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The Great Unwashed

Avengers Endgame- SPOILERS II

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9 hours ago, The Anti-Targ said:

Since you're not watching it.

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Matt was initially highly annoyed when watching the movie that the fate of life in the universe hinged on such an improbable thing. But crunching the numbers about rats and their behaviour concludes that within a 5-year period it is close to certain that a rat will walk across that button. Of the 14 million and something different versions of the future Dr Strange looked at, only 4 of those versions didn't have a rat triggering Ant Man's return. So I'm guessing if he saw the future in that detail he was happy that the rat issue wasn't going to be a problem, since it was just 4 of the 14 million and something -1 possible futures that don't work out.

So, interesting that anyone who was annoyed by the rat thing has no statistical basis for being annoyed, and it is in fact one of the most plausible aspects of the movie. 

 

Sorry, I was just at work at the time ... didn’t mean to imply I wouldn’t watch it. :) I’ll check it out.

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8 hours ago, The Anti-Targ said:

Or to put in smaller and fewer words, the movie that makes $3Bn will probably be made by Disney.

If Endgame cant do it I cant see what will. Though I think the lion king might sneak past 2 billion. 

What amazes me is how far behind in adjusted box office Endgame is to ANH, its sold less than half the tickets to a far bigger population in North America.

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3 hours ago, BigFatCoward said:

If Endgame cant do it I cant see what will. Though I think the lion king might sneak past 2 billion. 

What amazes me is how far behind in adjusted box office Endgame is to ANH, its sold less than half the tickets to a far bigger population in North America.

I think the big difference comes in that SW and Av were game-changers - nothing like that had been seen before.

Endgame is the culmination of 10 years build-up. That 10 year build-up has never really been done before (but kinda has, just less intensively), but in and of itself, it's more of the same.

Equally, at the time, SW and Av essentially didn't have the option of watching at home in 6 months time. If you wanted to see it 3 times, you went to the cinema 3 times; both essentially launched new ways of watching films at home, Endgame... won't.

Edited by Which Tyler

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3 hours ago, BigFatCoward said:

If Endgame cant do it I cant see what will. Though I think the lion king might sneak past 2 billion. 

What amazes me is how far behind in adjusted box office Endgame is to ANH, its sold less than half the tickets to a far bigger population in North America.

Something will eventually hit $3Bn.

I think I've said somewhere else I don;t think you can just look at simple adjusted for inflation figures. There are really 4 eras for movies in terms of being able to compare attendance figures rather than box office gross, and it's all around what competes with movies for people's eyeball attention: Pre-TV, TV, VHS and streaming. And you could add a DVD era in there too, since DVD introduced pirated content in a way that pretty much didn't exist with VHS and earlier eras, though I imagine the was a bit of piracy in VHS times.

ANH was in the TV era so there was only TV as screen entertainment competition for movies, and TV was really not much competition for quality sound and visuals. Video tape released in the USA the same year as ANH, but it launched a few months after ANH so there was no competition there.

Titanic was in the VHS/DVD era, so it's performance is more comparable to Endgame, but streaming is a factor. So really the only apples to apples comparison is Avatar. Even if Endgame narrowly passes Avatar it will still be ahead in audience numbers.

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4 hours ago, Which Tyler said:

Equally, at the time, SW and Av essentially didn't have the option of watching at home in 6 months time. If you wanted to see it 3 times, you went to the cinema 3 times; both essentially launched new ways of watching films at home, Endgame... won't.

This is what i was going to say - when SW came out, if you didn't see it in a theatre, you didn't see it.  Now I can generally count on 2 fingers the number of movies I have to see in a theatre and what I will wait for.  This year was Capt Marvel and Endgame.  I might even go see Endgame again before buying it and watching it a dozen times at home.

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I think for a lot of people seeing movies in the Theatre is more like an event than a regular occurrence. I used to go to the cinema once a week but now its far rarer. My local theatre has actually reduced its prices, probably in response to low viewership. 

Low risk movie making has become the norm now, so everything has to be a franchise, built on another property's fame or a sequel. 

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9 hours ago, DaveSumm said:

Interestingly, the writers ...wanted Cap to end up with this timeline’s Peggy.  It makes sense why Cap didn’t come back on the platform.... Oh, and they shut down those alternate timelines...

I suspect the Russo’s wanted it this way but realised it didn’t make sense based on the rules they established earlier in the film. 

Yes!    Finally, the sanity has come back to Endgame interpretation.

Am

Alec Baldwin.

(God).

  The surface level viewer, me, without interference from comics fanhood, saw the movie this way, the way the writers wanted me to.   

