Dothraki and Unsullied

[loverofcats]

22 minutes ago, Nightwish said:

I am talking about the last episode and their contribution to the great battle which we don’t know because we didn’t see, we can only assume they did some damage or perhaps they were overrun by the zombies and made no difference at all. 

It feels very short and omg this is a battle Dothraki are supposed to be fighters and fierce. Didn’t they deserve a scene there?

I agree with you, but I think D&D chose to be that way for the visual effect. The flames winking off in darkness.

[Nightwish]

2 minutes ago, loverofcats said:

I agree with you, but I think D&D chose to be that way for the visual effect. The flames winking off in darkness.

 

They just choose the cheapest way around it. 

[loverofcats]

3 minutes ago, Nightwish said:

 

They just choose the cheapest way around it. 

Agree

[7Silvers]

3 hours ago, Nerevanin said:

All Dany has now is Drogon because Rhaegal (if he is alive) will probably stick to his rider.

They are both alive.. you see both of her dragons in the trailer for ep.4.  

[King Perkis]

1 hour ago, MinscS2 said:

 

The dothraki breaking the line and charging into the blackness was not a part of the original battleplan. 
It was however, fully in line with the impetuousness and recklessness of the dothraki, and showcased a major difference between them and the unyielding, utterly steadfast Unsullied. 

Daenerys is visibly shaken and breaks the plan as well by flying away, after she see's her people butchered in front of her.

 

Can you expand on this?  I heard the rush by the Dothraki was a mistake due to them being excited after having fire.  That is why we saw Jorah somewhere in the middle during the charge.    Have you seen anything to back that up?

[MinscS2]

2 minutes ago, King Perkis said:

Can you expand on this?  I heard the rush by the Dothraki was a mistake due to them being excited after having fire.  That is why we saw Jorah somewhere in the middle during the charge.    Have you seen anything to back that up?

1) Common sense. The dothraki are impetuous, Mel lightning their arraks on fire pushed them over the edge.
2) Their battleplan in the last episode all being about holding the line, not a single word about the dothraki assaulting into pitch darkness.
3) Jon and Daenerys reaction to the whole spectacle. Their plan was to wait for and ambush the NK. Daenerys flying off meant that something has clearly gone awry. 
 

[King Perkis]

10 minutes ago, MinscS2 said:

1) Common sense. The dothraki are impetuous, Mel lightning their arraks on fire pushed them over the edge.
2) Their battleplan in the last episode all being about holding the line, not a single word about the dothraki assaulting into pitch darkness.
3) Jon and Daenerys reaction to the whole spectacle. Their plan was to wait for and ambush the NK. Daenerys flying off meant that something has clearly gone awry. 
 

Lol was there an actual battle plan?  And I assumed due to the Dany/Jon part but didn't know if anyone just came out and said it from the show.

[Nightwish]

20 minutes ago, MinscS2 said:

1) Common sense. The dothraki are impetuous, Mel lightning their arraks on fire pushed them over the edge.
2) Their battleplan in the last episode all being about holding the line, not a single word about the dothraki assaulting into pitch darkness.
3) Jon and Daenerys reaction to the whole spectacle. Their plan was to wait for and ambush the NK. Daenerys flying off meant that something has clearly gone awry. 
 

 

Not that it makes any difference as the script writers decided to get rid of the Dothraki  all together in a very quick way, but I am also under the impression that it was expected of them to ride first in the pitch dark. For example Dany and John are silently watching and no one of the two wonders "what's going on? why did they leave? especially Dany and right after the arches begin to support them (who again shot at the pitch black).

LOL this is funny but honestly in the pitch dark? What army attacks this way? 

 

[Nymeria Stone]

13 hours ago, Targaryen Peas said:

I don't think it is stupid. Standing ground with the Dothraki would have been as stupid as charging; the power of cavalry comes from the charge, they could have done nothing staying on the horses and waiting.

 

There's charging and charging. 

Charging blindly towards an enemy you can't see and you've never fought before is plain stupid. They could've at least split the troops to attack from the sides idk. Anything but that.

[Wik]

5 hours ago, Nightwish said:

What was the point of Dothraki charging against the dark unknown in the first place? 

Several people on the boards here think that if you ride a horse, that means your only value is to charge and so being the military titans they are, thought this was the only reasonable use of the Dothraki and so praised the charge as a realistic expenditure of their lives based on what they believe to be "standard" tactics. 

No one gets the difference between Dothraki LIGHT cavalry  VS heavily armored knights of Westeros and what their actual role within an army is. It is SO frustrating. 

[Nightwish]

6 minutes ago, Wik said:

Several people on the boards here think that if you ride a horse, that means your only value is to charge and so being the military titans they are, thought this was the only reasonable use of the Dothraki and so praised the charge as a realistic expenditure of their lives based on what they believe to be "standard" tactics. 

