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neutralbhad

The books are not going to end like this

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i hear the big picture theme all the time, but i just don't think it's all that important. what is the big picture, anyway? I mean, they couldn't let the NK win, and that's the only way to enforce this idea of Cersei paying for her cynicism.

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32 minutes ago, Urien the Ragged said:

i hear the big picture theme all the time, but i just don't think it's all that important. what is the big picture, anyway? I mean, they couldn't let the NK win, and that's the only way to enforce this idea of Cersei paying for her cynicism.

They should have taken out Cersei first.  That's the answer, but the showrunners are in love with Lena, and so, she miraculously sits the IT and has a fresh army.  She will undoubtedly engineer the deaths of at least a few fan favorites, whose deaths will be meaningless, killed by a drunk and thuggish queen, to no purpose.  If I hadn't been invested in the books and show all these years I wouldn't bother continuing to watch or follow the show, but since there is only 3 more eps I will stick to the end.

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Posted (edited)
11 minutes ago, Cedius_3 said:

This is wrong on several levels. Don't confuse "too long for TV" for non-book importance.

How do you even know? Ever thought that its the actions caused by the prophecy existing that matter and not the prophecy itself? See Stannis' whole arc. Lodos said the drowned God would defeat Aegon the Conqueror, never happened. Last season the show even called this out 

Quote

 

Dany: I can't have children.

Jon: Who told you that?

Dany: The witch who murdered my husband.

Jon:  Has it occurred to you she might not have been a reliable source of information?

 

Cersei is bringing about her own demise because of a prophecy she heard as a child.

They didn't need the whole prophecy for Jon to save the day
 

Edited by AryaNymeriaVisenya

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8 hours ago, Nerevanin said:

anyway, what I think that will happen in the books:

what I think won't happen in the books:

I would add that the battle of the bastards will probably also happen in the books.

And Arya will definitely not be killing all the Freys in the books.  That should be the BWB and Lady Stoneheart, maybe with help from Brienne and Jamie.

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I am quite certain that those waiting for a literal implementation of these prophecies will be as disappointed in the books as they are with the series.

You will have to think about it for a bit and then see how Martin made the Prophecy real.

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Arya ending the Long Night. I don't see that happening. Except this is the "Holy Shit" Moment Benioff and Weiss told us is going to happen...

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Just now, Larger than Average Finger said:

I am quite certain that those waiting for a literal implementation of these prophecies will be as disappointed in the books as they are with the series.

You will have to think about it for a bit and then see how Martin made the Prophecy real.

No one expects a 'literal' interpretation. We already know that prophecy is dangerous and often, if not almost always, misinterpreted.  That's fine, that is what I expect.  What I don't expect is to have 7 years of prophecy completely obliterated in a single stroke of Arya's knife.  And in addition to obliterating prophecy they also obliterated any real meaning or even need for anyone to know Jon Snow's parents.  As a half Stark military leader and King in the North,  he's as positioned to take the IT as any other elites in Westeros.

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Posted (edited)
15 hours ago, neutralbhad said:

There's no way GRRM planned for Arya to kill the Others. The Winterfell and Mereen and Dorne and Young Griff plots change things up too much. It was clear that D&D didn't like half of the plots in Ice and Fire. Obviously they didn't really like the Others either, even though they were established as the true threat. The story has always been about lords being petty and fighting each other, all while a force of extinction that they don't believe in is coming. It's an analogy for climate change.

Here's my quibble with that. GRRM started these books long before climate change was a thing. The first outlines for the books were completed in 1993. If anything, it would be a metaphor for nuclear winter. Martin is a child of the Cold War, where nuclear annihilation and nuclear winter were a very real threat. 

The people of Westeros pray for a summer that never ends and where winter and ice and snow are a thing of the past. That's the very opposite of what the climate change crowd is all about. 

We do see environmental degradation as a theme and it's a prominent one. We see the destruction of species like direwolves, ice bears, the weirwoods, and people deemed "primitive" like the Children being pushed out of their homes as mankind takes over the land and destroys it. 

Edited by Ice Queen

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1 minute ago, T and A said:

Arya ending the Long Night. I don't see that happening. Except this is the "Holy Shit" Moment Benioff and Weiss told us is going to happen...

Isn't the end of the Long Night supposed to bring the end of winter and usher in a thousand year summer?

