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Obsidian Knight

Cersei's Army

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Where did Cersei exactly buy her sellswords from? Could it be possible that Daario Naharis appears and fights for Cersei to betray her in the end? :ph34r: Or maybe he will betray Dany when he sees that she's with another man.

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Cersei bought the Golden Company. They're a famous sellsword comapny from Essos. Daario is the captain of the Second Sons.

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I'm surprised she hasn't sent for the second sons.  They would make a good difference. I guess she still wants Mereen to not fall back into slavery but it makes sense to rebuild her army with Dario's troops.

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21 minutes ago, Euron III Greyjoy said:

She sent Euron to buy the Golden Company from Essos. Personally I think the Golden Company will end up betraying Cersei in favor of Daenerys or Jon. 

I'm not sure that will actually happen in the show-verse. The theory does have book-verse support though, so maybe it will. The Golden Company has never broken a contract in the book till it broke the contract with Myr to join Aegon(fake) Tragaryen.

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29 minutes ago, Bran Snow said:

I'm not sure that will actually happen in the show-verse. The theory does have book-verse support though, so maybe it will. The Golden Company has never broken a contract in the book till it broke the contract with Myr to join Aegon(fake) Tragaryen.

That's the reason I thought it might happen in the show, to give a little nod to the books. It would be cool to see the Golden Company break a contract with Cersei to join with Aegon Targaryen (Jon Snow).

Though I also had big hopes for episode 3, and that ended up being pretty bad, so I also wouldn't be surprised if the Golden Company on the show was just a plot device to make Cersei look more powerful, just how like they have made Euron Greyjoy Cersei's one dimensional bitch. 

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7 hours ago, Obsidian Knight said:

Where did Cersei exactly buy her sellswords from? Could it be possible that Daario Naharis appears and fights for Cersei to betray her in the end? :ph34r: Or maybe he will betray Dany when he sees that she's with another man.

Braavos, they are the Golden company, not the Second Sons. It seems unlikely, and far-fetched that Daario would be there, although I'd like to see him again.

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There is obviously gonna be a battle, but if you think about it logically there is no need for one. All they'd have to do is kill Cersei. Her new army isn't loyal to her, they are loyal to whoever pays their bills. If Cersei dies, there's no need for a battle, no one will be paying her army so they won't fight for her. Daenerys and Jon may not have much of an army left but at least they are loyal. 

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Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, Euron III Greyjoy said:

She sent Euron to buy the Golden Company from Essos. Personally I think the Golden Company will end up betraying Cersei in favor of Daenerys or Jon. 


I can totally see that happening too. In fact, I'll be pretty surprised if it doesn't, given the story arcs of the major characters and how they amassed their power, and some themes that have been there from the beginning.

The major major weak point in Cersei's power and army strength is the fact that it has been bought. (and she didn't even get the elephants that she ordered)

Compare that to...

Jon Snow...

  • Chosen to lead the Nights Watch, even though he was relatively inexperienced and new, he was the leader they wanted.
  • The freefolk chose to follow him.
  • Chosen to be King in the North, when he had no claim to the title, nor asked for it - he was the one they rallied behind

Danaerys:- 

  • Chosen by The Dothraki because they believed in her.
  • Chosen by the Unsullied, who had been given their freedom, but rallied behind her instead.
  • Chosen by the people of Astapor, Yunkai and Mereen
     

Basically, things go well for Dany when she gives people a real freedom to choose, and they choose her.
Things don't go so well for her when she tries to control & force it...
Her dragons were an early instance of this - She tried to control them by putting them in chains, and they became weakened...  but when allowed their freedom, then they became useful allies and grew strong.

She's also had an attitude shift since meeting Jon Snow... her attitude of entitlement to rule has come more to the forefront, with her demands of "bend the knee" being soooo very different to the approach she had used before to gain support.
An entitlement that has gotten darker & more Cersei-esque as time has gone on, such as House Tarly getting incinerated. Its a million miles from the Danaerys we saw winning hearts and minds in Essos... In Essos she gave people reasons to make a conscious choice to follow her with open eyes... In Westeros, she's expecting blind allegiance from people who really don't know anything about her, other than her bloodline. 

