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neutralbhad

The books are not going to end like this

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There's no way GRRM planned for Arya to kill the Others. The Winterfell and Mereen and Dorne and Young Griff plots change things up too much. It was clear that D&D didn't like half of the plots in Ice and Fire. Obviously they didn't really like the Others either, even though they were established as the true threat. The story has always been about lords being petty and fighting each other, all while a force of extinction that they don't believe in is coming. It's an analogy for climate change.

 

I also doubt Cersei will take the throne in the way that she did. In the books (especially in Fire and Blood) it was quite clear that the citizens of King's Landing had no qualms mobbing and murdering rulers. They would have dragged her out of King's Landing and tore her to pieces. But D&D just want to make the show a showdown between Dany and Cersei. They built up the White Walkers only to say "lol fuck that".

 

Don't get me wrong I am entertained by the show. But it's clear that at a certain point they strayed from GRRM's vision, I'd say this happens in season 5. D&D stopped caring for the source material.

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Posted (edited)

You're very right that in the books there are several plots (Dorne with Doran, Arianne and Sand Snakes, Young Griff, Victarion, Euron too, unCat, Jeyne Westerling) which are big unknowns and can (and probably will) shake up the things a lot. 

anyway, what I think that will happen in the books:

- Jon's resurrection but potentially at the cost of Ghost's life

- Jon is Lyanna's and Rhaegar's son

- the Hound is alive

- Hold the door, one way or another

- Sansa will cause LF's downfall (not sure if she'll kill him) but in a way it will make sense

- Tyrion helping Dany (iirc he hasn't met her yet in the books)

- at least one of the dragons die and is wighted

- the Wall crumbles down

- Winterfell is where the big battle takes place

- the bodies in the crypts will be wighted

- Euron joins Cersei

- Theon will die while defending a Stark

- Daenerys will sail to Westeros one day

 

what I think won't happen in the books:

- Ramsay won't kill Osha and Rickon

- Mel won't burn Shireen and Shireen will survive the story

- Mel will genuinly have an important role in the outcome of war against undead

- Varys won't join Dany. The same thing goes for the Tyrells.

- Tormund and Brienne, lol

- if Stannis dies he will not be executed by Brienne

 

uncertain / partly true:

- Cersei might become the queen somehow but she'll sink deep into madness

- Dany burning the khals

- Arya will leave the Faceless Men but only after they send her to kill one of her familly members or something like that

- Arya might kill the biggest baddest Other if there is any - I thought that it could be Jaime but I think that he'll kill Cersei so maybe it'll be Arya after all. Or it could be Jon.

- maybe Arya and Gendry will end up together but not like this

- Cersei will try to get a revenge against the high Sparrow and the Tyrells but I don't think it will this easy and I doubt all the Tyrells will be extinct, after all Margaery had at least one another brother who was in High Garden

 

no freaking idea:

- Stannis defeated by Boltons

- Bran

- Dany + Jon

 

(I might come up with more things later)

Edited by Nerevanin

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Posted (edited)

In the books there is no Night King, there is Night's King  but he is legendary figure or analogy to the story of some character, so it is doubtful that by killing one specific Other all of them would die.

In the books it will probably translate that Others will be beaten somehow, and later parts would focus on matters of men.

Edited by Eltharion21

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Posted (edited)
6 hours ago, neutralbhad said:

Don't get me wrong I am entertained by the show. But it's clear that at a certain point they strayed from GRRM's vision, I'd say this happens in season 5. D&D stopped caring for the source material.

I would say they stopped to care after the red wedding. That was their goal and after that it turned into fan fiction. This is clear by Houses and plots that appeared before, like the Blackfyre hint, the appearance of House Hightower banners and so on. A LOT of plots have been dropped. 

 

5 minutes ago, AryaNymeriaVisenya said:

Which means the Azor Ahai stuff doesn't matter much. If it was plot integral they would have been told and stuck with it

They dropped the plot in favor of the Night King. AA was never there to kill the Night King. They dropped the Blackfyre invasion and that is a major major plot point in my eyes. We have hints for that invasion since book 1.

All the show did was play itself. 

Edited by SirArthur

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7 hours ago, neutralbhad said:

The story has always been about lords being petty and fighting each other, all while a force of extinction that they don't believe in is coming. It's an analogy for climate change.

Yes, can be very well that way.

1 hour ago, Nerevanin said:

Mel won't burn Shireen and Shireen will survive the story

She will. This was one of the three "hat the fck" moments given by GRRM to DD.

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There are simply too many loose threads and hints in the books that I really doubt the books will look anything like this now. There is no way the entire threat from the North will be defeated by a knife in someones chest, its far too cheesy and easy. 

I had lost interest in the books, but seeing what a CGI blockbuster the show has turned into, it has really increased my anticipation of the books. I hope they get finished.

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After last nights episode I'd say that the show is literally nothing at all like the books. GRRM gave them three plot points yes. We know this. One was Hodor, two was Shireen, and three if I had to guess was Sansa executing LF. And other than those three points all we know is that they discussed a loose overarcing ending with GRRM yonks ago. At a guess they've completely gone their own way now. the only things I can see as being true is Jon & Dany being together, R+L=J (Obvs) Jon riding Rhaegal, and Arya & Gendry getting together. Nothing else which has happened in years seems remotely in keeping with the books.

I think I'm actually relieved.   

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While I agree the books won't do any/the majority of what we have seen. And I disagree with people saying, "well if it was important in the books it would be in the show." The truth is, we just won't know till Martin writes the books. I think TWOW will come out in the next few years. DOS I don't think ever happens by Martin and we never get a true ending. The best, I believe, we can hope for is the Martin estate or him on his deathbed, let's somebody else write the last book.