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5 minutes ago, Cas Stark said:

No one expects a 'literal' interpretation. We already know that prophecy is dangerous and often, if not almost always, misinterpreted.  That's fine, that is what I expect.  What I don't expect is to have 7 years of prophecy completely obliterated in a single stroke of Arya's knife.  And in addition to obliterating prophecy they also obliterated any real meaning or even need for anyone to know Jon Snow's parents.  As a half Stark military leader and King in the North,  he's as positioned to take the IT as any other elites in Westeros.

The real meaning Jon Snow's parents?You mean, the real meaning that fans came up with? It is allways the same, with every series. Fans are allways pissed, when their fanmade theories are crushed...

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Posted (edited)
7 minutes ago, T and A said:

The real meaning Jon Snow's parents?You mean, the real meaning that fans came up with? It is allways the same, with every series. Fans are allways pissed, when their fanmade theories are crushed...

It's a piece of literature.  Presumably, the multi-book mystery of Jon Snow's parents was going to have a pay off, either a plot pay off or a character pay off, otherwise why is it in the story?  If he's just, oh, okay, and it has no meaning, why even do it?  If the prophecies are all meaningless drivel, why are they in story and woven into the story and mythology again and again?

Edited by Cas Stark

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3 hours ago, Sonoftheharpie said:

He's too busy doing 'other projects' to ever finish the series. At the rate he's going he will be about 86 when he finishes the series and I doubt he lives that long (hope I'm wrong of course in all of this!)

I for one will refuse to read anything else he writes or watch any other show in which he is involved until the final books are published.  If his entire fan base would do the same then maybe he would find the motivation to finish what he started.  If nothing else, he should publish a synopsis of the remaining plot so that our main questions are answered.

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7 minutes ago, Cas Stark said:

It's a piece of literature.  Presumably, the multi-book mystery of Jon Snow's parents was going to have a pay off, either a plot pay off or a character pay off, otherwise why is it in the story?  If he's just, oh, okay, and it has no meaning, why even do it?  If the prophecies are all meaningless drivel, why are they in story and woven into the story and mythology again and again?

Can you specifically point out where in the prophecies it is stated that Rhaegars son will kill the NK?

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11 minutes ago, Cas Stark said:

It's a piece of literature.  Presumably, the multi-book mystery of Jon Snow's parents was going to have a pay off, either a plot pay off or a character pay off, otherwise why is it in the story?  If he's just, oh, okay, and it has no meaning, why even do it?  If the prophecies are all meaningless drivel, why are they in story and woven into the story and mythology again and again?

This x 1000

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Posted (edited)
4 minutes ago, T and A said:

Can you specifically point out where in the prophecies it is stated that Rhaegars son will kill the NK?

Can you specifically point out where there's proof in the books the Night King even exist?

Edited by the Greenleif Stark

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Just now, T and A said:

Can you specifically point out where in the prophecies it is stated that Rhaegars son will kill the NK?

LMAO.  Do you think Arya Stark is the prince that was promised? Do you think the show is going to connect that dot or drop the whole prophecy angle and move on to King's Landing?  

But, I think you are missing my point on purpose since I didn't say word one about Rhaegar's son killing the NK.

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8 minutes ago, Cas Stark said:

LMAO.  Do you think Arya Stark is the prince that was promised? Do you think the show is going to connect that dot or drop the whole prophecy angle and move on to King's Landing?  

But, I think you are missing my point on purpose since I didn't say word one about Rhaegar's son killing the NK.

No, I don't. I just don't know, how the show stated that Jon isn't the PtwP. What have you expected of Jon to fullfill that prophecy? He is responsible that Daenerys came to Winterfell. He and Daenerys led the War against the WW. What do you expect from a chosen one? That he makes the last blow?

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41 minutes ago, T and A said:

Arya ending the Long Night. I don't see that happening. Except this is the "Holy Shit" Moment Benioff and Weiss told us is going to happen...

But they themselves effectively confirmed that this didn't come from George. They said they knew it for about three years that this would happen. But their conference with George was 5-6 years ago.

This is certainly a WTF moment but it has nothing to do with George. I mean, the very idea that 12-13-year-old child can kill more than 1-2 Others/wights is ridiculous. She will never have the reach nor the strength to pull any of that of.

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