No one gets the difference between Dothraki LIGHT cavalry  VS heavily armored knights of Westeros and what their actual role within an army is. It is SO frustrating. 

 

All the plan was problematic but especially the Dothraki part was screaming out the intentions of the producers: let’s wipe them out fast. Thus the pitch black because in any other case they would have to show the battle. It’s not nice if behind the scenes we can see the stitches. Plus makes all the characters who organized the attack to appear stupid. Again. 

[Larger than Average Finger]

14 hours ago, Targaryen Peas said:

I don't think it is stupid. Standing ground with the Dothraki would have been as stupid as charging; the power of cavalry comes from the charge, they could have done nothing staying on the horses and waiting.

As for the unsullied, I think they performed perfectly, they bought as much time as possible, and even though we saw some of them run out of fear. They still fought bravely. 

 

So, did the Dothraki go extinct after this? 

If they had to beat the dead on the field, the best was to use them would likely have been sweep through aster dragon passes to clean out survivors,

[Runaway Penguin]

Then again having the Unsullied and everyone else in front of the ditches and the catapults in front of them also made no sense. Any infantry commander worth his bread would have a line of watchfires, then a line of obstacles (not even necessary fiery ones) right in front of the infantry - that way the obstacles would break the momentuym of blindly charging horde and allow people with pointy stabby thing to poke at them from relative safety. Have several lines of such obstacles and retreat from them the moment they look like untenable, not the moment enemy breaks through. The wights COULD do technical stuff (as seen by retrieving Viserion) but that presumably requires a lot of focus from their handlers, hence preferred method is wild frenzy - and against that the obstacles will work even abandoned.

Have artillery behind the last line of defense, shooting over the heads of defenders.

Do not rely on dragons or fire arrows to light fire trenches. Heck, you have fires around the catapults, so have torches ready! If Mel did not show up, they would be all toast.

If Mel shows to be able to light swords en masse... Why not light ALL the swords of everyone?

As for tactical use of Dothraki... Very limited... But better off as melee infantry. Arakhs would do a solid on anything that is not armored, esp. if flaming.

Then again, Winterfell misses soo  many standard castle construction tricks. Such as proper gatehouses, moats... So for all we know the tactic was "Planetos state-of-the-art"

 

 

[Macklunkey]

They really should have fired off a few balls from the trebuchets first before the mad charge. 

[King Perkis]

14 minutes ago, Runaway Penguin said:

Do not rely on dragons or fire arrows to light fire trenches. Heck, you have fires around the catapults, so have torches ready! If Mel did not show up, they would be all toast.

Not saying the show is good at following its own logic, but how exactly were the dragons going to light the trenches?  We saw them burn wooden ships to a crisp in Slavers Bay and then we saw them basically eviscerate people/wagons outside of KL.  So, if used they would have just burnt all the wooden stakes to a crisp, right?

[tallTale]

The Dothraki followed Dany across the sea because they saw her as a god. Whoops.

[MinscS2]

2 minutes ago, tallTale said:

The Dothraki followed Dany across the sea because they saw her as a god. Whoops.

Tehnically they followed her because they only follow strength, and she did kill all the khals = she's the strongest there is in their eyes.
Being viewed as a godess has nothing to do with it, even if it's makes some sense that some would view her this way.
(Just as the wildlings view Jon as "some kind of god" after his resurrection and...well...they're kinda diminished as well.)

[Wik]

Frankly, I am just tired of all the made up excuses surrounding the Dothraki. Flat out, it was dumb. Even if it wasn't part of the plan, why have your cavalry in the front line??? Makes zero sense. They should have been behind, or on a flank. To be honest, they should have had a token force outside and a majority on the walls of Winterfell. And as has been mentioned a ton of times, the trebs being in the spot they were was dumb as shit too. 

Plain and simple, no excuses. It was trash. 

[Runaway Penguin]

26 minutes ago, King Perkis said:

Not saying the show is good at following its own logic, but how exactly were the dragons going to light the trenches?  We saw them burn wooden ships to a crisp in Slavers Bay and then we saw them basically eviscerate people/wagons outside of KL.  So, if used they would have just burnt all the wooden stakes to a crisp, right?

Don't ask me, wasn't my plan  Then again I guess the idea was for a short burst to set them on fire on one place.

 

But still it was dumb. Builders of Winterfell were dumb, engineering obstacles in battle were dumb and the tactical deployment was dumb, let alone combat technique.

[King Perkis]

16 minutes ago, Runaway Penguin said:

Don't ask me, wasn't my plan  Then again I guess the idea was for a short burst to set them on fire on one place.

 

But still it was dumb. Builders of Winterfell were dumb, engineering obstacles in battle were dumb and the tactical deployment was dumb, let alone combat technique.

Agreed.  It annoys me that Ramsey was able to build some Flaying men and light them on fire during the BoB and yet, Jon did not have the sense to make fire pits throughout the battlefield in order to see.