Dany is army-less, isn't she?

[palemarerider]

A couple of Wild Card Armies:

Skagos/Reed Army from the North

Blackfish Rallying the Riverlands (remember he escaped in a Dingy)

Dorne sending in an Army

Second Sons sailing to help Danny

[MinscS2]

3 minutes ago, House Cambodia said:

Eh, really? Not Sansa??

This episode gave them more of a reason to rally behind Daenerys (who fought for them) and less of a reason to rally behind Sansa (who hid in a crypt.)

Not saying that they necessarily will rally behind Daenerys, but there's certainly not more of an incentive for them to rally behind Sansa after this episode.

And we do see the northmen cheering for her in the preview for episode 4. Clearly something changed, looks like she finally earned the respect Davos was talking about.

[Larger than Average Finger]

1 hour ago, MinscS2 said:

Once rumors spread that the northern army defeated ~400.000 wights (even if they took heavy losses), they would be fools to keep supporting Cersei and her decimated army of Lannisters.
They are bettors after all, just as much as bankers.

Or the GC simply switches sides on their own, there are several hints scattered about that it wouldn't come completely out of the blue. 

 

I am completely convinced that most of the south will never believe that this battle even happened. Just another myth from the north about boogie men in the winter.

[House Cambodia]

2 minutes ago, Larger than Average Finger said:

I am completely convinced that most of the south will never believe that this battle even happened. Just another myth from the north about boogie men in the winter.

Should be safe to fill a few carts with wight bodies and display them down south now.

[Saturno]

Look Dany!! Over there!!

OMG! It's Lord Otton! Otton Nowere! And he is followed by the Konvenient Knights!!!! We are saved!!

 

 

 

 

Is that Captain Marvel????

 

 

 

[Lord Davos Seaworth]

Yes, I think it is undeniable they are setting up Dany to tragically wind up all alone with Drogon and that's it.

She basically lost her entire army, and let's be real - the way they just slaughtered the Dothraki seemed way too convenient for it to simply be for the sake of a cool, suspenseful intro.

Tensions with Sansa (and thus the rest of the North and Vale) remain high.

Varys has been heavily foreshadowed to betray her, and we all know it's in his character/would make sense for his last stand.

The Missandei/Grey Worm scene about going back to Essos seemed way to forced to not have any significance, along with all the xenophobia directed toward them. I think more has to develop here still, but Grey Worm losing nearly all his comrades could end up being the final trigger.

Jorah, the only man left in Westeros who would stand by her side no matter what happens is dead.

That leaves Jon and Tyrion, and both also have developing reasons to leave Dany.

Last episode the entire dialogue in the crypts between Tyrion and Sansa seemed to serve to draw Tyrion closer toward Sansa and further from Dany. With Jorah gone, Dany will likely go back to her bitchy ways toward the two of them, and I could see that acting as a catalyst for the two to grow even more resentful towards her together.

Lastly, Jon's true parentage is clear recipe for disaster between the two of them. Its seems like Jon would have no issue giving up his "right" to the throne, but as soon as the others find out, they won't let. Basically, I think once Sansa and friends find out the truth, it will be the last straw pushing Dany away from everyone else, ending up as the Lone Wolf, while the Starks keep their Three Heads together (Jon, Sansa, and Arya. Ironic, right?).

 

 

[unJon]

I had a thought that Sansa kept both Glover and Royce out of this fight so she has an army to use against Cersei (and also leverage against Dany for Northern independence). 

[King Perkis]

13 minutes ago, Lord Davos Seaworth said:

Varys has been heavily foreshadowed to betray her, and we all know it's in his character/would make sense for his last stand

Betray her to who?  I know this was foreshadowed but realistically how does this play out?  Cersei/Euron Varys is opposed to.  What is gained by siding with Dany or Jon that realistically hurts Dany?

[MinscS2]

2 minutes ago, unJon said:

I had a thought that Sansa kept both Glover and Royce out of this fight so she has an army to use against Cersei (and also leverage against Dany for Northern independence). 

While I like this theory, we did see Vale-troops defending Winterfell this season.

It also seems like a quite evil thing to do - purposefully sending away or hold back troops that are needed for the survival of the people she cares about.
Sansa would never do that... oh wait... 

[Dragons 7th Eye]

40 minutes ago, palemarerider said:

A couple of Wild Card Armies:

Skagos/Reed Army from the North

Blackfish Rallying the Riverlands (remember he escaped in a Dingy)

Dorne sending in an Army

Second Sons sailing to help Danny

Skagos - how many hundred men?

Blackfish refused to come with Brienne to help and went to die.

Dorne - Plausible. With all the teleporting around, not even that bad. But who would lead them to ally with Dany as the leadership in alliance with her were killed.

