Dothraki and Unsullied

[Cas Stark]

Um, Jon Snow had again, zero to do with winning back Winterfell.  if you recall, he did a stupid suicide charge and would have died if not for Sansa and the Vale army. So, he gets credit for literally nothing.  Well, he did get one of Dany's dragons killed, so there's that in the accomplishment list.  He got himself killed.  He was told to fuck off by the Northern lords until Davos and pint size made speeches.  THen he's made King and fucks off to Dragonstone, where Dany tells him to fuck off.  Then he goes on another suicide mission, where then, Dany is convinced to help [which let me remind you, her 'helping' cost  her a dragon, all of the Dothraki and much of the Unsullied for no reason because:Arya. Then, he's back at WF and helps create one of the dumbest battle plans in cinema history.  During the battle, he is useless.

This guy should already be dead, his story is a dead end.  Oh yeah, and somewhere along the way he found out his true heritage, which he had to know before the battle, but turns out, again, it is useless.

ETA, oh I forgot, he goes to the big powwow with Cersei and he fucks that up too, because Jon Snow knows nothing and cannot tell a lie.  Christ, this doofus is not fit to manage anything.

[#teamNightking]

2 minutes ago, Cas Stark said:

Um, Jon Snow had again, zero to do with winning back Winterfell.

As worthless as Jon has been he shouldn't be King of anything. Nor Daenerys. At this point I think Cersei is the best candidate for the Iron Throne. At least she's smart. 

[RhaenysBee]

17 minutes ago, Wik said:

What really makes me laugh is that, GENERALLY, if you only have watched the show, you think everything is amazing.

If you are an avid fan for years and read and re-read the novels multiple times.....thats when you start seeing the true hate....

I don’t think so. I read the books once like 8 years ago. I’ve watched season 1 and 2 twice and I followed Got on this forum. That and a basic demand for narrative coherence are just enough for later seasons to be an utter torture. 

[Cas Stark]

1 hour ago, RhaenysBee said:

Look, it’s a matter of perception.  The creators clearly thought it looked cool and I’m sure a million fans who rated this shit 10/10 on IMDb agreed. And it’s not like it looked bad, but it’s just not something I can appreciate when the context is so painfully stupid. 

It did look cool.  I give them that.  But, sacrificing logic and the entire Dothraki people for a cool shot is bad writing. 

I also thought that Mel's role was cool, even though, again, a little dialogue would have gone a long way. 

Jorah has never met her, has he? So, some crazy woman rolls up out of nowhere and demands to touch the Dothraki, right before the battle?  Hmm, seems dodgy, maybe ask a couple of questions there, but Jorah is just okay, same with the Dothraki dude, not even a 2 line exchange where she can throw around some  Essos mythos that the Dothraki will respond to, nope, nothing.  Then, the stupid fire pit won't light and Grey Worm just FUCKING LOOKS AT HER, and he knows...and out she goes surrounded by Unsullied, which again, looked cool, but is not remotely realistic.  And I can forgive some of this, but when it ends up a giant mountain of implausibility on top of implausibility on top of story destroying decisions. . Yeah, naw, hate watching it is for the final 3

[RhaenysBee]

Just now, Cas Stark said:

It did look cool.  I give them that.  But, sacrificing logic and the entire Dothraki people for a cool shot is bad writing. 

I also thought that Mel's role was cool, even though, again, a little dialogue would have gone a long way. 

Jorah has never met her, has he? So, some crazy woman rolls up out of nowhere and demands to touch the Dothraki, right before the battle?  Hmm, seems dodgy, maybe ask a couple of questions there, but Jorah is just okay, same with the Dothraki dude, not even a 2 line exchange where she can throw around some  Essos mythos that the Dothraki will respond to, nope, nothing.  Then, the stupid fire pit won't light and Grey Worm just FUCKING LOOKS AT HER, and he knows...and out she goes surrounded by Unsullied, which again, looked cool, but is not remotely realistic.  And I can forgive some of this, but when it ends up a giant mountain of implausibility on top of implausibility on top of story destroying decisions. . Yeah, naw, hate watching it is for the final 3

Couldn’t agree more. 