Even Greyworm and Missandei are making plans to scoot off soon... her two most loyal followers from Essos feeling like this new world she's building isn't for them.

There's got to be a moment where she realises the "bend the knee" attitude simply isn't working for her - it didn't win over the North. Hasn't even managed to convince Sansa, who has trust & loyalty for Jon, that his choice in ruler is the right one. Arya thinks Sansa is being smart here, and Arya never thought Sansa smart before!

I suspect Dany's gonna get more entitled, her advisors are going to become more critical of her, with Varys and Tyrion wondering how to get her to see sense...
I think Vary's is going to remind us of that episode where she told him that if he's ever critical of how she is ruling her people, to tell her rather than betray her, or else she'll burn him alive.... So, I predict he's either gonna try telling her, and get burned alive. Or he'll try telling her, get ignored, and then betrays her & gets burned alive.

And that's gonna be a pivotal moment for Danaerys story arc... Maybe Varys' voice coming from the flames will say something that will chill everyone to the bone... something that is gonna haunt her the way that Vary's was haunted by another voice in the flames all those years ago... and would be a nice full-circle moment for Varys... 

Maybe it'll be the moment that she recognises she's not the one to rule the seven kingdoms... that her sense of entitlement to rule is no different from the entitlement that Cersei embodies...
...brittle power that's built on fear, money, cruelty... as opposed to the loyalty, trust or belief in her as a leader that she inspired before (& that Jon has never not inspired, in spite of not wanting to lead)


So I reckon she needs to go back to being inspiring Dany to get  the Golden Company to join her... 
... so its more likely they will switch allegiance for Jon. 
And their allegiance switch underlines that overall theme of GOT, that true power cannot be bought, nor forced... that loyalty can only come out of having the freedom to choose in the first place.

One thing... do we know how much of the Lannister army is left? Are they likely to switch allegiance to following Jaime, since he fought beside them and he's as much of a Lannister as she is.

((**edited to add...
Ooh maybe the voice that Vary's heard in the flames was his own last words as he's torched by Dany's dragon, and that's why it spooked him so much, and why its been kept a mystery)

Edited by Figdoni

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2 hours ago, NonoNono said:

All Tyrion has to do is double their price.

What's he going to outbid the Iron Bank with? Promises of the gold that isn't in his family's mines, or promises of the gold that isn't in King's Landing's coffers?

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4 hours ago, Euron III Greyjoy said:

That's the reason I thought it might happen in the show, to give a little nod to the books. It would be cool to see the Golden Company break a contract with Cersei to join with Aegon Targaryen (Jon Snow).

Though I also had big hopes for episode 3, and that ended up being pretty bad, so I also wouldn't be surprised if the Golden Company on the show was just a plot device to make Cersei look more powerful, just how like they have made Euron Greyjoy Cersei's one dimensional bitch. 

The reason the Golden Company broke the contract is because in the book they had previously made a secret deal with Jon Connington and Illyrio to help fAegon.

 

Since neither fAegon nor Jon Connington are in the show they are loyal to Cersei. They only even brought in the Golden Company on the show because they are a famous mercenary group and to explain Cersei having an army after her dragons destroyed a lot of it in season 7.

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18 minutes ago, Anthony Pirtle said:

What's he going to outbid the Iron Bank with? Promises of the gold that isn't in his family's mines, or promises of the gold that isn't in King's Landing's coffers?

Pretty sure the Seven Kingdoms under Jon or Dany could raise a great deal of money. Land and titles also. The most important factor however would not necessarily be the value of what is being promised vs the Iron Bank's offers but not having to fight two fully grown dragons. But this being the show they'll probably view that as no big deal just like Randyll Tarly and be content to march off to die for the usurping, incestous, kinslaying Queen Cersei. 

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Anthony Pirtle said:

What's he going to outbid the Iron Bank with? Promises of the gold that isn't in his family's mines, or promises of the gold that isn't in King's Landing's coffers?

