Dany's contribution to the Great War

[Bear42]

The more I think about the last two seasons the more convinced I am that Dany contributed nothing to the struggle against the AOTD.  There was all this talk about her bringing the greatest army the world has ever seen but it didn't make a difference.  The Dothraki lasted less than one minute. The Unsullied were about the only useful forces in the whole fight but even they were wiped out about halfway into the battle, and then they were risen by the NK and added to the ranks of the undead.  That's a wash at best.  Her dragons spent the whole battle dealing with the undead dragon she donated to the NK's cause, and even failed at that as we see later both Drogon and Rhaegal had checked out while Viserion was taking down the walls of Winterfell).  That's a net negative in my book.  With Arya killing the NK by using Bran as bait I fail to see how any of the forces that crossed the narrow sea were necessary or even helpful in the effort.  I guess they helped mine the dragonglass but that's all I can come up with.

 

I always thought Dany's story would be about her thinking her destiny is to rule the seven kingdoms, when in fact her destiny was to save them.  Now I think she should've just stayed in Essos.  Am I missing something or has Dany's story fallen victim to the Indiana Jones Paradox?

[Euron III Greyjoy]

It was thanks to Daenerys' army that the living didn't get destroyed straight away. I'll grant you that the Dothraki might as well not have been there, but the Unsullied allowed everyone to fall back.

I'm fine with Jon or Daenerys not being the big hero of the Long NIght. Jon brought everyone together, and Daenerys provided them with a massive army. What I don't like is that Jon or Bran really didn't do anything in the grand scheme of things. I thought even if he didn't kill the Night King Jon would at the very least battle against him, or kill a few White Walkers, but there wasn't even a White Walker battle. I expected Bran would at least have something up his sleeve. So far in the show all he's done is tell Sam about Jon being the son of Rhaegar and Lyanna. 

[Wik]

Her army was needed but yes, her plot is waning. I have thought she would die for a long time but now I think they will do something lame like she is pregnant.....I really am hate watching hardcore at this point. 

[anjulibai]

No one would have survived without the Unsullied. They held the dead back and protected the retreat. 

The dragons also were helpful in killing a large number of wights. In that respect, Dany personally did what I expected her to do, which is what she's done previously.

Jon, though, I also expected him to do more. At least fight against the NK or some WWs (who did NOTHING for some reason). 

[Kajjo]

8 minutes ago, anjulibai said:

No one would have survived without the Unsullied. They held the dead back and protected the retreat. 

Agreed. The Unsullied bought them a lot of time and were crucial for their overall success.

9 minutes ago, anjulibai said:

The dragons also were helpful in killing a large number of wights.

Yes, very many were killed. At some point I thought she could have done more, but anyway.

Also the dragons killed the ice dragon which was decisive for defeating the Nightking.

9 minutes ago, anjulibai said:

Jon, though, I also expected him to do more.

Jon protected Bran when the Nighking attacked with Viserion. Jon proved to be a capable dragon rider and somehow severely injured Viserion and somehow defeated the NK as dragon rider.

After losing his own dragon, Jon had a hard time coming back into Winterfell and got stuck in the courtyard, fighting for his life. This is very realistic. A lot was going on in the courtyards and he wanted to get through to the Godswood but simply couldn't. 

[anjulibai]

@Kajjo I hadn't thought of that about Jon contributing by being a dragonrider, but you are right, he did a lot there. 

[Bear42]

11 minutes ago, anjulibai said:

No one would have survived without the Unsullied. They held the dead back and protected the retreat. 

The dragons also were helpful in killing a large number of wights. In that respect, Dany personally did what I expected her to do, which is what she's done previously.

No one would have survived with the Unsullied either.  They merely delayed the inevitable, and then became wights themselves.  The only things that made a difference were Branbait and Arya.  Any good the dragons did was more than made up for by the damage delivered by Viserion.

11 minutes ago, anjulibai said:

Jon, though, I also expected him to do more. At least fight against the NK or some WWs (who did NOTHING for some reason). 

Agreed, I was hoping we'd see some duels with the walkers.  Then I was really hoping Jon would kill wounded Viserion with Longclaw but he just yelled at him.

 

I was really hoping it wouldn't be just one of our heroes to bring down the NK but a bunch of them.  A little teamwork to make the dream work.  Now it just seems like everyone but Arya and Bran were unnecessary.  They could've just rolled Bran into the middle of the woods and left him as bait with Arya hiding in a tree waiting to pounce.

[Amaretto]

She should have stayed in Mereen. Apparently all that was needed to defeat the WW was Bran and Arya

[Larger than Average Finger]

8 minutes ago, Amaretto said:

She should have stayed in Mereen. Apparently all that was needed to defeat the WW was Bran and Arya

Yes, and the US Marines/Navy should have stayed in San Diego, because all that was needed to defeat Japan was 2 B29's and 2 Big Bombs.

[Nightwish]

40 minutes ago, Bear42 said:

  They could've just rolled Bran into the middle of the woods and left him as bait with Arya hiding in a tree waiting to pounce.

   Haha, poor Theon, Dothraki, Unsullied, Jorah losing their lives for nothing. 

 

[Bear42]

9 minutes ago, Larger than Average Finger said:

Yes, and the US Marines/Navy should have stayed in San Diego, because all that was needed to defeat Japan was 2 B29's and 2 Big Bombs.

Except those two bombs were a knockout punch after a series of hard fought victories, not a hail mary from their own endzone. 