It's more about one timeline than not, by the end.  Our Peggy got a happy life, not just our Rogers.     

Loki lived, and is free to disappear forever, or, when a future movie wants him back, he's free to pollute our timeline again with his next reindeer games. 

Bringing things back more toward one timeline would make Mjolnir's absence from Thor2 iffy, and so too Thanos' new absence from 5 years of our history.  But I say roll those changes over into Guardians 3 to make that movie more interesting and wide open creatively:

 "Surprise, Banner!", the history of our timeline has changed greatly due to Thanos not messing with the galaxy!

Alas, things will be less consistant than that in the cosmic phase.  The Russos probably went with the multiple timelines thing after they got wind that the multiverse was coming for the next phase, so they started doing and saying what they could to help birth it.

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Quote

 

Finally, the sanity has come back to Endgame interpretation.

[...]

The surface level viewer, me, without interference from comics fanhood, saw the movie this way, the way the writers wanted me to.   

 

doubtful that this is 'sanity,' as there's nothing to warrant tethering the interpretation of a text to the significance attributed to it by its purported author.

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1 hour ago, The Mother of The Others said:

Yes!    Finally, the sanity has come back to Endgame interpretation.

Am

Alec Baldwin.

(God).

  The surface level viewer, me, without interference from comics fanhood, saw the movie this way, the way the writers wanted me to.   

It's more about one timeline than not, by the end.  Our Peggy got a happy life, not just our Rogers.     

Loki lived, and is free to disappear forever, or, when a future movie wants him back, he's free to pollute our timeline again with his next reindeer games. 

Bringing things back more toward one timeline would make Mjolnir's absence from Thor2 iffy, and so too Thanos' new absence from 5 years of our history.  But I say roll those changes over into Guardians 3 to make that movie more interesting and wide open creatively:

 "Surprise, Banner!", the history of our timeline has changed greatly due to Thanos not messing with the galaxy!

Alas, things will be less consistant than that in the cosmic phase.  The Russos probably went with the multiple timelines thing after they got wind that the multiverse was coming for the next phase, so they started doing and saying what they could to help birth it.

Not sure if you watched the whole interview (it is long, but quite good, the interviewer is clearly a fan and asks some good questions) but when I said they shut down those timelines, I meant the writers shut down the whole theory. Stealing a stone is the only thing that can create an alternate timeline, so if you leave that timeline without one as Cap would have done, it ceases to exist. There’s no rogue Loki, no world without Thanos, the MCU just happened as it had always happened.

Having Old Cap be in our timeline is the more emotionally resonant option, but it just doesn’t quite work based on those rules. It’s like asking what would happen if Tony has just stayed in 2012 after travelling back, at what point does that universe stop existing if he never steals a stone and leaves? I guess it doesn’t, it exists as long as someone is there to exist in it.

The only window we have is that Cap would’ve had a conversation with The Ancient One before he went back. Maybe he ran his plan past her, and she had a fix that placed him in the MCU past and not an alt past, a fix too complicated for our tiny mortal minds to comprehend.

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Yeah i listened to the whole tubing.  I listen to stuff!   Even to Sologdin.  I know Guardians 3 won't really be doing that altered timeline to reflect Thanos' absence.  I'm just saying it'd be preferable to me if they did it that way.  Just like MCU went away from what these writers did to give us a spiderman multiverse next, apparently, the current Russo model of time alteration could be changed just by MCU deciding to go in a different direction.  Hulk's scientific understanding of this stuff doesn't have to be right. 

Sad if Loki's escape didn't stick.  I guess his tv show will have the official version of how he's still alive, though, so for the moment the jury is still out, smoking and dicing and fornicating like juries do.

On the plus side, using this model of time travel we can now steal the same bottle of Henessy from the past 1,000,000,000 times without the past noticing, because it'll still be there on their shelf when they look for it.  An entire army of Steve Rogers clones can now each be equipped with a Mjolnir of his very own.   It's the end of scarcity!  Star Trek future here we come!

 

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22 hours ago, DaveSumm said:

Interestingly, the writers disagree with what the Russo’s have said and wanted Cap to end up with this timeline’s Peggy. They qualify it with them not being the ‘official’ version of anything, but it makes sense why Cap didn’t come back on the platform. Also cool that they point out there could be two semi-super kids of Cap running around.

I suspect the Russo’s wanted it this way but realised it didn’t make sense based on the rules they established earlier in the film. 

Oh, and they shut down those alternate timelines to which I’m glad about.

