gattuso will leave at the end of the season and that the AC Milan hierarchy have been in contact with Conte.

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34 minutes ago, BigFatCoward said:

How many times can Klopp get close to winning big trophies, but failing, before its considered a character deficiency rather bad luck. I think he's great but you have to win stuff ultimately.  

Depends. If Liverpool indeed finish the league in second place with 97 points, then it's really hard to blame him for that "failure" to win the league. If Liverpool do collapse now after that Barca defeat, then Klopp will probably face some more deserved criticism. The CL title is particularly tough to win, Braca has failed to get into the semi-final for the last couple of years, Guardiola has not won it since he left Barca. The EPL is an uphill battle against City, if they continue to post 95+ points season. Yes, arguably some English Cup should drop rather sooner than later for Liverpool.

As for yesterday, Liverpool were pretty much on the same level as Barca, except where it counts, the goal scoring. Salah and Milner (his second big chance, the one he just shot straight at ter Stegen, was a way bigger miss than Mane's imo), should have scored. And two other good shots where just stopped by ter Stegen, where a lesser keeper might have conceded.

Anyway, let's wait and see what Liverpool will add player wise.

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, BigFatCoward said:

How many times can Klopp get close to winning big trophies, but failing, before its considered a character deficiency rather bad luck. I think he's great but you have to win stuff ultimately. 

Liverpool's last trophy was the League Cup in 2012. Going that long without winning silverware is simply unacceptable for a club like Liverpool but I'd be very surprised if Klopp comes under pressure this season (should Liverpool end up trophyless of course) - finishing a league campaign with 90+ points (possibly as high as 97 points) + a CL semifinal can hardly be considered a failure.

The CL tie isn't over yet either and Barca have suffered some heavy defeats away from home in the CL in recent times (Juventus, PSG and Roma). Considering the state of the squad when Klopp took over, he has bought himself time and goodwill with the massive improvement but he will eventually come under pressure to deliver silverware especially with the squad he now has at his disposal.

Edited by Consigliere

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Posted (edited)

I think people are attributing rather more significance to various selection calls than they actually merit given the game basically came down to Barca taking their chances and Liverpool missing theirs, especially given two of the big ones fell to exactly the players we'd want them to.

3 hours ago, Mark Antony said:

Last year everyone knew we needed attacking depth and it was made even more apparent when Lallana came on in Kiev and was useless. So we buy Shaqiri who contributed pretty massively first half of the season. Weird we didn’t use him yesterday cause Gini at false 9 was just as useless as Lallana in Kiev. If Klopp doesn’t trust Shaqiri then it’s clear we have to buy a quality player to back up the front three. Wijnaldum playing up top in a CL semi at Barca boggles the mind. Would have rather had Sturridge jogging around or Origi.

That's nuts for example.

Yeah, one of the things Liverpool needed after least year was cover for the front 3 but they didn't have unlimited resources. Instead of buying a theoretical top class forward who would have been sitting on the bench had Firmino been fit instead they bought a world class defender, a world class 'keeper and two midfielders they're hoping will be world class all of whom started the game.

On top of that last year in the final when Lallana had to come on Liverpool's game went to shit. Last night we spent significant periods of a game away at the Nou Camp on top of Barcelona and created more than enough chances to have come away with a decent result.

Any of the options to replace Firmino was going to be a step down in some fashion. We could have gone with Shaqiri, he probably would have been more creative, but is it a particular surprise a player with concerns about his work rate wasn't what they went with? A Sturridge who can't run would have been a disaster and I don't see what Origi was going to offer that Mane and Salah weren't already providing. Klopp went with Wijnaldum to try and keep up the pressing and link play Firmino offers and, no, it wasn't a tactical masterstroke that caused Barcelona to unravel but it was fine. Again, we spent half the game as the better side.