I mean yeah the shots were cool, I just wish I could have appreciated it with the shitshow context. 

[Cas Stark]

It would also have been nice if in the 2 pre battle episodes we got a short scene with the Dothraki out in their tents, maybe talking about their own culture's take on the NK mythology or a Dosh Khaleen or something, to remind us that these people have a specific set of attitudes toward war and battle....  It could have been done in 3 minutes.  It might even have have given a little bit of context for the suicide charge.

I would say the same should have been done for the Unsullied but they really are a faceless robot army, so GW is all that is needed there I guess.

[divica]

1 minute ago, Cas Stark said:

It did look cool.  I give them that.  But, sacrificing logic and the entire Dothraki people for a cool shot is bad writing. 

I also thought that Mel's role was cool, even though, again, a little dialogue would have gone a long way. 

Jorah has never met her, has he? So, some crazy woman rolls up out of nowhere and demands to touch the Dothraki, right before the battle?  Hmm, seems dodgy, maybe ask a couple of questions there, but Jorah is just okay, same with the Dothraki dude, not even a 2 line exchange where she can throw around some  Essos mythos that the Dothraki will respond to, nope, nothing.  Then, the stupid fire pit won't light and Grey Worm just FUCKING LOOKS AT HER, and he knows...and out she goes surrounded by Unsullied, which again, looked cool, but is not remotely realistic.  And I can forgive some of this, but when it ends up a giant mountain of implausibility on top of implausibility on top of story destroying decisions. . Yeah, naw, hate watching it is for the final 3

It didn t look good. I think this is the first battle in tv where the main characters don t have fights with special bad guys.

I have no idea why nobody had epic fights against the NK, wws, viserion or even Giants (whatever lyanna did was too stupid to count). They had several great bad guys and didn t use any of them! It was just mindless killing of nameless wights...

And I won t even continue talking about the inconsisties in their battle plan or the dificulty in seeing what is happening… (they didn t had enough archers on the walls after loosing the dothriaki lol)

9 minutes ago, RhaenysBee said:

I don’t think so. I read the books once like 8 years ago. I’ve watched season 1 and 2 twice and I followed Got on this forum. That and a basic demand for narrative coherence are just enough for later seasons to be an utter torture. 

Even for show only watchers. This episode destroys several stories and tensions they have been building for years. The AA/ptwp profecy, bran, jon, danny and mel now make no sense!

[divica]

23 minutes ago, Cas Stark said:

This guy should already be dead, his story is a dead end.  Oh yeah, and somewhere along the way he found out his true heritage, which he had to know before the battle, but turns out, again, it is useless.

I think this is a record. They made it essencial for jon to learn the truth before the battle and then we have neither a proper reaction from him and his cousins/danny nor was it important for the battle.

What was really the point? why do it? Neither sam or bran even died to justify telling him before their death….

[MinscS2]

8 hours ago, divica said:

I think this is a record. They made it essencial for jon to learn the truth before the battle and then we have neither a proper reaction from him and his cousins/danny nor was it important for the battle.

What was really the point? why do it? Neither sam or bran even died to justify telling him before their death….

Regardless of ones personal opinions about Jon (and Daenerys), I think most, if not all of us who watches the show can agree on this.
Sam telling Jon in E1 and Jon telling Daenerys in E2 has, for all intents and purposes, been more or less pointless thus far.
Why Bran decided that "it was time to tell Jon" in E1 is anyone's guess.

The only thing I can think of is that the fact that Jon and Daenerys both got to know before the battle will make them realize that how little it matters between them, due to both having plenty of near-death experiences in the latest episode.
(They both knew, yet they both seemingly still cared about each other and fought on as allies, which means that whatever feelings they had on the matter, where not strong enough to cloud their judgement during the battle. Daenerys never showed a hint of wanting to off Jon at an opportune moment, and Jon was clear minded enough to still focus on Bran even with Daenerys being in danger, etc.)

This way it potentially causes less drama the next episode when they (hopefully) bring it up again, than it otherwise would've had if they hadn't been "distracted". 