 

I'm not saying that the forces Dany brought did nothing, I'm saying they changed nothing.  Imagine there were never Dothraki, Unsullied, or dragons (for either side) in the equation.  The living still hole up in Winterfell, hopelessly outnumbered, and deploy their desperate plan to kill the NK using Bran as bait.  Same thing.  Maybe the wights reach the Godswood in a few less minutes, big deal.

 

There was never a moment where it looked like the army of the living had a hope of victory despite having the Dothraki, Unsullied, and dragons.  It didn't even seem like they even made a dent.  The wights could've killed Bran 100 times over if they had wanted to while they stood surrounding him so its not like stalling made a difference.  The AoTD were rolling towards a convincing victory, the dragons were out of commission, the walkers hadn't lifted a finger, and the NK was unscathed.  The living could've lost this same way with half the forces, or a tenth, or just twenty good men.

 

It would've made way more sense for the army of the living to be putting up a good fight thanks to Dany's army/dragons, forcing the NK to take a risk and go for Bran for fear that he might actually lose, and then activate the trap having Hot Pie plaster him in the face with a fresh pastry before killing the NK revealing himself to be Azor Ahai reborn.

[Rose of Red Lake]

Yeah it was mostly hype. I could see that coming from a mile away. People were treating her like she's the Savior of Humanity for way too long, when girl just really wants her throne and to have sex with Jon. Her biggest contribution was saving Jon, who didn't do much either. I love that the two Targaryens kind of just...fizzled. That's a good twist IMO. 

[MinscS2]

4 minutes ago, Rose of Red Lake said:

Yeah it was mostly hype. I could see that coming from a mile away. People were treating her like she's the Savior of Humanity for way too long, when girl just really wants her throne and to have sex with Jon. Her biggest contribution was saving Jon, who didn't do much either. I love that the two Targaryens kind of just...fizzled. That's a good twist IMO. 

Except for the fact that they, you know, knocked the NK of Viserion, allowing Arya to actually be able to kill him.

Remove Jon and Daenerys (and their dragons ofc) from this fight, and the NK would've won and everyone at WF would've died.
(Ironically, the same can be said about a number of characters; Mel, Beric and The Hound to name a few.)

[Rose of Red Lake]

1 minute ago, MinscS2 said:

Except for the fact that they, you know, knocked the NK of Viserion, allowing Arya to actually be able to kill him.

Remove Jon and Daenerys (and their dragons ofc) from this fight, and the NK would've won and everyone at WF would've died.
(Ironically, the same can be said about a number of characters; Mel, Beric and The Hound to name a few.)

A small contribution in proportion to the hype though. Savior of Humanity, everyone thought she would do it ALL and that they were LOST without her. It was just funny how that played out. Targaryens aren't Christ figures.

[MinscS2]

9 minutes ago, Rose of Red Lake said:

A small contribution in proportion to the hype though. Savior of Humanity, everyone thought she would do it ALL and that they were LOST without her. 

Please, find me a number of quotes on this forum where people claim this. I'll wait. 
(And they would've lost without her armies and dragons. This was a team effort, and just because Arya killed the NK doesn't make all other contributions meaningless.)

[Hodor's Dragon]

9 minutes ago, MinscS2 said:

Please, find me a number of quotes on this forum where people claim this. I'll wait. 
(And they would've lost without her armies and dragons. This was a team effort, and just because Arya killed the NK doesn't make all other contributions meaningless.)

Don't hold your breath, people using straw-man arguments have weak or unsupported positions and aren't prepared to use actual argument and logic. Depend on it. 

[Bear42]

3 minutes ago, MinscS2 said:

Except for the fact that they, you know, knocked the NK of Viserion, allowing Arya to actually be able to kill him.

He only had a dragon because Daenerys brought him one.  You don't get points for solving problems you yourself created.

9 minutes ago, MinscS2 said:

Remove Jon and Daenerys (and their dragons ofc) from this fight, and the NK would've won and everyone at WF would've died.
(Ironically, the same can be said about a number of characters; Mel, Beric and The Hound to name a few.)

The NK was winning, handily.  Everyone in Winterfell was about to die.  Arya killed the NK during his victory lap, the battle was already lost.  Dany's army and dragons were just a speed bump at best, I guess you could argue that they were an essential speed bump but that's it.

 

I'm just saying if you take a step back and imagine Dany never left Dragonstone the outcome of the battle wouldn't have looked very different, just would've happened a little faster.

[Rose of Red Lake]

4 minutes ago, MinscS2 said:

Please, find me a number of quotes on this forum where people claim this. I'll wait. 
(And they would've lost without her armies and dragons. This was a team effort, and just because Arya killed the NK doesn't make all other contributions meaningless.)

Oh please there has been so much savior talk on these forums and elsewhere. For years people were debating whether Jon or Dany are THE main savior-heroes who fulfill the prophecy, and that no one else in the world could save people. In show this was the hype too. Through the Red Priests in Essos hyping up Daenerys, the PrincESS who was Promised, Tyrion saying without her they're all lost, and Jon thinking they can't win without her. Soaring music whenever she burns people or when dragons are on screen was also used to create the image that she alone is the world's hero. This applies for Jon too. LOL misdirect. 

[Rose of Red Lake]

1 minute ago, Bear42 said:

He only had a dragon because Daenerys brought him one.  You don't get points for solving problems you yourself created.

29 minutes ago, MinscS2 said:

Yes, good point she was just cleaning up the mess she created. 

[MinscS2]

@Bear42 Yes obviously if we had a rewind button, then this whole mess could've been avoided back in S7 if someone had slapped Tyrion after he came up with his wight-hunt idea.

Given the situation that did arise though, the dragons where very much required in order to defeat the NK.