Edited by ljkeane

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Ngl im kind of sick about hearing how Liverpool controlled the game or whatever. So did Porto in the first half of the second leg against us. Doesn’t mean much if you’re not clinical. We controlled lots of the game despite playing a guy who has played defensive midfielder the majority of the season at striker not because of it. You can’t tell me having a proper forward in instead of Gini would have made last night worse, he was not effective in the slightest :dunno: 

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You could have started with Keita at the tip of the diamond and Wijnaldum in midfield. Wijnaldum's workrate and pressing is not something out of this world that it makes up for his lack of creativity. Keita could have done that as well and his creative ability and better attacking instincts would have been much more useful in that advanced position. Once Keita got injured then it became a more difficult question especially if Firmino was deemed not fit enough to play 70 minutes. Gomez for TAA was just baffling. @Soylent Brown even mentioned before the game that Gomez at RB is not better defensively than TAA and so it proved to be the case. So sacrificing TAA's vastly superior creative ability for no better defensive stability was a waste. 

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8 minutes ago, Consigliere said:

Wijnaldum's workrate and pressing is not something out of this world

His work rate and pressing were god awful in the first half. He got into the game a bit in the second half but he was clearly uncomfortable in that role. 

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Posted (edited)
14 minutes ago, Consigliere said:

You could have started with Keita at the tip of the diamond and Wijnaldum in midfield. Wijnaldum's workrate and pressing is not something out of this world that it makes up for his lack of creativity. Keita could have done that as well and his creative ability and better attacking instincts would have been much more useful in that advanced position.

It's an option. I think they wanted Keita to stay on the left because he's probably the most likely of Liverpool's midfielders to get forward and contribute in attack and still be able to get back and double up on Messi. I think that was fair enough, him going off injured was a big blow.

14 minutes ago, Consigliere said:

 Gomez for TAA was just baffling. @Soylent Brown even mentioned before the game that Gomez at RB is not better defensively than TAA and so it proved to be the case. So sacrificing TAA's vastly superior creative ability for no better defensive stability was a waste. 

I think that Gomez isn't better than Alexander-Arnold defensively is debatable. He started off fairly rusty but he grew into the game reasonably well. Regardless, what Gomez certainly does a lot less than Alexander-Arnold is get caught ahead of the ball.

I do think with the benefit of hindsight this probably was the wrong call. Klopp was probably expecting us to spend more time on the back foot than we actually did and the expectation was for Gomez to tuck in a bit next to Matip and Milner to cover Alba. Given how much time we spent in Barcelona's half having Alexander-Arnold's better passing probably would have been the better option. I don't think it really made much difference in the end though. 

Edited by ljkeane

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Blubbing about fans saying mean things about their own teams and then telling people to grow up. Right.

 

Regarding Gomez- he was caught ahead of the ball numerous times. He was all of the liabilities but none of the positives of TAA last night. And TAA not playing probably didn't make a difference? Much the same as Firmino not playing didn't?

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Gacinovic giving up the chance to make it 2-0 to try and get Christensen sent off for a slight hold. :bang:

All Chelsea after that and they equalise after Frankfurt on top for 40 mins.

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Will take that after the horror week we've had 

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1 hour ago, Raja said:

Will take that after the horror week we've had 

Europa is the only way we'll get a CL place so we better win these next two matches (return leg and final).

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1 hour ago, MercurialCannibal said:

toon will get at least a point of not all three vs liverpool saturday.

 

 

Don't make me dream

6 minutes ago, Jeor said:

Europa is the only way we'll get a CL place so we better win these next two matches (return leg and final).

I know I shouldn't, but I'm holding out hope chelsea lose one of their next two. No way we win our next two PL fixtures though. 

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1-1 away from home was not a bad result for Chelsea. Eintracht Frankfurt were quite a step up in level from the other teams we had played in the Europa League.

In the first half, they pressed Chelsea really well, barely giving us a chance to make a string of complete passes or get a pass to our forwards without them losing the ball. I thought we played much better in the second half, and had more than enough good chances to score a winner. Loftus-Cheek in particular stepped it up and was driving through Frankfurt's midfield brilliantly. Frankfurt players must have tired themselves out pressing in the first half, because a few went down with cramp in the second.

 

 

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