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The books are not going to end like this

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2 hours ago, House Cambodia said:

Right, but there's so much more. What's the connection between our Bran and Bran the Builder? His 'magic' sealed the Wall from the Others, and it seems only our Bran can facilitate the Others access through/over the Wall. And how about that network of tunnels that seem to be both north and south of the Wall? I suspect the Winterfell crypts are also connected. I think there's a whole population of Children yet to be discovered, and that's in addition to the Crannogmen (Reeds) and what in the God's Eye.

I don't really think we'll get all our questions answered, or the books are going to be 4000 pages each.

Perhaps he'll publish some Appendices after A Dream of Spring. Buy an add-on to your book, turn ADoS from 1500 pages to 6500 pages.

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On 4/30/2019 at 2:41 AM, Coffeewiththegods said:

Yea D&D specifically said THEY came up with Arya killing the NK 3 years ago because Jon being the hero was predictable 

Actually, on the Inside the episode they say "for about three years now, we've known it was going to be Arya..."  at 9:00:

Inside the Episode S8E3

They never say they came up with it. If you have video of them saying it was their idea, please link it.

George is still involved in the show and is a co-executive producer.

I don't understand how people think he hasn't told them how it all goes down, and that he'd have nothing to do with it, while D&D&B just make it all up. 

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1 minute ago, ShadowKitteh said:

Actually, on the Inside the episode they say "for about three years now, we've known it was going to be Arya..."  at 9:00:

Inside the Episode S8E3

They never say they came up with it. If you have video of them saying it was their idea, please link it.

George is still involved in the show and is a co-executive producer.

I don't understand how people think he hasn't told them how it all goes down, and that he'd have nothing to do with it, while D&D&B just make it all up. 

If this was from GRRM, they would have known it since their meeting in Santa Fe which was either late 2013 or 2014, longer than 3 years ago.

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13 hours ago, House Cambodia said:

GRRM's interview implies that secondary characters would get their proper treatment in the books, but as they are cut out/reduced in the show, we know when we get our hands on the books that they won't be vital in the end, which spoils the anticipation considerably. Hence, we already know Young Griff will turn out to be fAegon.

The conspiracy theory I don't buy, but it would be more credible to guess that he's finished TWOW but agreed not to publish it until the show's done. I wouldn't be surprised to see TWOW come out in October/beginning of winter and ADOS out in February/beginning of spring.

We don't know that Young Griff will turn out to be fAegon. Young Griff could be exactly what he says he is and still not be the true heir to the throne. Not only is there Jon Snow to think about there is also the lingering rumor that the Mad King was said to have disinherited Rhaegar in favor of making Viserys his heir. If that is true, then Daenerys is the true heir. 

As for secondary characters? You do realize that everyone who isn't Tyrion, Daenerys, Jon and the three Stark kids are secondary characters; Sansa, in particular, is up for debate because she originally was a secondary character.

So that means everyone from Cersei Lannister to the Tattered Prince are secondary characters.

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20 minutes ago, Cas Stark said:

If this was from GRRM, they would have known it since their meeting in Santa Fe which was either late 2013 or 2014, longer than 3 years ago.

2013

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Posted (edited)
33 minutes ago, ShadowKitteh said:

Actually, on the Inside the episode they say "for about three years now, we've known it was going to be Arya..."  at 9:00:

Inside the Episode S8E3

They never say they came up with it. If you have video of them saying it was their idea, please link it.

George is still involved in the show and is a co-executive producer.

I don't understand how people think he hasn't told them how it all goes down, and that he'd have nothing to do with it, while D&D&B just make it all up. 

Their sitdown with GRRM was in 2013. They learned all about the planned story for the last remaining books.

Edited by longest night

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3 hours ago, longest night said:

Their sitdown with GRRM was in 2013. They learned all about the planned story for the last remaining books.

Are you literally saying that was D&D's last communication with GRRM ever? Seriously? 

If so, you'd know that how?

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Posted (edited)
27 minutes ago, ShadowKitteh said:

Are you literally saying that was D&D's last communication with GRRM ever? Seriously? 

If so, you'd know that how?

You think GRRM was holding back on them? We had the first so called "oh shit moment" in season 5 with the burning of Shireen.

 

Edited by longest night

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1 hour ago, ShadowKitteh said:

Are you literally saying that was D&D's last communication with GRRM ever? Seriously? 

If so, you'd know that how?

We know he told them the end in 2013, which was 6 years ago.  So, the evidence strongly suggests that 3 years ago, as they said, is when they decided to have Arya kill the NK, and this is nothing they got from GRRM or anything to do with what she does in the rest of his story.  

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16 minutes ago, longest night said:

You think GRRM was holding back on them? We had the first so called "oh shit moment" in season 5 with the burning of Shireen.

 

Just the opposite. I think GRRM & D&D&B have been in constant communication, that was my point. 

George's version (on the page) is unfilmable.

Example: The House of the Undying works on the page because Dany doesn't recognize anyone, so the reader doesn't. Then when you get to Book3 and The Red Wedding, you think HFS! And run get Book2 and go reread that chapter... George's POV storytelling with every character's biases included, is literally why the books work so well in unfolding this magic garden of mysteries, because the entire thing is based on Unreliable Narrator. In a visual storytelling medium, you lose that completely.

You also lose the element of character knowledge or lack thereof. In a visual medium, the HOTU is a giant bazillion gallon tanker of spoilers. We, the viewer would recognize the actors. It's the main reason that entire sequence had to be rewritten. It's also because there isn't a budget for it either.... like Blackwater & the underwater chain.