They SAY there's no alternate timelines, because they say you only create an alternate timeline when you muck around with the stones. Well, Loki made off with the Tesseract, when that's not what happened originally, so doesn't that make for an alternate timeline? Though interestingly, the Tesseract is tucked away in Asgard between Avengers 1 and Thor Ragnarok, So its power is not needed for anything at all to happen, and it's Loki who hands Thanos the space stone at the beginning of Infinity War / immediately after Ragnarok.

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20 minutes ago, The Anti-Targ said:

They SAY there's no alternate timelines, because they say you only create an alternate timeline when you muck around with the stones. Well, Loki made off with the Tesseract, when that's not what happened originally, so doesn't that make for an alternate timeline? Though interestingly, the Tesseract is tucked away in Asgard between Avengers 1 and Thor Ragnarok, So its power is not needed for anything at all to happen, and it's Loki who hands Thanos the space stone at the beginning of Infinity War / immediately after Ragnarok.

It’s only removing a stone from its continuity that creates an alternate timeline, Loki would’ve just gone somewhere else in space in the same timeline.

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In summary, as I have said before:

- Nobody has a clue how this works,

- Future writers will have it work in whatever way they want.

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Well, I just finally got around to watching it. It was okay I suppose, although I realise now that I am really feeling the MCU fatigue at this point. 

I didn't like the Old Steve Rogers scene. Not just because of the timeline crap, but because I think it would have been more effective in just cutting right to Steve/Peggy dancing. That said, I would watch an Anthony Mackie Captain America film.

Fat Thor was pretty funny, and I appreciate that they went a bold route with the character...but I do think they should have resolved it in this film. Thor is kind of still a broken man at the end. But hey, look out for Asgardians of the Galaxy!

Iron Man stuff was done well I think. The best parts of the film were the Hawkeye/BW stuff though. 

Also, was that Quicksilver at the end?

 

 

Best part of the whole thing was the extended Godzilla trailer though.

 

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So who here's familiar with the texts from superheroes website? It's funny, but it also pointed out they gave themselves a way to get young Cap back if they want.

https://66.media.tumblr.com/e32f3e46a65e508532af5cf6ef8d3fa9/tumblr_prioitQBE81rxjb9io1_1280.png

Course they probably won't use it, but it's still a cool thought.

Also when you think about it things are pretty terrible for Thor, he's long lived so he's going to have to deal with his loss for a long time. Cap gets to go back and live with the women he loves, nobody gave Thor that option.

https://textsfromsuperheroes.com/image/184747991589

Edited by TrueMetis

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8 hours ago, Leap said:

Well, I just finally got around to watching it. It was okay I suppose, although I realise now that I am really feeling the MCU fatigue at this point. 

I didn't like the Old Steve Rogers scene. Not just because of the timeline crap, but because I think it would have been more effective in just cutting right to Steve/Peggy dancing. That said, I would watch an Anthony Mackie Captain America film.

Fat Thor was pretty funny, and I appreciate that they went a bold route with the character...but I do think they should have resolved it in this film. Thor is kind of still a broken man at the end. But hey, look out for Asgardians of the Galaxy!

Iron Man stuff was done well I think. The best parts of the film were the Hawkeye/BW stuff though. 

Also, was that Quicksilver at the end?

 

umm... no? Are you talking about the solitary teenager at Tony's memorial? That was the kid who helped him in Iron Man 3.

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13 hours ago, Corvinus said:

umm... no? Are you talking about the solitary teenager at Tony's memorial? That was the kid who helped him in Iron Man 3.

Yeah, that kid. Looks a lot like the X-Men actor anyway

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8 hours ago, Leap said:

Yeah, that kid. Looks a lot like the X-Men actor anyway

Aaron Taylor-Johnson played QS in the MCU films -- they definitely aren't touching any of the FoX-verse actors with a 3000 foot pole.

RE: The conflicting theories of the Russos and Markus & McFeely, I think it's fine. My takeaway from the movie is that, within the context of the movie, they ALL did well. They established rules where they needed to and kept everything else vague. This means the audience can reach their own conclusions. I have my theory. I strongly believe in my theory. But the brilliant thing is that everyone can strongly believe in their theory, making the film somewhat endurable to scrutiny.

My issue comes into play with the Russos and writers talking about their theories. I would've preferred them to just say, "Listen, we told the story we wanted to tell. Everything is within those three hours. Do YOU think Cap and Peg lived out their lives in an alternate timeline?" By putting it back to the audience, they can keep the movie protected. The people protecting the movie will be, ironically, the two groups of people arguing that their theory is the correct theory.

Then again, by both parties taking opposing sides, I think we have a wonderful, yet infuriating scenario, where everyone feels like they're validated in what they think.

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