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2 hours ago, Nerevanin said:

Mel won't burn Shireen and Shireen will survive the story

This will almost certainly happen in the books, but it won't happen like it did in the show. Would make no sense for Stannis to give the command...

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I think that both Littlefinger and Varys will feature much more heavily in the endgame in the books. That was my lasting impression of the last book. Those two guys had way more to do with things than I had given them credit for.

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1 minute ago, Greenmonsterff said:

I think that both Littlefinger and Varys will feature much more heavily in the endgame in the books. That was my lasting impression of the last book. Those two guys had way more to do with things than I had given them credit for.

I agree. They are complicated characters and D&D made it apparent they didn't know how to write them without GRRM's help. I also don't know how they aren't the demise of each other.

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9 hours ago, neutralbhad said:

There's no way GRRM planned for Arya to kill the Others. The Winterfell and Mereen and Dorne and Young Griff plots change things up too much. It was clear that D&D didn't like half of the plots in Ice and Fire. Obviously they didn't really like the Others either, even though they were established as the true threat. The story has always been about lords being petty and fighting each other, all while a force of extinction that they don't believe in is coming. It's an analogy for climate change.

 

I also doubt Cersei will take the throne in the way that she did. In the books (especially in Fire and Blood) it was quite clear that the citizens of King's Landing had no qualms mobbing and murdering rulers. They would have dragged her out of King's Landing and tore her to pieces. But D&D just want to make the show a showdown between Dany and Cersei. They built up the White Walkers only to say "lol fuck that".

 

Don't get me wrong I am entertained by the show. But it's clear that at a certain point they strayed from GRRM's vision, I'd say this happens in season 5. D&D stopped caring for the source material.

Nice, where'd you get the last book ?!

 

Geez, we all know things won't go the way they went in the show, that's a given, but just because you did not like something does not mean it won't happen in some shape or form in the books.  For all we know, the show could end exactly like the book for the broad strokes, but if GRRM decides to change the ending because of the fans reaction no one will be the wiser and you will all claim GRRM had a better ending and D & D were hacks.

 

Which is a moot point considering we'll never get A Dream of Spring.

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I think in the Books Arya is going to do something really bad-ass and important, that may or may not have something  to do with the invasion of the Others but...

D&D probably have changed the story so much that it was impossible for her to have that great moment.... so instead they haphazardly gave her NightKingslayer role.

Maybe she will even kill someone who is or acts like the leader of the White Walkers attacking WF (But as we know there is no Night King in the book, except for the totally different character from the past).

This will be a glorious moment but it will not be the end of the invasion and the dragon rider (s) will still have to fulfill the prophecy, maybe by flying into the heart of winter and sacrificing someone (each other).

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Posted (edited)

I posted this on reddit yesterday (not getting much reaction :D) and it somehow fits here. The point is what GRRM plans for the wights. In my opinion, a zombie apocalypse doesn't leave much room for a long night and a bittersweet ending...

The NK and his army were made too powerful and too weak at the same time: there was no way out, and it will be difficult for GRRM to do any better. The previous "long night" is supposed to have lasted "for one generation", and this was what many of us were hoping for: a serious threat, but also a part of the circle of life, the pendulum swinging to the other side. Fire and ice, life and death. The NK not just a Bond villain/video game boss but a necessity.
But seeing just how powerful the show-WW were, this would not have been possible: they were too strong, had they won that battle, all Westeros would have been killed within weeks.
Maybe even GRRM did not think that part through: Zombies/wights mean strength in numbers, they quickly become ever more powerful - contrary to individual monsters, i.e. WW roaming the icy lands and killing the population over a long period of time.
So in the end they needed to become too weak all of a sudden, and to get killed by surprise in a ridiculous turn of events. Whether it's Arya, Jon, Sam, or that Mormont brat holding the dagger was not even important, it would all have been the same: The zombie problem had to be solved immediately and every immediate solution would have been equally unsatisfactory and unbelievable. Yet a long night and thus a more meaningful, intelligent and bittersweet conclusion to the series was made impossible by the sheer strength of the NK and his army.

...And yet, thinking about it, it is still possible to imagine better endings, even without a long night.
It would have been great had Arya not showed up, had almost everyone died, and only Dany and Jon flown away with some of their best friends (Sam, Tyrion, Arya, Misandei, Bran - maybe the hound for Cleganebowl's sake.) Then doing more research and finding a magical solution. Or realizing that a sacrifice of Bran is actually the best solution, a solution which could have spared everybody elses's life in the first place... Give Bran to the NK and trust the Citadel with keeping the records of humanity. Problem solved, immediately but bittersweet.

 

Edited by Umber Jack

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1 hour ago, The Weirwoods Eyes said:

After last nights episode I'd say that the show is literally nothing at all like the books. GRRM gave them three plot points yes. We know this. One was Hodor, two was Shireen, and three if I had to guess was Sansa executing LF. And other than those three points all we know is that they discussed a loose overarcing ending with GRRM yonks ago. At a guess they've completely gone their own way now. the only things I can see as being true is Jon & Dany being together, R+L=J (Obvs) Jon riding Rhaegal, and Arya & Gendry getting together. Nothing else which has happened in years seems remotely in keeping with the books.

I think I'm actually relieved.   

This is not correct. He gave them more than three plot points. Hodor, Shireen and one other were merely three different things that GRRM told D&D that made them say WTF. And the third one happens at the end of the series, so it would not be Littlefinger.

George told them how the major characters stories' end as well as the overall ending. He did not tell them how some minor characters end up as he said he didn't know that himself. But they discussed a lot. Now whether D&D follow that to a T is open for discussion, but George did say so himself that the stories will end up mostly the same.

So while how they end up getting there may be different, where the main characters end up will likely be the same results in the books.

But it's completely moot anyway as we're not getting an ending to the books ever.

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