 

[Tywin Tytosson]

On 4/30/2019 at 12:31 AM, Targaryen Peas said:

Definitely a hint from producers, or a trap. 

I guess so, but we didn't see them in the crypts if I remember correctly. 

I think that the point of having a shit ton of boat was to be able to take all of them. They were all ready to follow her that's why I wondered.  

The point of all the boats was to carry all of the horses, and the fodder for those horses

[Tywin Tytosson]

On 4/30/2019 at 11:36 AM, King Roberts beard said:

They really should have fired off a few balls from the trebuchets first before the mad charge. 

That's evidence that the Dothraki charge was unanticipated by the rest of the army.

[Tywin Tytosson]

On 4/30/2019 at 8:37 AM, MinscS2 said:

1) Common sense. The dothraki are impetuous, Mel lightning their arraks on fire pushed them over the edge.
2) Their battleplan in the last episode all being about holding the line, not a single word about the dothraki assaulting into pitch darkness.
3) Jon and Daenerys reaction to the whole spectacle. Their plan was to wait for and ambush the NK. Daenerys flying off meant that something has clearly gone awry. 
 

[Tywin Tytosson]

On 4/30/2019 at 8:50 AM, King Perkis said:

Lol was there an actual battle plan?  And I assumed due to the Dany/Jon part but didn't know if anyone just came out and said it from the show.

The plan was outlined in episode 2.

[Tywin Tytosson]

9 hours ago, divica said:

I have no idea why nobody had epic fights against the NK, wws, viserion or even Giants (whatever lyanna did was too stupid to count). They had several great bad guys and didn t use any of them! It was just mindless killing of nameless wights...

 

Short answer - because nobody could really beat the NK or viserion or a giant in a straight fight.

Judging by what we saw of his reaction speeds, the NK would have made short work of Jon or any other human in a one-on-one swordfight

Different answer - because the NK (and the WW) did what every other GoT character has done when given the option of a single swordfight vs using their troops to do the deed.  Rob Stark and Ramsay Bolton come to mind.  Why risk yourself when you don't have to?

Quibble - what Lyanna did was the only way outside of dragonfire or a lucky arrow to take out a giant.

[The Chequered Raven]

On 4/30/2019 at 11:20 AM, Nightwish said:

What was the point of Dothraki charging against the dark unknown in the first place? 

This will be one of the questions generations of schoolars will debate over centuries...

Without finding an answer!

[Runaway Penguin]

On 4/30/2019 at 11:20 AM, Nightwish said:

What was the point of Dothraki charging against the dark unknown in the first place? 

It seems the true original script for the segment was found... As good explanation as any

 

[Macklunkey]

1 hour ago, Tywin Tytosson said:

That's evidence that the Dothraki charge was unanticipated by the rest of the army.

Yep. It's clear now having done a re-watch.

[darmody]

2 hours ago, Tywin Tytosson said:

The plan was outlined in episode 2.

Bran as bait was outlined, and that was pretty much it. 

[darmody]

2 hours ago, Tywin Tytosson said:

Short answer - because nobody could really beat the NK or viserion or a giant in a straight fight.

Judging by what we saw of his reaction speeds, the NK would have made short work of Jon or any other human in a one-on-one swordfight

Uh, what? Diminutive females bested both the Night King and a zombie giant in straight fights. Granted, Arya snuck up on NK. But he had every chance to prevent her from stabbing him. For instance, popping her head off with the Ice Grip in which he had her throat. Speaking of reaction times, she outdid him with dexterity and hand speed.

Little Lady Bear killed the giant because it lifted her up to its face and didn't squeeze her to death immediately for no reason. That was a square fight. 

[dbunting]

2 hours ago, Tywin Tytosson said:

Short answer - because nobody could really beat the NK or viserion or a giant in a straight fight.

Judging by what we saw of his reaction speeds, the NK would have made short work of Jon or any other human in a one-on-one swordfight

 

Actually all they had to do was throw a dragon glass tipped spear at the giant, or use a dragon glass tipped arrow and he dies.

Same with the NK, Arya's little demonstration of knife throwing could have been foreshadowing if she had done it to kill the NK. Throw the dagger at him from behind  and it's over.