Peace, which is needed to collect taxes, and more importantly, something Cersei can't offer: not blowing up King's Landing.

33 minutes ago, The One Who Kneels said:

Pretty sure the Seven Kingdoms under Jon or Dany could raise a great deal of money. Land and titles also. The most important factor however would not necessarily be the value of what is being promised vs the Iron Bank's offers but not having to fight two fully grown dragons. But this being the show they'll probably view that as no big deal just like Randyll Tarly and be content to march off to die for the usurping, incestous, kinslaying Queen Cersei. 

The Iron Bank won't want anyone with dragons.

Edited by NonoNono

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The Golden Company are mostly made up of exiles from Westeros, aren’t they? (Including Targaryen loyalists and distant cousins), but still regard themselves as Westerosi.

I guess they can offer them freedom to return to Westeros... and there’s plenty of empty land and houses now that there’s been a bit of a population reduction up North.

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Posted (edited)

Also, it’s possible that Cersei’s Mad Queen tactics will horrify them enough that they will break contract for the first time... and we’ve already seen her wildfire aerys burn them all streak, that level of crazy was enough to turn kingsguard into kingslayer before... it’ll surely be enough to make them pass on a sellsword agreement where loyalty has no depth

Edited by Figdoni

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20 minutes ago, NonoNono said:

Peace, which is needed to collect taxes, and more importantly, something Cersei can't offer: not blowing up King's Landing.

The Iron Bank won't want anyone with dragons.

Well that's fine and there are lots of ways they could go about dealing with that situation (Faceless Men for instance) but my point was realistically it doesn't make sense that any amount of gold would induce mercenaries to go up against dragons unaided. Gold isn't worth anything if you aren't alive to see it. This basic logic has even been seen in the show itself when Bronn refused to go up against the Mountain and Stannis' mercenaries all deserted him. It's not even that the effectiveness of dragons is something that has been lost to history Daenerys has used hers twice in the show in well known engagements once to defeat an entire fleet unaided and another time to crush the Tarly/Lannister army. 

By any measure the Golden Company should want to abandon Cersei as soon as possible. 

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, The One Who Kneels said:

Well that's fine and there are lots of ways they could go about dealing with that situation (Faceless Men for instance) but my point was realistically it doesn't make sense that any amount of gold would induce mercenaries to go up against dragons unaided. Gold isn't worth anything if you aren't alive to see it. This basic logic has even been seen in the show itself when Bronn refused to go up against the Mountain and Stannis' mercenaries all deserted him. It's not even that the effectiveness of dragons is something that has been lost to history Daenerys has used hers twice in the show in well known engagements once to defeat an entire fleet unaided and another time to crush the Tarly/Lannister army. 

By any measure the Golden Company should want to abandon Cersei as soon as possible. 

They have what they need to kill the dragons (wounded dragons too). And they have the city Dany is trying to take as hostage. They’re in a pretty good spot.

If Dany puts the life of the people if KL at risk instead of backing off to Dragonstone, she will be “the queen of ashes”.

Edited by NonoNono

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Posted (edited)

Baelish stated in an early episode, that "the price to hire the Faceless Men to kill a merchant is twice that of hiring an army of sellswords, and the price to kill a princess would be even higher."
Arya is a qualified faceless assassin... Jaqar congratulated her on becoming 'no-one' before she told him No, she was Arya Stark of Winterfell... and he just watched/allowed her to leave... But if she's still "No-one" in the eyes of the Faceless men, she can potentially earn double for the Iron bank what Cersei is spending on the Golden Company, with just one hit. And there's the theory that the Iron Bank and the Faceless Men are connected/two heads of the same organisation... which makes sense since "no-one" has no need for money, but the Iron Bank have a lot of it from somewhere.

So all she has to do is promise to 'do a job' for the Iron Bank.
Maybe they'll commission her to kill Dany....  :o

Edited by Figdoni

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2 hours ago, NonoNono said:

Peace, which is needed to collect taxes, and more importantly, something Cersei can't offer: not blowing up King's Landing.

Mercenaries aren't particularly interested in peace. It's bad for business.

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