I love the books. But for me, the first three are so much better than the last two. While I'm beyond grateful George fell in love with the world he created, because it gives HBO decades of possibilities of content (which I really hope they take advantage of because I love the show as well...), much of it consists of red herrings, so I'm thankful the show gave Joreh greyscale, and didn't leave Sansa dying of boredom in the Eyrie. 

They're different mediums, and the story must be adjusted accordingly. 

There are two things this season that have bothered me. The first is a stupid nitpick on my part, but I can't help it. Dany's line to Jon in the crypts: "If it were true, it would make you the last male heir...." bothers me because his sex doesn't matter. He's still in line before her, even he were female.

The other was the Winterfell crypts. If a wight can't bust out of a wooden crate, how can they bust through stone? Also, (and this is a book thing.... not really established in the show, so another nitpick on my part...) we know that the Silent Sisters don't mummify. They wash the bones, so there's no connective tissue, and I doubt they'd be buried in their clothing. 

Shireen bothered me because it was Shireen, not because I can't see George doing it. I can.

(And I also think in the books Stannis is going to freeze to death where we left them in Dance, because he's so myopic.) So perhaps the show gives Stannis more..... closure? Hopefully, we'll eventually find out.

 

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8 minutes ago, Cas Stark said:

We know he told them the end in 2013, which was 6 years ago.  So, the evidence strongly suggests that 3 years ago, as they said, is when they decided to have Arya kill the NK, and this is nothing they got from GRRM or anything to do with what she does in the rest of his story.  

The Battle of Winterfell, and Arya killing the NK, isn't "the end." 

We're only half way through S8.

My guess, "the end" refers to after Cersei dies, and what happens to Jon & Dany. I see Dany going the way of Lyanna Stark and dying in childbirth, leaving Jon a single father. That would fit the "bittersweet ending" George has spoken of. That's my guess anyway.

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11 minutes ago, Cas Stark said:

We know he told them the end in 2013, which was 6 years ago.  So, the evidence strongly suggests that 3 years ago, as they said, is when they decided to have Arya kill the NK, and this is nothing they got from GRRM or anything to do with what she does in the rest of his story.  

And seriously, stop saying, "they decided." You don't know that. Unless you've been in the Writers Room, GRRM has told you personally, or there's video proof of what you claim, you're doing a disservice to George and everyone else.

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Guys, George doesn't even read the scripts anymore. He is done with the show. And just because he told them something doesn't even in the slightest mean they care about what he told them or want to go with that. They are running the show, not he. He sold the rights.

As for him being a 'co-executive producer' - that's just an empty title. Everybody can be an executive producer on a show without having any influence on the decision-making process whatsoever.

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just found this pearl

Quote

Martin added: “I mean, I think … the major points of the ending will be things that I told them, you know, five or six years ago. But there may also be changes, and there’ll be a lot added.”

So we changed from the ending being the same to he "hopes" it will be the same!?

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59 minutes ago, ShadowKitteh said:

And seriously, stop saying, "they decided." You don't know that. Unless you've been in the Writers Room, GRRM has told you personally, or there's video proof of what you claim, you're doing a disservice to George and everyone else.

We have the quotes from the showrunners and the quotes from GRRM and the timetable.  That's all that is needed, in my opinion.  It is clear to me, based on said quotes that the showrunners came up with the idea of Arya killing the NK, they flat out said that Jon doing it was too predictable.  But, believe whatever you want or nothing or wait for the book end that will not be coming, again, in my opinion.

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7 hours ago, ShadowKitteh said:

Actually, on the Inside the episode they say "for about three years now, we've known it was going to be Arya..."  at 9:00:

Inside the Episode S8E3

They never say they came up with it. If you have video of them saying it was their idea, please link it.

George is still involved in the show and is a co-executive producer.

I don't understand how people think he hasn't told them how it all goes down, and that he'd have nothing to do with it, while D&D&B just make it all up. 

They literally say “WE chose Arya because WE weren’t thinking of her in that moment” then they go on to say something about Jon always saving the day.

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I feel like we can just forget the books with all the prophecies and lore because apparently it was just meant as a distraction and a way to mislead us.  YES....I am upset and disappointed but sometimes you have to face up to the reality that you have been suckered and accept it. 

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7 hours ago, ShadowKitteh said:

Actually, on the Inside the episode they say "for about three years now, we've known it was going to be Arya..."  at 9:00:

Inside the Episode S8E3

They never say they came up with it. If you have video of them saying it was their idea, please link it.

George is still involved in the show and is a co-executive producer.

I don't understand how people think he hasn't told them how it all goes down, and that he'd have nothing to do with it, while D&D&B just make it all up. 

"She seemed like the best candidate provided we weren't thinking of her in that moment." ... "We Hoped to avoid the expected. Jon Snow has always been the hero, the one who's been the savior, but to US it didn't seem right" - D&D

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9 minutes ago, Coffeewiththegods said:

They literally say “WE chose Arya because WE weren’t thinking of her in that moment” then they go on to say something about Jon always saving the day.

But they literally never say, “we chose”, I’ve gone back just now and rewatched it several times, (because I’m so blonde i could l glow in th dark, so the chance of me missing it are high.) The rest of it is in the context of setting up the rest of the sequence & episode.

 

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3 minutes ago, ShadowKitteh said:

But they literally never say, “we chose”, I’ve gone back just now and rewatched it several times, (because I’m so blonde i could l glow in th dark, so the chance of me missing it are high.) The rest of it is in the context of setting up the rest of the sequence & episode.

 

"She seemed like the best candidate provided we weren't thinking of her in that moment.” ... "We Hoped to avoid the expected. Jon Snow has always been the hero, the one who's been the savior, but to US it didn't seem right" - D&D

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