Second Sons - very cheesy so plausible.

I think based on guts alone that they will simply say how fortunate they are, that 6000 unsullied and 30000 dothraki survived and go from there

[King Perkis]

8 minutes ago, unJon said:

I had a thought that Sansa kept both Glover and Royce out of this fight so she has an army to use against Cersei (and also leverage against Dany for Northern independence). 

 

4 minutes ago, MinscS2 said:

While I like this theory, we did see Vale-troops defending Winterfell this season.

It also seems like a quite evil thing to do - purposefully sending away or hold back troops that are needed for the survival of the people she cares about.
Sansa would never do that... oh wait... 

Also, if she had done this wouldn't she have snuck out during the battle instead of heading to the Crypts?  If plan was to keep for herself, she clearly acted like the battle was lost when she went down there.

[AryaNymeriaVisenya]

1 hour ago, King Perkis said:

This should have happened during the Long Night.  In terms of the books, I get they were throughout the Riverlands and some of the North, but makes more sense to have them act here.  I'll find it a bit hard to believe if they show up for the KL fight. 

I'm starting to think they aren't appearing again and they appeared to signpost that Arya will be leaving Winterfell to form a pack of her own.

Sansa needs her moment. It seems like it will come at the expense of Dany. Sansa wants to fulfil Robb's final campaign for an independent North and for the character to go out on a triumphant note showing all she has learned it has to be achieved.

[King Perkis]

8 minutes ago, AryaNymeriaVisenya said:

I'm starting to think they aren't appearing again and they appeared to signpost that Arya will be leaving Winterfell to form a pack of her own.

Sansa needs her moment. It seems like it will come at the expense of Dany. Sansa wants to fulfil Robb's final campaign for an independent North and for the character to go out on a triumphant note showing all she has learned it has to be achieved.

Probably not, which I assume means Arya won't die?

 

I don't understand why Dany doesn't just allow the North to branch off.  She helped them win.  In return they help her win and they both let each other be.  Jon (North) marries Dany and the keeps a good relationship and Sansa or whoever rules in the North.  I literally do not see the downside in ceding the North to its own devices.  The only rebellion we have seen in recent history is due to KL murdering the North's own (i get the Westeros history book tells a slightly different story in terms of the wars/raiding but largely shows no real basis for North to invade further South). 

[AryaNymeriaVisenya]

10 minutes ago, King Perkis said:

Probably not, which I assume means Arya won't die?

 

I don't understand why Dany doesn't just allow the North to branch off.  She helped them win.  In return they help her win and they both let each other be.  Jon (North) marries Dany and the keeps a good relationship and Sansa or whoever rules in the North.  I literally do not see the downside in ceding the North to its own devices.  The only rebellion we have seen in recent history is due to KL murdering the North's own (i get the Westeros history book tells a slightly different story in terms of the wars/raiding but largely shows no real basis for North to invade further South). 

Pride it seems. She's fine letting the Iron Islands go but the North is half the landmass of Westeros. And if there is no more wall needed people can populate further up North now. Beyond the Wall may come under the new Northern Kingdom. 

As for Arya dying. What is the threat to her now? The mountain? I feel like that is Sandor's fight. Unless the faceless men turn up and decide her time is over then I can't see it. Things are going suspiciously well for her.

[Forlong the Fat]

Based on the episode, I think all we can safely say is she lost "a lot" of her army. Was it 3/4 or 1/2? I don't know how you could possibly say based on what we saw.

[Forlong the Fat]

11 minutes ago, King Perkis said:

Probably not, which I assume means Arya won't die?

 

I don't understand why Dany doesn't just allow the North to branch off.  She helped them win.  In return they help her win and they both let each other be.  Jon (North) marries Dany and the keeps a good relationship and Sansa or whoever rules in the North.  I literally do not see the downside in ceding the North to its own devices.  The only rebellion we have seen in recent history is due to KL murdering the North's own (i get the Westeros history book tells a slightly different story in terms of the wars/raiding but largely shows no real basis for North to invade further South). 

One reason not to do that is that the legal basis to her claim includes the North. If she agrees to let the North "branch off," everyone else has an incentive to argue and fight to branch off as well.

[King Perkis]

9 minutes ago, AryaNymeriaVisenya said:

Pride it seems. She's fine letting the Iron Islands go but the North is half the landmass of Westeros. And if there is no more wall needed people can populate further up North now. Beyond the Wall may come under the new Northern Kingdom. 

As for Arya dying. What is the threat to her now? The mountain? I feel like that is Sandor's fight. Unless the faceless men turn up and decide her time is over then I can't see it. Things are going suspiciously well for her.

Iron Islands she let go since they would help her, Yara would be ruler (so another lady queen), and they rebel all the time but would stop that and raping and raiding in return for freedom.

Sansa set the stage for the exact same agreement with her Episode 2 convo and it being a constant thing since Season 1 (King in the North).  So, realistically, I can see it happening since Sansa would be ruler and that fits in with the new world order (ie women rule)

For Arya, I just meant if no fear of Nymeria dying then she will survive.  Obvious exception to the Direwolf/Stark survival rule was Sansa but she seems fine.

9 minutes ago, Forlong the Fat said:

One reason not to do that is that the legal basis to her claim includes the North. If she agrees to let the North "branch off," everyone else has an incentive to argue and fight to branch off as well.

I get your point but in terms of the show, who is everyone else lol?  Plenty of prior discussion on forum that once a House/Region is forgotten it tends to stay that way.  Same is true so far this season.  Dorne has not been mentioned.  Riverlands have not been mentioned and more than likely we teleport right over that to KL.  The Reach has not been mentioned outside of Tarley deaths.  There is that one region that was never mentioned again after the first season, believe it was called Stormlands but that may just be an old tale. 

 

That leaves Westerlands (Cersie controls unless some Unsullied still hanging out in Casterly Rock) and is assumed will come under control whoever wins.  Eyrie which is in Sansa's pocket.  We'll have a better idea next episode where the North stands in terms of loyalty. And KL goes to the victor.  The remaining the areas mentioned above will be ruled in name (ie King/Queen of whatever) but no discussion on what happens in the finale in my opinion.

[Forlong the Fat]

21 minutes ago, King Perkis said:

Iron Islands she let go since they would help her, Yara would be ruler (so another lady queen), and they rebel all the time but would stop that and raping and raiding in return for freedom.

Sansa set the stage for the exact same agreement with her Episode 2 convo and it being a constant thing since Season 1 (King in the North).  So, realistically, I can see it happening since Sansa would be ruler and that fits in with the new world order (ie women rule)

For Arya, I just meant if no fear of Nymeria dying then she will survive.  Obvious exception to the Direwolf/Stark survival rule was Sansa but she seems fine.

I get your point but in terms of the show, who is everyone else lol?  Plenty of prior discussion on forum that once a House/Region is forgotten it tends to stay that way.  Same is true so far this season.  Dorne has not been mentioned.  Riverlands have not been mentioned and more than likely we teleport right over that to KL.  The Reach has not been mentioned outside of Tarley deaths.  There is that one region that was never mentioned again after the first season, believe it was called Stormlands but that may just be an old tale. 

 

That leaves Westerlands (Cersie controls unless some Unsullied still hanging out in Casterly Rock) and is assumed will come under control whoever wins.  Eyrie which is in Sansa's pocket.  We'll have a better idea next episode where the North stands in terms of loyalty. And KL goes to the victor.  The remaining the areas mentioned above will be ruled in name (ie King/Queen of whatever) but no discussion on what happens in the finale in my opinion.

Even if we're just dealing with the Vale, which is still active and fought in both recent battles on behalf on the Norths, there are already complications . If the North is allowed to branch off, is the Vale part of it? Or their own kingdom? Likewise for the Riverlands, which has been featured extensively, which have generally been allied with the Arryns and the North. What happens to them?

[the tower of albion]

I would assume the Vale infantries are still intact ( a marriage pact between Robin Arryn and Sansa) ready to join up and the bulk of the Riverlands forces technically loyal to the crown will gladly turn their banners for the wolves of winter. I wouldn't be surprised if there aren't other deffections.

[King Perkis]

27 minutes ago, Forlong the Fat said:

Even if we're just dealing with the Vale, which is still active and fought in both recent battles on behalf on the Norths, there are already complications . If the North is allowed to branch off, is the Vale part of it? Or their own kingdom? Likewise for the Riverlands, which has been featured extensively, which have generally been allied with the Arryns and the North. What happens to them?

I don't believe the Riverlands are a factor.  If Edmure was to make another appearance it would have been after Arya murdered the Freys.  So, at this point I don't view the Riverlands as actually coming into play 

In terms of the Vale, I am not sure what the end game would be.  Just because they were aligned doesn't mean they are against staying under the rule of KL.  I get they are allies and Royce generally follows Sansa around by her coattails but everything has centered on a King in the North or "what about the North."  Sansa hasn't mentioned taking in either kingdom with her.  Nor was that subject broached during the Wof5K *at least I don't remember that convo if it did occur).  

Also, to be fair, the North has suffered more in the past couple seasons then say the Vale.  They've also sacrificed more for their freedom than the Vale appears to have.  So, I wouldn't necessarily put them on the same footing just because Vale appeared at BoB and was in the Long Night fight.